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Letter 6

Pattertwigs Pal
(@twigs)
Member Moderator

Below there are a few questions to help get the discussion started. You do not need to answer all of the questions. We want this to be a discussion so if you have something you would like to discuss that isn't covered in the questions feel free. As long as you are respectful, you can comment on other people's answers as well.

1. As you read this letter, do any particular Scripture passages come to mind?

2. Screwtape advises a line of attack on the patient that builds on the idea that the imaginary is more important to the patient's soul than the reality. Do you think this will work on the patient?

3. Screwtape claims “[The English] are creatures of that miserable sort who loudly proclaim that torture is too good for their enemies and then give tea and cigarettes to the first wounded German pilot who turns up at the back door.” What do think about this? How accurate do you think it is of the English or people in general?

4. What did you find interesting (discussion worthy) in this letter?


NW sister to Movie Aristotle & daughter of the King

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Topic starter Posted : January 17, 2012 12:26 am
Reepicheep775
(@reepicheep775)
NarniaWeb Junkie

1. The idea of worrying being a temptation made me think about Jesus' words on worrying:

"So don’t worry about these things, saying, ‘What will we eat? What will we drink? What will we wear?’ These things dominate the thoughts of unbelievers, but your heavenly Father already knows all your needs. Seek the Kingdom of God above all else, and live righteously, and he will give you everything you need." -Matthew 6:31-33

I'll answer the other questions probably tomorrow. I don't have the time right now.

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Posted : January 17, 2012 7:44 am
Pattertwigs Pal
(@twigs)
Member Moderator

1. As you read this letter, do any particular Scripture passages come to mind?
I'm drawing a blank right now. :P The letter references the Lord's Prayer

2. Screwtape advises a line of attack on the patient that builds on the idea that the imaginary is more important to the patient's soul than the reality. Do you think this will work on the patient? I'm not sure about the patient but I do see how it could work on people. I find that anticipation of an event is often worse than the event its self. It is hard not to worry about the future.

3. Screwtape claims “[The English] are creatures of that miserable sort who loudly proclaim that torture is too good for their enemies and then give tea and cigarettes to the first wounded German pilot who turns up at the back door.” What do think about this? How accurate do you think it is of the English or people in general? I can believe some people would do that but it is hard to believe that a lot of people would do it.

4. What did you find interesting (discussion worthy) in this letter?
I can't think of anything the first questions didn't cover.


NW sister to Movie Aristotle & daughter of the King

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Topic starter Posted : January 22, 2012 12:58 pm
stargazer
(@stargazer)
Member Moderator

1. The passages already referenced (The Lord's Prayer and Jesus' words from Matthew 6) were the ones that came to mind.

2. To me oftentimes worrying about a future event brings up all sorts of possible outcomes, most of which usually turn out to be worse than the actual result. These imaginary outcomes can be a distraction to reality. In this sense, the imaginary vs reality strategy might work.

3. I chuckled aloud when I read this part. I don't know the English like Lewis did, but this could either be true or a very tongue-in-cheek remark. However, I found it to be the reverse of another point Screwtape makes:

The great thing is to direct the malice to his immediate neighbours whom he meets every day and to thrust his benevolence out to the remote circumference, to people he does not know. The malice thus becomes wholly real and the benevolence largely imaginary. There is no good at all in inflaming his hatred of Germans if, at the same time, a pernicious habit of charity is growing up between him and his mother, his employer, and the man he meets on the train.

Here Screwtape wants him to do the exact opposite: have a largely theoretical sense of benevolence to the world in general while being malicious to those people he encounters each day.

I can see why Screwtape would encourage this: "actions speak louder than words" (or good intentions).

4. See 3 above.

But all night, Aslan and the Moon gazed upon each other with joyful and unblinking eyes.

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Posted : February 4, 2012 7:44 am
ValiantArcher
(@valiantarcher)
BC Head and G&B Mod Moderator

1. Screwtape himself mentions the Lord's Prayer, and his idea of trying to keep charity away from the people the Patient interacts with reminds me of the verses telling us to love our neighbors and our enemies (such as Matthew 5:43-44, "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you").

2. I think it all too often works on us, so it could work on the Patient. You can imagine scenarios where you show kindness and compassion to people in all these extenuating circumstances and yet be harsh all the time with those you see in normal circumstances.

3. I liked this bit. ;)) A lot of the English I know are really kind and hospitable, but then again, I wasn't meeting them as an enemy, so... ;) I do think that in many instances, people will be all bluster and talk, but then react a lot differently than they thought when faced with a situation. However, it's not necessarily a good thing---sometimes it just means we lose our temper when we meant to keep it or such. Sometimes, though, it means when we meant to throw the law down at someone, we act with mercy and love instead. :)

4. Screwtape's notion of keeping the Patient focused on the object when he was sinning and not thinking about what he was doing was quite interesting. I attended a church retreat at the end of last year, and one thing the pastor said to us about sin and confessing it was to call it by name. It strikes you a lot harder if you don't say, "Well, I think I was sinning when I did so-and-so---I just know it wasn't right" but say, "I was sinning by being wrathful, by being lustful, by being jealous". If you call something by the proper name and don't sugar-coat it, it makes you face it more squarely and realise what you're doing.

God rest you merry, gentlemen,
Let nothing you dismay.
Remember Christ our Savior
Was born on Christmas Day
To save us all from Satan's pow'r
When we were gone astray.

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Posted : February 5, 2012 11:01 am
Movie Aristotle
(@risto)
NarniaWeb Junkie

2. I think the most useful part of this letter for me has been realizing that not every fear can actually happen. Living with worry is a mistake. It distracts, and does not help. It can even paralyze. Screwtape knows this well.

3. Screwtape encourages annoyance with people the patient actually comes in contact with and benevolence with people he doesn't, not because Screwtape is a fan of benevolence, but because benevolence towards someone you'll never meet is useless, except in that it'll make the patient feel righteous. It is a clever use of deception to mask the patient's true condition.

Of course in Screwtape's perfect world, everyone would be nasty to everyone and feel justified in being so.

Screwtape's annoyance towards the English (and, I would assume Americans or anyone who shows mercy toward their enemy) is because they exhibit malevolence towards the enemies they haven't met, but when they actually meet an enemy face-to-face they don't follow through! Screwtape knows that a kindness to someone you've met is far more powerful than ill-wishes toward someone you haven't.

Movie Aristotle, AKA Risto

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Posted : February 13, 2012 6:09 am
Ithilwen
(@ithilwen)
NarniaWeb Zealot

Screwtape advises a line of attack on the patient that builds on the idea that the imaginary is more important to the patient's soul than the reality. Do you think this will work on the patient?

It's difficult to answer this as I got a different impression from the letter. I didn't see that Screwtape thinks the imaginary is more important than the reality to the patient's soul, but rather that he believes most humans have a measure of good will and a measure of hatred toward their fellow humans. He's talking about which one should be distributed where. If his good will is directed toward imaginary ideas of far off people, and the hatred is directed toward those around him on a daily basis, then the patient's good will towards fellow man will never have the opportunity to come out. But his hatred will.

Screwtape claims “[The English] are creatures of that miserable sort who loudly proclaim that torture is too good for their enemies and then give tea and cigarettes to the first wounded German pilot who turns up at the back door.” What do think about this? How accurate do you think it is of the English or people in general?

I don't think I could make any stereotypes about English people specifically. I think the human race in general has a habit of picturing scary, monster-like people whenever they hear the word "enemy". But when they actually see the enemy, and see a human being who looks much like them -- and especially if that human being is somehow wounded -- that monster picture dissipates, and they might feel more compassionate toward them.

~Riella =:)

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Posted : July 2, 2012 6:41 pm
Varnafinde
(@varna)
Princess of the Noldor and Royal Overseer of the Talk About Narnia forum Moderator

3. Screwtape encourages annoyance with people the patient actually comes in contact with and benevolence with people he doesn't, not because Screwtape is a fan of benevolence, but because benevolence towards someone you'll never meet is useless, except in that it'll make the patient feel righteous. It is a clever use of deception to mask the patient's true condition.
[...]
Screwtape knows that a kindness to someone you've met is far more powerful than ill-wishes toward someone you haven't.

I think this is also where you see the difference between the imaginary and the reality. The reality is the people he sees around him, while he has to imagine what it would be like to meet the people he hasn't met (in this case the Germans). If he then shows malice to people around him, Screwtape can allow him to feel benevolent to the Germans - because "The malice thus becomes wholly real and the benevolence largely imaginary."

Similarly Screwtape wants him to be vague and unfocused when it comes to "all activities favourable to the Enemy" - wants him then rather to focus on his own state of mind - but to focus on the reality of the object in question when the activities are not such.

One can therefore formulate the general rule; in all activities of mind which favour our cause, encourage the patient to be un-selfconscious and to concentrate on the object, but in all activities favourable to the Enemy bend his mind back on itself.


(avi artwork by Henning Janssen)

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Posted : July 31, 2012 4:42 pm
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