Forum

Share:
Notifications
Clear all

Letter 2

Page 2 / 2
wolfloversk
(@wolfloversk)
The Wandering, Wild & Welcoming Winged Wolf Hospitality Committee

1. What do you think of Screwtape as a narrator so far? Is there any particular point you can point to as defining his character? Do you have an equally clear picture of Wormwood?

Screwtape makes for an intresting narrator, its different that you find yourself wanting the main characters to fail at what they are trying to accomplish.

2. Screwtape advises Wormwood on how to use the church to reclaim his newly converted patient. What value, if any, does this letter have for Christians who have been Christians for a long time? Can they learn something about themselves from this letter?

I think it warns us not to be hypocritical, and to make sure we set good examples for new Christians and non-Christians so we don't turn them away. I know lots of people who've been turned away because of the hypocracies of the church goers.

3. Screwtape talks about the Enemy allowing disappointment during the beginning of every human endeavour and how the Enemy “refuses to carry them, by their mere affections and habits, to any of the goals which He sets before them” and “leaves them to ‘do it on their own’” What does Screwtape mean by this? Is he correct or is he only seeing part of the picture?

I don't think he's seeing all of it, God doesn't give us more than we can handle and while he sets us through trials to make us stronger he still keeps an eye on us and is ready to help if we should need us. He does want us to exercise our free-will however, and he will not force us to follow the right path, we have to do that on our own. But he still is there to guide us.

"The mountains are calling and I must go, and I will work on while I can, studying incessantly." -John Muir
"Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed." -Richard Adams, Watership Down

ReplyQuote
Posted : July 5, 2012 7:26 am
Narnian_Archer
(@narnian_archer)
NarniaWeb Junkie

2. Screwtape advises Wormwood on how to use the church to reclaim his newly converted patient. What value, if any, does this letter have for Christians who have been Christians for a long time? Can they learn something about themselves from this letter?

I think this point is extremely valuable for long-time Christians. It's quite appalling how un-Christian we can get by trying to be so "Christian". So often we stray from the simple love of Christ to a hypocritical and very proud attitude that reflects anything but what Christianity is all about. I was actually pretty shaken by this letter in particular about some points in my own life where I was being very ungodly while trying to be so much better than everyone around me, and it reminded my about how much love and compassion we as Christians ought to show to those who are new to the faith, or who don't even believe at all. It doesn't matter what a person believes, we are still supposed to show them love and courtesy and reflect Jesus in whatever we do. :)

ValiantArcher,

I also appreciated Screwtape's distinction between the Invisible Church (the one that spans all of time, containing only believers) and the Visible Church (the one that we see, often containing both believers and unbelievers). Often when we think of the Church, we do think of the building and the smaller group we meet and worship with on Sundays (and how things there can annoy us) rather than the full Bride of Christ and how glorious it is.

That's a very good point and I absolutely agree with you! :) :)


sig by Sheroo of Stormness Head
avatar by me
Member of the Dragon club. PM Narnia Girl or FFJ to join.
RL sibling to De_De and wild rose

ReplyQuote
Posted : July 15, 2012 7:57 am
Lady Courage
(@lady-courage)
NarniaWeb Guru

1. Screwtape is engaging, intelligent and in a twisted way, endearingly cunning. He is charismatic, but never once does one forget that he is evil. It's interesting that everything he says you kinda have to read backwards to really "get". Actually, because he can be such a handful to "translate", I'm really, really glad the letters are so short. ;)) I can go back and reread the letter easily, but I'm still left with a lot to think about.
Wormwood is a little harder to get a picture of, but by this point certain details come to light fairly clearly. Of course, I may be a bit of a cheater on that point, because I've already read the book once before. :P But we start to get a picture of how whiny Wormwood is, and how much of a coward he tends to be. He's certainly as evil as his uncle, but he's not nearly as smart, nor does he have as much field experience. He seems ready to throw his demon hands in the air over obstacles he sees as impossible, though at least he runs to Screwtape before completely giving up. One wonders if there is anyone else he could go to, but at this point Screwtape's advice is invaluable and patient, so I suppose there's no reason to go to anyone else.

2. This I think contains really the first serious theological portion of the story.
But first off, how a human sees the church (not The Church) totally depends on how they were raised. I seriously doubt many people today actually have a glorified image of Christianity. The media makes us out to be stupid and prejudiced and they are constantly talking about and putting us down as some kind of illogical freaks. You can't get away from that image today. I think that most people see the worst side of Christianity (true and false) before they see the real deal. Therefore that specific example rather breaks down, I think, since it depends on the patient feeling that Christianity is glorious. Some of his other examples on disappointment are very relevant, just not so much this one.

Most importantly, however, are the ideas that someone can sojourn on God's side and then go back to Satan's side, and that as a saved Christian one can think he's "run up a favorable balance" in God's "ledger book" by "allowing himself to be converted".

"I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand." John 10:28

So, if a man can become, by Satan's standards, a Christian (being in God's camp) and then after a while go back to Satan's camp, John 10:28 is a lie. But God's Word is truth, and so judging by this verse and others, "coming back to Satan" is not possible, if the patient were truly saved.
One can of course argue that the patient was never truly saved and Screwtape is mistaken, which possible. I think it unlikely, because if so Screwtape would never actually know if a patient was in "the Enemy's camp" or in "His Father's house".

And also, if the patient thinks he's "run up a favorable balance" in God's "ledger book", the patient has a total misunderstanding of what being saved even is. I agree there are plenty of people who think that, and probably even many people who are truly Saved who think that. But isn't being Saved recognizing that one is not worthy and has nothing to bring to God's ledger book? Then again, sinners will always sin, even when realizing they need God.
So, I suppose what bothers me about that passage is that I'm not convinced most people who are really converted feel that way (tying into the doubt that C.S. Lewis had his theology on Saved people and going back to Satan straight), and I think someone just really needs to set that patient-boy straight. :P

3. God never gives us more than we can handle, but the main issue I have with these comments is that it goes back to whether a Saved Christian can actually loose their salvation. Screwtape calls it an opportunity, a way to reclaim a soul. Of course, much of the book begins to fall apart if one disagrees that God allows someone to "go back" after they are truly saved...
But it is true that God allows disappointment and hardships to grow and strengthen us. To become pure, we must go through the fire. And we are constantly being purified, it is part of our journey. Taking those first steps in an endeavor is just one of those ways.


Sig by me | Av by Ithilwen
There is no such thing as a Painless Lesson

ReplyQuote
Posted : July 26, 2012 4:40 pm
Narnian_Badger
(@nbadger)
Mushroom mushroom Hospitality Committee

1. What do you think of Screwtape as a narrator so far? Is there any particular point you can point to as defining his character? Do you have an equally clear picture of Wormwood?
"Readers are advised to remember that The Devil is a Liar." He is a dashedly evil sort of fellow, and that is one of the reasons he is so fascinating. Through him, Lewis is able to portray the sort of thoughts and plans that a devil might have, in a more personal way than he might've if he had chosen a more standard format for the book. Screwtape's name suits him well--his ideas are a bit like an old cassette tape that has been worn and strung out and tied together and gotten all bunched up. What is Real is still there, still known to Screwtape, but everything is so twisted and screwed that the truth comes out all wrong--but he can't keep glimpses from escaping (as we see especially later on). Wormwood is portrayed as a rather arrogant fellow, who is rather green behind the ears. He's a bit like what fantasy devils are imagined as.

2. Screwtape advises Wormwood on how to use the church to reclaim his newly converted patient. What value, if any, does this letter have for Christians who have been Christians for a long time? Can they learn something about themselves from this letter?
A lot of times one will hear something to the effect of, "I don't go to church--there's nothing but hypocrites there!" The best response to this that I've ever heard is, "That is what Church is for." It's easy to think that maybe church is all a sham, because look at all of these rotten people around you! But how horrid would it be if everyone there was perfect? If you ever found such a church, then you'd best get out: because as you know all too well, you yourself are far from perfect. "And hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick; I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners”" (Mark 2.17 NASB).

3. Screwtape talks about the Enemy allowing disappointment during the beginning of every human endeavour and how the Enemy “refuses to carry them, by their mere affections and habits, to any of the goals which He sets before them” and “leaves them to ‘do it on their own’” What does Screwtape mean by this? Is he correct or is he only seeing part of the picture?
I'd say he's sort of correct, in that Christ is not going to just let us lie in our various habits, enjoyments, and quirks. He's going to take those habits and either get rid of them (if they are bad), or take them to an entirely different, God-centered (instead of self-centered) level. Following Christ is never going to be easy when one is a human that likes to follow its own corrupt nature. However, at the same time, Screwtape misunderstands the way that Christ has us completely, and we can never be removed from His hand once He has claimed us.

youtube

ReplyQuote
Posted : July 30, 2012 7:14 pm
Varnafinde
(@varna)
Princess of the Noldor and Royal Overseer of the Talk About Narnia forum Moderator

3. Screwtape talks about the Enemy allowing disappointment during the beginning of every human endeavour and how the Enemy “refuses to carry them, by their mere affections and habits, to any of the goals which He sets before them” and “leaves them to ‘do it on their own’” What does Screwtape mean by this? Is he correct or is he only seeing part of the picture?

So far as Screwtape is correct, I think what he sees is how God doesn't carry us in such a way as to allow us to become lazy. He doesn't stop us from doing wrong things, he allows us our freedom - but we must then take the consequences. His will for us is to have us learn to go the best way towards those goals that he sets before us.

But leaving us to do it on our own doesn't mean that he leaves us alone. And when we need to be carried because life is too hard, he will carry us.

Perhaps Screwtape doesn't understand the difference. He seems (in later letters ;) ) not to be able to understand God's love. He has, after all, being a fallen angel, deliberately turned away from it.


(avi artwork by Henning Janssen)

ReplyQuote
Posted : July 31, 2012 2:27 pm
Page 2 / 2
Share: