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Unanswered Relationship Questions In Narnia?

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Jasmine
(@jasmine_tarkheena)
NarniaWeb Guru

Now we've got confirmation about Greta Gerwig to Write and Direct At Least 2 Narnia Films for Netflix (we still don't know which of those two will be), I was just thinking about this: there are actually a lot of questions that don't get answered in the books. Now that she's not only going to be the director but writer, she might give us some answers that we have questions about.

Here's a couple I could think of-

1. In MN, Digory mentions that his mother is ill and is about to die. He never states what disease she had. Given that the setting is during Victorian period, the illness would have been incurable. The question may be what was it? Scarlet fever, cholera?

2. In HHB, Aravis never states how her stepmother got into the picture (please, no evil stepmother stereotype from fairy tales!) I wondered it could have been arranged, as hers was about to be. It could be a given reason that Aravis's stepmother suggests that Aravis be married off to Ahoshta.

Are there any questions from the books that you would like Greta Gerwig to give answers to in the two Narnia films?

"And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me beloved."
(Emeth, The Last Battle)
https://escapetoreality.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/aslan-and-emeth2.jpg

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Topic starter Posted : July 3, 2023 9:05 pm
Courtenay
(@courtenay)
NarniaWeb Fanatic Hospitality Committee

I'm just hoping that if they do give details or outright back stories of things that aren't covered in the books, it'll be consistent with the tone of the stories themselves and won't overwhelm the narrative or take it in different directions with unnecessary sub-plots.

Regarding the illness that Digory's mother had, I've always assumed it was cancer, for which there was no effective medical treatment at that time or for decades after. That was what C.S. Lewis's own mother died of when he was only 9 — an experience he was obviously drawing on in writing MN, although he chooses to give Digory's story the happy ending that he and his own mother didn't have.

"Now you are a lioness," said Aslan. "And now all Narnia will be renewed."
(Prince Caspian)

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Posted : July 4, 2023 1:53 am
Jasmine
(@jasmine_tarkheena)
NarniaWeb Guru
Posted by: @courtenay

I'm just hoping that if they do give details or outright back stories of things that aren't covered in the books, it'll be consistent with the tone of the stories themselves and won't overwhelm the narrative or take it in different directions with unnecessary sub-plots.

As it should be. They should give us notions of what we already know and flesh them out some that could work well within the universe.

Posted by: @courtenay

Regarding the illness that Digory's mother had, I've always assumed it was cancer, for which there was no effective medical treatment at that time or for decades after. That was what C.S. Lewis's own mother died of when he was only 9 — an experience he was obviously drawing on in writing MN, although he chooses to give Digory's story the happy ending that he and his own mother didn't have.

It could have been cancer. And given that MN takes place during late Victorian period, it would have been incurable. Aunt Letty even mentions in the book, "If only there was fruit from the land of youth to make her well again."

The reason why I've brought this up is that Digory dealing with the possibility of losing his mother is a major part of the story. He even worries about her! He even wonders if Jadis went into her room, she could frightened her to death! It's the unbreakable bond between a parent and a child, and that's an important part of the story.

 

"And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me beloved."
(Emeth, The Last Battle)
https://escapetoreality.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/aslan-and-emeth2.jpg

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Topic starter Posted : July 4, 2023 10:12 am
coracle
(@coracle)
NarniaWeb's Auntie Moderator

@jasmine_tarkheena 

In MN, Digory and the rest of the household are able to visit his mother, and sit close to her. This rules out any contagious illnesses. (try googling the two you suggested).

Digory doesn't know what his mother's illness is, and so nor can we, as we are seeing it through the children's eyes. 

In HHB Aravis's father remarried. Does it matter how the second wife was introduced to him?  It's not part of the story. 

 

 

 

There, shining in the sunrise, larger than they had seen him before, shaking his mane (for it had apparently grown again) stood Aslan himself.
"...when a willing victim who had committed no treachery was killed in a traitor's stead, the Table would crack and Death itself would start working backwards."

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Posted : July 4, 2023 2:08 pm
Jasmine
(@jasmine_tarkheena)
NarniaWeb Guru

@coracle 

Right. And of course, Digory is concern about his mother. Even if a movie doesn't address what her illness is, perhaps the audience can invest in the concern as well. As I've mentioned, it's the unbreakable bond between a parent and a child.

As for Aravis's father being remarried, it could have been arranged (I think we can just speculate). Maybe just draw to your own conclusions, even if they don't address it. Aravis obviously isn't happy about the arranged marriage (and why would she be?) It could be possible that her stepmother is jealous of the attention that Aravis gets. So it might be best for the audience to draw to their own conclusions why would Aravis being married off at a young.

There are probably a lot of questions that we would sure like a movie to give answers to. Yet there are some probably some we don't need to know. In some cases, the audience might have to draw to their own conclusions.

"And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me beloved."
(Emeth, The Last Battle)
https://escapetoreality.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/aslan-and-emeth2.jpg

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Topic starter Posted : July 4, 2023 4:38 pm
Courtenay
(@courtenay)
NarniaWeb Fanatic Hospitality Committee
Posted by: @coracle

In HHB Aravis's father remarried. Does it matter how the second wife was introduced to him?  It's not part of the story. 

This is the sort of thing I meant about not going off on unneeded tangents with unnecessary sub-plots. We do need to know that Aravis is utterly miserable, that she has a very bad relationship with her stepmother and that she dearly loved her brother who has recently died in battle; it wouldn't hurt for a film version to show short cameos of her interacting with either of those family members to illustrate what her relationship with them is like. (In films, that tends to work better from a story-telling point of view than for the character to simply tell us about those people verbally.) But to get into an in-depth saga of the family history and how the stepmother came onto the scene... that's just not relevant to the plot, as she is not a major character and her only function in the story is to give Aravis an extra incentive to flee from her home and her awful circumstances.

I agree too about not knowing what illness Digory's mother has — I simply mentioned cancer because we do know that's what Lewis's mother had, so it's reasonably likely that he had that in mind when writing Digory's story. But he wisely keeps any diagnosis right out of the plot. It probably wouldn't have been discussed in front of a young boy in those days, for a start (if I recall rightly, Jack himself didn't fully know his mother was dying until the devastating blow came), and it keeps the story simple for young readers (and viewers), who don't need to know all the ins and outs of what the disease might be. They just need to know that Digory's mother is dying, that there's no medical treatment that can save her, but Digory has that great surge of hope on realising that in one of these other worlds that he can now reach with the magic rings, there might, just might, be a cure...

"Now you are a lioness," said Aslan. "And now all Narnia will be renewed."
(Prince Caspian)

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Posted : July 4, 2023 4:51 pm
Jasmine
(@jasmine_tarkheena)
NarniaWeb Guru

I agree with Courtenay that a character simply telling us about what happened verbally doesn't work as well in films. Even stuff that happens which only CS Lewis hinted at in the book could be incorporated into the narrative.

In a film, we want to feel sadness for Digory that he is about to lose his mother. Digory is obviously concern about his mother. He even wanted to be sure that she doesn't see Jadis. The audience should feel sadness that Digory is about to lose his mother, and hope that he can find something that would help cure her..

I can see that a film would have to incorporate Aravis's backstory into the narrative (not just have her tell it, but show it). We should see her unhappy about the marriage arrangement, and her relationship with her father and stepmother.

It would be nice if a film could give us answers that we have questions about. It could give us notions what we already know and flesh out some. If it done well, it could work within the universe.

"And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me beloved."
(Emeth, The Last Battle)
https://escapetoreality.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/aslan-and-emeth2.jpg

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Topic starter Posted : July 6, 2023 9:37 am
coracle
(@coracle)
NarniaWeb's Auntie Moderator

@jasmine_tarkheena that sort of 'showing instead of telling' can be done simply.

For instance one short scene where Aravis clashes with the stepmother. We see Aravis going off to talk to the old servant for sympathy, and the woman complaining loudly to her husband about Aravis and saying it's time she was married off.

There, shining in the sunrise, larger than they had seen him before, shaking his mane (for it had apparently grown again) stood Aslan himself.
"...when a willing victim who had committed no treachery was killed in a traitor's stead, the Table would crack and Death itself would start working backwards."

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Posted : July 6, 2023 2:04 pm
Jasmine
(@jasmine_tarkheena)
NarniaWeb Guru
Posted by: @coracle

For instance one short scene where Aravis clashes with the stepmother. We see Aravis going off to talk to the old servant for sympathy, and the woman complaining loudly to her husband about Aravis and saying it's time she was married off.

I can actually see that. Then we see Aravis's reaction. Then goes to kill herself, and Hwin reveals to be a talking Narnian mare! It would not only be a surprise for her, but for the audience as well.

The same goes for where Shasta is talking with Bree about his situation of being sold as a slave to Anradin Tarkaan. When Bree reveals to be a talking Narnia horse, it could be a surprise for the audience as well.

Plus, we don't even have to see how Bree and Hwin got to be in Calormen in the first place. We can just be as surprise as our main characters are when they reveal themselves to be talking Horses from Narnia.

 

"And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me beloved."
(Emeth, The Last Battle)
https://escapetoreality.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/aslan-and-emeth2.jpg

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Topic starter Posted : July 6, 2023 3:01 pm
coracle
(@coracle)
NarniaWeb's Auntie Moderator

@jasmine_tarkheena most of your examples there are really part of the story, and would need to be filmed. 

I was just talking about depicting what Aravis said about her stepmother. Scenes like this could not be lifted straight off the dialogue or narrative.

 

There, shining in the sunrise, larger than they had seen him before, shaking his mane (for it had apparently grown again) stood Aslan himself.
"...when a willing victim who had committed no treachery was killed in a traitor's stead, the Table would crack and Death itself would start working backwards."

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Posted : July 6, 2023 5:17 pm
Jasmine
(@jasmine_tarkheena)
NarniaWeb Guru

Right. It actually makes sense that depicting what Aravis said about her stepmother not being lifted straight off the dialogue or narrative.

The same could be true of any of the narrative forms that happens in the books. For instance, a PC movie obviously can't just have Trumpkin tell the Pevensies of Caspian's upbringing: they would have to show it, possibly earlier in the film. Even in a LB movie, they just can't have Poggin tell of his overhearing the secret conversation between Rishda and Ginger; they would probably have to show it (I can almost picture Rishda and Ginger as silhouette figures for dramatic effect). The same for when Emeth tells of his meeting with Aslan; a movie would probably have to show it.

"And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me beloved."
(Emeth, The Last Battle)
https://escapetoreality.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/aslan-and-emeth2.jpg

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Topic starter Posted : July 6, 2023 5:29 pm
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Col Klink
(@col-klink)
NarniaWeb Junkie

I always just imagined that for the part of the movie where Aravis tells Shasta and Bree her story, they would just show it happening in a flashback with no audible dialogue, only her voiceover. (Since the book states that the dialogue she gives the characters in her version of the story is a fancy paraphrase for dramatic effect.) That's kind of boring, I guess, but with great acting, visuals and music, it could work really well. 

For better or worse-for who knows what may unfold from a chrysalis?-hope was left behind.
-The God Beneath the Sea by Leon Garfield & Edward Blishen check out my new blog!

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Posted : July 6, 2023 5:44 pm
coracle
(@coracle)
NarniaWeb's Auntie Moderator

@col-klink I have seen this done on stage, in the Logos Theatre production. Aravis tells her story, with it acted out in a mini-scene in the middle of the stage. (I can't recall but I think it's silent).  Similarly, Prince Corin tells Shasta about his adventure when he was missing, and it is acted out in a mini scene. Delightfully done.

There, shining in the sunrise, larger than they had seen him before, shaking his mane (for it had apparently grown again) stood Aslan himself.
"...when a willing victim who had committed no treachery was killed in a traitor's stead, the Table would crack and Death itself would start working backwards."

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Posted : July 6, 2023 5:53 pm
Jasmine and Col Klink liked
Jasmine
(@jasmine_tarkheena)
NarniaWeb Guru

All really good points. So it would be idea to have Aravis narrate in V.O as she tells of her backstory. It could be done well.

The same could go for when Trumpkin tells the Pevensies of Caspian's upbringing. A movie could actually show it while he is telling of it in V.O.

Even where the Parliament of Owls tell Eustace and Jill of Prince Rilian's disappearance; it can actually be shown while the owl is telling it in V.O.

Also, where Emeth tells of his meeting with Aslan (which is my favorite scene in the series), it can be shown while he is telling of it in V.O.

So anything can be shown in a flash back while the character is telling of it in V.O.

"And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me beloved."
(Emeth, The Last Battle)
https://escapetoreality.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/aslan-and-emeth2.jpg

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Topic starter Posted : July 6, 2023 6:01 pm
coracle liked
Courtenay
(@courtenay)
NarniaWeb Fanatic Hospitality Committee

When it comes to "unanswered relationship questions", I wouldn't want a Narnia film / series to go off on any major tangents with characters who either don't play any significant role in the plot, or who've been invented for the purposes of the screen version. But I could imagine there's scope for expanding a little on the backgrounds and relationships of characters who are essential to the plot, in cases where the books don't tell us much — as long as anything added doesn't contradict what we do know for certain from the original stories.

For example, we never hear anything about Jill's background or family life at all. Perhaps she's an orphan? I wouldn't want a film to go into that in depth, since it's not essential (and not canon!), but it would just add an extra tinge of poignancy to what she's suffering at the awful boarding school, Experiment House, and to her growth as a character in general. If I were writing the script, I'd keep it very understated. Perhaps in the opening scenes of The Silver Chair when she and Eustace are hiding behind the gym from the bullies and he starts to tell her about Narnia, and she admits he's completely changed since last term, Eustace could say "My parents think I've gone barmy" — with a sigh, because he does respect his parents, even though he can now see they're overbearing snobs who didn't bring him up very well. Then Jill, still hurting and distrustful, could cut in with "At least you've got parents..." — and Eustace, realising he's hit a sore point with her, nods apologetically and turns the conversation back to this other world and how he got there.

I wouldn't throw in any further references at all or make it any more part of the plot than that, but as I said, it would add a little extra to Jill's character that gives us reason as an audience to care about her — just emphasising how alone she is in the world and how much she needs what Narnia, and Aslan, can give her. And on top of that, it would mean we aren't left wondering if Jill has parents grieving for her at the end of The Last Battle.

On that note — this isn't a relationship question as such, but while I'm on the topic of Jill, I've been thinking that if the next screen adaptation is going to do the currently fashionable thing and go for "diverse casting", Jill is the one child character from our world who could credibly be mixed-race (or otherwise "non-white"), and I wouldn't have any problem with her being cast as that. (The Pevensies are a well-off middle-class family from London in the 1940s and they'd be highly unlikely to be anything but white; Eustace as their cousin is almost certainly the same; and Digory and Polly, also being middle-class children in late Victorian London, also couldn't believably be anything other than white.) Jill, since we don't know her background, could possibly have a different ethnic ancestry from the other child characters — rare in 1940s England but not absolutely unknown — and her being visibly "different" would implicitly give the bullies at Experiment House an extra reason for targeting her.

Again, if I were writing this, I wouldn't make a big deal of that, let alone make it essential to anything in the plot — it's just another thing that could add a little more dimension to Jill's character and her situation WITHOUT contradicting or detracting from anything we definitely know from the books. And it'd be a fair nod to the genuine fact that English society of that era was only mostly white, not all white* (without, I hope, getting into the absurd current trend of period dramas making historic London look as ethnically diverse as modern London Eyeroll   D\'oh ) — and an assurance to today's viewers that being allowed into Narnia has nothing to do with one's skin colour!

Those are just a couple of thoughts, which I realise might be controversial, since as I've said, they're not canon and they're not essential to the plot at all — they're just things I've thought of that could, I think, reasonably be done without changing Jill's actual character or messing up the story.

* Which — for any fans of The Princess Bride — is absolutely no relation to being only mostly dead, not all dead. Grin ROFL Wink )

"Now you are a lioness," said Aslan. "And now all Narnia will be renewed."
(Prince Caspian)

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Posted : July 8, 2023 5:59 am
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