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Letter 9

Meltintalle
(@mel)
Member Moderator

1. "Never forget that when we are dealing with any pleasure in its healthy and normal and satisfying form, we are, in a sense, on the Enemy's ground." emphasis added Is this true, or is Screwtape trying to avoid an uncomfortable truth?

2. Screwtape writes, "It all depends on whether your man is of the desponding type who can be tempted to despair, or of the wishful-thinking type who can be assured that all is well. The former type is getting rare among the humans." Which type to you think is more prevalent in society? Do you think the desponding type is getting rare?

3. "A moderated religion is as good for us as no religion at all--and more amusing." What clues has Screwtape given us as to his reasoning behind the last comment?

We have hands that fashion and heads that know,
But our hearts we lost - how long ago! -- G. K. Chesterton

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Topic starter Posted : January 24, 2012 3:45 am
Pattertwigs Pal
(@twigs)
Member Moderator

1. "Never forget that when we are dealing with any pleasure in its healthy and normal and satisfying form, we are, in a sense, on the Enemy's ground." emphasis added Is this true, or is Screwtape trying to avoid an uncomfortable truth?

I think it is true. The key words are "in its healthy and normal and satisfying form." They are dealing with what God created. Of course they can pervert it so it is hardly recognizable.


NW sister to Movie Aristotle & daughter of the King

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Posted : January 26, 2012 12:50 pm
ValiantArcher
(@valiantarcher)
BC Head and G&B Mod Moderator

1. I would say it is true. God has given us a number of pleasures and desires that are in and of themselves good, but when used improperly are sinful. Unless you're asking about the "in a sense" part, in which case I am a little confused about the question. ;))

2. I do think that, in general, the wishful-thinking type are more prevalent in society. Even if people don't always going around saying that things are well, many people act like it's all okay, at least in day-to-day life. Sure, there are always people who tend to despair (I think I know some of them), but I think there are more people who find it easier to assume that everything will turn up okay in the end no matter what we do (I kind of lean toward this myself, though I do know that since it's all in God's hands, it will indeed end well ;))).

3. In a moderated religion, you don't experience the troughs but you also don't experience the peaks. Unchanging life and experiences can be very boring and easy---growth in grace, however painful, is good for us. In this sort of thing, doing nothing usually means you're actually sinking. ;))

Death is swallowed up in victory.

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Posted : February 12, 2012 10:39 am
Eustace
(@eustace)
NarniaWeb Junkie

2. Screwtape writes, "It all depends on whether your man is of the desponding type who can be tempted to despair, or of the wishful-thinking type who can be assured that all is well. The former type is getting rare among the humans." Which type to you think is more prevalent in society? Do you think the desponding type is getting rare?

I think the hopeful type is in the society more. A lot of people have a lot of wishful thinking. They also tend to have a lot of movies and whole themes in the media based on ''wishing on a star'' and things of that sort. Yes, I think it is true that the desponding type is rare.

3. "A moderated religion is as good for us as no religion at all--and more amusing." What clues has Screwtape given us as to his reasoning behind the last comment?

People who are lukewarm are not Christians but say they are and don't act like it. Which confuses the non'-Christians who think they are Christians. It also causes a lot of problems for the Christians in general.

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Posted : June 9, 2012 10:54 am
Ithilwen
(@ithilwen)
NarniaWeb Zealot

"Never forget that when we are dealing with any pleasure in its healthy and normal and satisfying form, we are, in a sense, on the Enemy's ground." emphasis added Is this true, or is Screwtape trying to avoid an uncomfortable truth?

You mean that he doesn't want to admit it's fully on the enemy's ground? Could be.

Screwtape writes, "It all depends on whether your man is of the desponding type who can be tempted to despair, or of the wishful-thinking type who can be assured that all is well. The former type is getting rare among the humans." Which type to you think is more prevalent in society? Do you think the desponding type is getting rare?

I think the despairing type is either getting rarer or learning to keep their opinions to themselves, now that the "positive thinking" movement is so popular. And if people try to be positive about everything... I can definitely see that being used in a bad way in some cases. ;)

"A moderated religion is as good for us as no religion at all--and more amusing." What clues has Screwtape given us as to his reasoning behind the last comment?

I think it's because if it's only a "moderated" religion, it might not be true salvation. But the patient can still have all the negative attributes people associate with religion, such as self-righteousness, etc.

~Riella =:)

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Posted : July 2, 2012 7:43 pm
narnianerd
(@assistant-lord-of-the-little-ponies)
NarniaWeb Guru

1. God has created things for us humans to enjoy but if we use them wrongly then Satan has won, for example; guns can be fun. You can shoot them at a shooting range or even go hunting with them. But we can also use them to poach, rob and murder, which we go to jail for.

2. I believe that the wishful thinking type is much more prevalent. Especially in America where the whole system is built around the premiss that things will get better in the future, the American Dream. Stuff like that.

3. My youth pastor put it like this.

"If everyone in the world was to judge Christianity by how you live, would they see a new hope or would they see the same old empire? Would they be convicted to join the side of the light... sabers or would they stick with the blasters?"

I love my youth pastor. :P

If you ain't first, you're last.

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Posted : July 3, 2012 10:21 am
7chronicles
(@7chronicles)
NarniaWeb Guru

1. "Never forget that when we are dealing with any pleasure in its healthy and normal and satisfying form, we are, in a sense, on the Enemy's ground." emphasis added Is this true, or is Screwtape trying to avoid an uncomfortable truth?

I beilve God created pleasures for us to enjoy.
Like eating, even though we have to eat, I think God wanted it to be pleasurable to us.
To enjoy different flavors and to have fun creating new foods.
But we can also overdo it and cause harm to ourselves.
Something God never wanted. :)

The Value of myth is that it takes all the things you know and restores to them the rich significance which has been hidden by the veil of familiarity. C.S. Lewis

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Posted : July 3, 2012 1:24 pm
Movie Aristotle
(@risto)
NarniaWeb Junkie

1. Pleasure is good. Making pleasure an idol is bad.

[quote="The Screwtape Letters, Letter IX":3vhpwc67]All we can do is to encourage the humans to take the pleasures which our Enemy has produced, at times, or in ways, or in degrees, which He has forbidden.

God has a plan for us, and a plan to bless us. He even has a plan for pleasure, and we must be diligent not to step outside of His will. Otherwise we are prone to an "ever increasing craving for an ever diminishing pleasure". God brings true pleasure. The further we step away from God, the less true pleasure we will know.

2. I think this is a tough one. I think maybe the world changed a bit during the Cold War era and the "desponding" type made a come-back. It might be making a come-back again thanks to economic worries. I suppose the wishful-thinking type is more prevalent though.

3. I'm not sure I understand the question, but putting limits on your relationship with God is certainly a bad idea. Some people let their political beliefs limit their spiritual beliefs. It should be the other way around. Decide your worldview first and then let that determine your actions. It seems that if you don't, you are prone to being a slave to fashions.

Does any of that make sense?

Movie Aristotle, AKA Risto

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Posted : July 15, 2012 6:29 pm
Pattertwigs Pal
(@twigs)
Member Moderator

Does any of that make sense?

*not sure if that was retorical or not but answers anyway ;)) *. All of it made sense to me.

2. Screwtape writes, "It all depends on whether your man is of the desponding type who can be tempted to despair, or of the wishful-thinking type who can be assured that all is well. The former type is getting rare among the humans." Which type to you think is more prevalent in society? Do you think the desponding type is getting rare? I know I am much more of the desponding type than the wishful thinking type. I think there is a fair mixture. Suicide is the 10th leading cause of death in the U.S so there must be a significant amount of people who tend to be desponding.

3. "A moderated religion is as good for us as no religion at all--and more amusing." What clues has Screwtape given us as to his reasoning behind the last comment?
Well, he talks about moderation in all things (which interestingly enough is wisdom from the ancient Greeks and under Screwtape's theory it ought not be used any more because of the historical point of view). He wouldn't want religion to take up too much of a patient's time because then the battle would be almost won.


NW sister to Movie Aristotle & daughter of the King

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Posted : July 23, 2012 2:37 pm
Varnafinde
(@varna)
Princess of the Noldor and Royal Overseer of the Talk About Narnia forum Moderator

1. "Never forget that when we are dealing with any pleasure in its healthy and normal and satisfying form, we are, in a sense, on the Enemy's ground." emphasis added Is this true, or is Screwtape trying to avoid an uncomfortable truth?

We are definitely "on the Enemy's ground". The pleasure in that form is His invention and shows His generousness. The devil only wants to steal, murder and destroy, to "get the man's soul and give him nothing in return".

3. "A moderated religion is as good for us as no religion at all--and more amusing." What clues has Screwtape given us as to his reasoning behind the last comment?

I think some it is the observation of one's own emotions, and using that to judge what is too much and what is excessive. And to hold back from the excessive might also mean holding back from Screwtape's Enemy, which is what Screwtape is after.


(avi artwork by Henning Janssen)

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Posted : July 31, 2012 6:03 pm
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