1. How can we interpret Orual's reaction to Psyche having "longed for death"? Is she supporting her sister as was her original goal? What is your reaction to the idea of a longing for death that is born of joy instead of despair? Is there any experience in our own lives that is similar?

It seems that Orual thinks the only reason one would long for death is if one had an unhappy life, so she fears she has somehow made Psyche very unhappy and that is what made her long for death. Not really. I don't think Orual really understood the longing for death, so she couldn't really support her sister in it. It sounds like a strange idea, but when I think about it more, it seems logical. If the good things in life come from somewhere beyond this life, it is when we enjoy them most that we most desire to be where the goodness comes from. Yes. I can't put it into words very well, but I'll try. Some days, when I look into the past, or see a lovely view, or read something beautiful in a book, I sort of get the feeling that there's something beyond the normal world, which I glimpsed for an instant before the door slammed shut. I desired to be where that beauty was. Like Psyche said 'it was when I was happiest that I longed most'. I don't know how other people might feel, though.

2. For the most part, Psyche puts a very brave face on for her impending doom. When Orual comes in and sees her being almost cheerful, it was the last thing she was prepared for. Why is Orual disturbed by the fact that Psyche is seemingly accepting and calm about her fate? Why is she more comfortable when Psyche is distressed about it?

Because it seems strange to her that anyone should accept their death so easily. Besides, she came to comfort Psyche, not to find out that she didn't really need it. Also, Orual didn't seem to like the idea that Psyche should be happy about dying and leaving her.

. Psyche repeats the Fox's words to Orual: "Today I shall meet cruel men, cowards and liars, the envious and the drunken. They will be like that because they do not know what is good from what is bad. This is an evil which has fallen upon them not upon me. They are to be pitied, not—"

Later Psyche says, "I have come to feel more and more that the Fox hasn't the whole truth. Oh, but he has much of it. It'd be dark as a dungeon within me but for his teaching."

What do you think of the Fox's teaching? What part of the truth is he missing? Does this concept of partial truth pointing the way to whole truth have any parallel in Lewis' own life, or ours?

I think it is partly true. He gets many of the answers, but not the whole answer. He gets Reason right, but he doesn't get beyond reason to faith or the gods. I think that does parallel Lewis' life in that he lived for many years with just Reason, and his reason gradually led him to God when he saw that all reasonable evidence pointed to Him.

1. How can we interpret Orual's reaction to Psyche having "longed for death"? Is she supporting her sister as was her original goal? What is your reaction to the idea of a longing for death that is born of joy instead of despair? Is there any experience in our own lives that is similar?

Orual is definitely not supporting her sister. She seems to see it as a personal betrayal. By longing for death Psyche (in Orual’s mind) is rejecting Orual. Orual is broken up that they will be parted but Psyche is saying that she has longed for death. Psyche longs for death in the way Christians should long for heaven.

2. For the most part, Psyche puts a very brave face on for her impending doom. When Orual comes in and sees her being almost cheerful, it was the last thing she was prepared for. Why is Orual disturbed by the fact that Psyche is seemingly accepting and calm about her fate? Why is she more comfortable when Psyche is distressed about it?

I think is disturbed by Psyche’s calmness because it wasn’t what she had expected and because it gives her nothing to do. Orual makes it very clear that she wanted to comfort Psyche. She wants that power over Psyche or maybe it is more that she wants to be needed. As Orual writes “What could I do but fondle and weep with her…. There was now (for me) a kind of sweetness in our misery for the first time. This was what I had come to do.”

3. Psyche repeats the Fox's words to Orual: "Today I shall meet cruel men, cowards and liars, the envious and the drunken. They will be like that because they do not know what is good from what is bad. This is an evil which has fallen upon them not upon me. They are to be pitied, not—"

Later Psyche says, "I have come to feel more and more that the Fox hasn't the whole truth. Oh, but he has much of it. It'd be dark as a dungeon within me but for his teaching."

What do you think of the Fox's teaching? What part of the truth is he missing? Does this concept of partial truth pointing the way to whole truth have any parallel in Lewis' own life, or ours?

I’m not sure what to think about Fox’s teaching. I think it is a noble attitude to pity people like that. I’m not sure I can buy that they don’t know what is good from what is bad. I think some of those people probably know what they are doing is wrong. On the other hand, they may think what they are doing is right when it really isn’t. In the context of the story, I think he is missing the part about the role the gods play. What comes to mind about Lewis’s life is the idea he had that Christian had all the truth and that all other religions were trying to get to God but didn’t make. They had some truth but not all. I’m not sure about in our lives.

1. How can we interpret Orual's reaction to Psyche having "longed for death"? Is she supporting her sister as was her original goal? What is your reaction to the idea of a longing for death that is born of joy instead of despair? Is there any experience in our own lives that is similar?

I'm not sure about Orual. I almost think she was being somewhat selfish and wanted to find Psyche in tears just so she could be the one to dry them. Whether she is or isn't, she couldn't support Psyche because she couldn't understand Psyche's longing. Even when Psyche was young she was always fascinated by the Mountain: Psyche, almost from the very beginning...was half in love with the Mountain..."When I'm big," she said, "I will be a great, great queen, married to the greatest king of all, and he will build me a castle of gold and amber up there on the very top. Chapter 2

Psyche almost reminds me of Jewel in LB. Jewel talks about coming home to his true country, the one he had always been searching for even though he didn't know it. Psyche is like that, only she does know she's searching for that country. And this one part especially reminded me of LB: ...there were other Greek masters...who have taught that death opens a door out of a little, dark room (that's all the life we've known before it) into a great, real place where the true sun shines... Chapter 7

2. For the most part, Psyche puts a very brave face on for her impending doom. When Orual comes in and sees her being almost cheerful, it was the last thing she was prepared for. Why is Orual disturbed by the fact that Psyche is seemingly accepting and calm about her fate? Why is she more comfortable when Psyche is distressed about it?

Orual is disturbed because she can't understand why anyone would want to die. She is more comfortable when Psyche is distressed because she understands it, she can cope with it.

What do you think of the Fox's teaching? What part of the truth is he missing? Does this concept of partial truth pointing the way to whole truth have any parallel in Lewis' own life, or ours?

I think Lady Haleth and Pattertwigs Pal already answered this one pretty well.

1. I think what Psyche had to say about the mountain was beautiful. It reminded me too of bits from Narnia. I think Lewis meant for her to reflect the Christian's longing for heaven.

2. I think Orual betrayed the state of her very selfish, possessive love for Psyche. She's tied her whole worth as a human being up in caring for Psyche and so when Psyche demonstrates that she really doesn't need Orual to coddle and comfort her, Orual feels threatened. She feels like she's lost the only thing that makes her important. So she reacts very negatively, almost trying to force Psyche to feel the way she wants her to feel so that she can comfort Psyche. A truly unhealthy reaction. She should have been glad that her sister wasn't afraid, instead of trying to make her afraid.

3. Psyche has learned reason from the Fox, but he has neglected her spiritual education. He only cares for the physical aspect of the world and seems skeptical of any existence of the non-physical. So the Fox has trained her mind, but not her soul.

1: I think that it merely illustrates that Orual seems to fixate on the things of this world, and doesn't really pay any attention to the things of the gods. She feels such anger and hatred towards the gods for what they have done to her, that she can't understand Psyche's longing to go to them. She's definitely not there to support her sister, and merely goes to her chamber/cell in order to placate her own feelings. It's really quite selfish. . Psyche's attention is merely fixated on something higher than herself, and Orual cannot understand that yet.

2: Misery loves company;)! Orual is miserable about it, and, regardless of how Psyche feels, she wants Psyche to feel miserable about it as well. Orual thinks that Psyche has given up, I think. Couple that with the fact that Orual has to know that Psyche is handling this situation in a more mature manner than she is, could also give rise to jealousy? I'm not sure.

3: I actually liked this quote in the book, and for the most part I found that it was pretty accurate apart from one thing, the fact that we're supposed to "pity" those around us. However there is no call for action. Orual/Fox seem to be nothing but looker's on in this situation, and towards these people. The two of them don't seem to have the same insight that Psyche has into the ways of the world, and therefore see the world through somewhat of a twisted lens.

Not going to answer the questions on this thread as they're pretty much exactly what I would have said anyways. But I did want to talk about something else here. I didn't know where else to put it, this thread seemed to be the most appropriate.

When I first opened the book, I noticed this book was dedicated to Lewis's wife Joy. After doing a bit of research I found that this book was published the year they were married when she was dying of cancer.

I couldn't help but suppose that perhaps the characters of Psyche and Orual were the two thoughts going through Lewis's mind. On one hand, Psyche, who clearly understands that this world is not the world we belong to, has a GREAT longing for heaven and would be happy that Joy was going to heaven.

On the other hand, Orual represents how we feel on this earth when we lose a loved one and they go where we cannot, particularly if they die early in life. I don't think many people go through life having lost a loved one without asking God why.

After having read the whole book now, this chapter is still the most powerful and most profound to me (with the ending of course being a close second).

I see what you mean. I also read that Joy helped him write the book.

I knew he dedicated it to Joy, but I didn't know when it was published. That is interesting to think about.

I also read that Joy helped him write the book.

Out of curiosity, where did you read this? I've never heard that before.

It was something about her helping him with ideas...I read it in a biography of Lewis that was part of a series on great leaders.

1. I don't really think Orual understood Psyche’s meaning because she was too overcome with grief. Psyche wasn't saying she longed for death she longed for the afterlife.
2. I think Orual does not want to see her sister calm about her fate because she wants her to fight it. Orual thinks if Psyche is not upset then she has accepted her fate and nothing can be done to save her. Orual is still holding out hope she can be saved. Orual won’t let herself believe that her sister is going to die.
3. I wonder if he lived in modern times if the fox would be considered an atheist. I think he believes in the gods more than he lets on because in an earlier chapter when he is talking about killing himself he is concerned about the fate of his soul.