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Father Time, A Star?

The Rose-Tree Dryad
(@rose)
Secret Garden Agent Moderator

I was flipping through The Silver Chair earlier today, and something occurred to me:

And here, filling almost the whole length of [the cave], lay an enormous man fast asleep. He was far bigger than any of the giants, and his face was not like a giant's, but noble and beautiful. His breast rose and fell gently under the snowy beard which covered him to the waist. A pure, silver light (no-one saw where it came from) rested upon him.

Compare this description to that of Ramandu in The Voyage of the Dawn Treader:

Slowly the door opened again and out there came a figure as tall and straight as the girl's but not so slender. It carried no light but light seemed to come from it. As it came nearer, Lucy saw that it was like an old man. His silver beard came down to his bare feet in front and his silver hair hung down to his heels behind and his robe appeared to be made from the fleece of silver sheep. He looked so mild and grave that once more all the travellers rose to their feet and stood in silence.

Don't these two descriptions have a rather similar vibe? Not only the light that comes from them, but their long beards and the hallowed atmosphere about them.

I suppose, though, if Father Time were a star, he would be one of the supergiants. Grin It's funny, because for ages I can remember knowing about the theory that millions of years from now the sun (a star) will grow so large it will eventually engulf Earth, but I don't know if that was talked about in Lewis's time. (Considering that Father Time plays a critical role in the destruction of Narnia in The Last Battle.)

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Topic starter Posted : June 19, 2020 5:32 pm
Col Klink
(@col-klink)
NarniaWeb Junkie

For some reason, I think of Father Time as being somehow the same "species" as Father Christmas. There's not any textual evidence of that though. It's just a hunch of mine.

I never really got the impression he was a star but there's no reason he couldn't be.

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Posted : June 19, 2020 6:43 pm
The Rose-Tree Dryad
(@rose)
Secret Garden Agent Moderator
 
Interestingly, Coriakin isn't described as having that curious light about him, which makes me wonder if that was "extinguished" because of the unknown crime that left him in charge of the Dufflepuds. If Father Time is a Star, he is a Star truly, deeply at rest, and not punished, it would seem.
 
It's kind of hard to imagine that Lewis wouldn't have thought about the Star connection when writing that description of Father Time in SC, when he had just been writing about Stars in VDT, but then again, he wrote about a dryad singing a verse to young Reepicheep in VDT just after writing PC when all of the dryads were asleep for 1,300 years until Aslan woke them up. Wink

 

Posted by: @col-klink

For some reason, I think of Father Time as being somehow the same "species" as Father Christmas. There's not any textual evidence of that though. It's just a hunch of mine.

I think that makes some intuitive sense, given that we refer to Father Time in our world, too (though the concept of him being an actual person is not nearly as prevalent as Father Christmas/Santa Claus being an actual person).

I think I have always grouped Father Christmas more so with the Greek characters, though... although as I think about it now, part of me wonders if Father Time is maybe the Narnian equivalent of the Greek god Cronos, the father of Zeus who was imprisoned in a deep abyss (!) called Tartarus and usually depicted as carrying a scythe or a sickle, which our depictions of Father Time also often include.

Cronos was an awful, terrible god, though, and Narnia's Father Time seems far too holy and noble to be associated with him... but perhaps Cronos is a "pagan nightmare" and Lewis intended Father Time to be the real thing that is both fearsome and good (if that makes sense). Similarly, the Greek characters that appear in Narnia are quite wild but a lot nicer than many of the myths about them would indicate.

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Topic starter Posted : June 20, 2020 2:12 pm
KingEdTheJust
(@kingedthejust)
NarniaWeb Nut

I recently found this quote in Last Battle: 

"Then the great giant raised a horn to his mouth. They could see this by the change of the black shape he made against the stars. After that — quite a bit later, because sound travels so slowly — they heard the
sound of the horn: high and terrible, yet of a strange, deadly beauty.Immediately the sky became full of shooting stars. Even one shooting star is a fine thing to see; but these were dozens, and then
scores, and then hundreds, till it was like silver rain: and it went on and on." 

The way that Father Time can almost lower the stars to the ground, may mean that he is a star. In a way it is almost like the horn is playing a special tune, or language that only the stars can understand. Even Aslan did not do it himself. Maybe it is his way of letting Father Time connect with his species. 

Yet you could think of it another way, how Father Time is leading the Stars down from their place in the sky, leading them to their doom. It's a two-sided perspective. 

"But even a traitor may mend. I have known one that did." - (King Edmund the Just, Horse and his Boy)

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Posted : June 1, 2021 6:26 pm
SonofStone
(@sonofstone)
NarniaWeb Regular

      Great ideas y'all! When pretraining to this theory, I generally (when I first read the books) grouped all the unique characters in Narnia as almost a race of their own. What I mean by that is I think that when it comes down to it, I think the only stars are the ones mentioned and maybe the Hermit of the Southern March (we can go both ways on him). I always thought that many of the 'stranger' people (i.e. Father Christmas, Father Time etc.) are a group of Aslan's servants that have special jobs and/or are more so powerful than the rest. Similar to how Gothmog is a Balrog, but he is more than just a normal Balrog. Does that make any sense? Tell me if I am nuts guys!

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Posted : June 1, 2021 6:52 pm
High King Pete The Magnificent
(@highkingpete)
NarniaWeb Nut

You are @sonofstone ! only in that the Hermit is obviously royalty LOL

But in seriousness, I really like your theory. It seems as if being predestined to come into Narnia, and having a special job like Father Time, Santa and even the humans who come to Narnia, the individual is in a league of their own.

Reminds me of the quote from Prince Caspian "But the air of Narnia had been working upon him ever since they arrived on the island, and all his old battles came back to him, and his arms and fingers remembered their old skill." - How They Left the Island, Prince Caspian

None of the other humans from other countries, such as the Calormenes or Archenlanders, seemed to posses a special strength or skill to continue on, other than the humans Aslan had ordained. Seems to support the fact, that if chosen by Aslan, the person would exhibit great abilities, and stand in their category within their respective species. 

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Posted : June 1, 2021 8:26 pm
KingEdTheJust
(@kingedthejust)
NarniaWeb Nut
Posted by: @highkingpete

Seems to support the fact, that if chosen by Aslan, the person would exhibit great abilities, and stand in their category within their respective species.

Yes! In the Father Time example, he is only mentioned as having the job to wake at the end of Narnia, even in the silver Chair. Even the Pevensies are chosen to rule Narnia, and to lead Narnia to peace and Goodness. Yet they were also there to be redeemed and cherish time with Aslan. However, every character has more than what Aslan chooses them to do, right? So maybe Father Time had the ability to be a star as well as awake at the end of the world. Smile  

 

"But even a traitor may mend. I have known one that did." - (King Edmund the Just, Horse and his Boy)

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Posted : June 1, 2021 8:38 pm
Cleander
(@the-mad-poet-himself)
NarniaWeb Guru

If he was a former king in the Overworld, I would have to agree that he had more than one job. I'm curious if he was made a king for a similar reason to Coriakin being placed over the Dufflepuds. Unless maybe his role as king is only metaphorical?!?!?!?!......

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Posted : June 1, 2021 10:20 pm
Glenwit
(@glenwit)
NarniaWeb Nut

Between Father Time and Ramandu, I'm beginning to see a pattern between tall, old bearded men and stars.

I bet Father Christmas was a star in that world too (which might also explain how Jadis' magic could keep him out). 

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Posted : June 3, 2021 10:54 am
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