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Chapter 9: What Lucy Saw

Pattertwigs Pal
(@twigs)
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1. Why do you think the trees seemed to respond to Lucy but did not fully wake up?

2. Why do you think Lewis included having Lucy bring up the idea of men going wild inside and people not being able to tell the difference? Do you think something like this is possible?

3. How would you have reacted to Lucy seeing Aslan?

4. If you had to vote, would you vote to follow Lucy or not?

5. What do the characters' reactions to Lucy's seeing Aslan and their votes tell you about their personality? What do you think about the reasoning behind their votes?


NW sister to Movie Aristotle & daughter of the King

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Topic starter Posted : December 2, 2014 1:15 am
Ryadian
(@rya)
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1. Why do you think the trees seemed to respond to Lucy but did not fully wake up?
I think they responded to Lucy not only because, perhaps to some degree, they recognized her as a Queen of Narnia, but certainly because she was reaching out to them. There aren't many people in Narnia who believe in the dryads' existence anymore, and I imagine even fewer of them call out to them, or know how to. As for why they didn't fully wake up, I think it has a lot to do with Lucy not being their master or having power over them, per se. While I certainly believe they would respect Queen Lucy, they've been in a deep slumber for a long, long time; Lucy alone doesn't have the power to snap them out of it, I don't think. Aslan, on the other hand....

2. Why do you think Lewis included having Lucy bring up the idea of men going wild inside and people not being able to tell the difference? Do you think something like this is possible?
To the degree it happens for Talking Beasts? Probably not, but I certainly believe in the idea that humans can lose what makes them what they are - honor, decency, etc. - but still appear perfectly normal. With people, too, you have to be careful around them, because you never know what they truly are like inside.

3. How would you have reacted to Lucy seeing Aslan?
I'd like to think I would've reacted like Edmund - even if I didn't see Aslan myself, I'd remember what happened the last time Lucy saw something everyone else did not, and remember that sometimes, this is just how Aslan works. However, I have to admit that if I was as tired and desperate as the children were at this point, I may have had an equally hard time believing it. I find it interesting that Lewis didn't switch to Lucy's perspective here so that we, the audience, could "see" Aslan too - all we see is how Lucy reacts. We, too, have to take it on faith that Lucy actually saw Aslan and isn't just seeing what she wants to see.

4. If you had to vote, would you vote to follow Lucy or not?
Admittedly, being a girl who doesn't carry a map in her head, I've never fully understood this dilemma. Trumpkin says it could take longer to cross the gorge, but given that they aren't even fully sure of where they are, why are they all so convinced that this would be a bad thing? From a purely geographical, practical perspective, I would believe that Trumpkin may have been right. However, given that the four children do know Aslan, do know how he tends to operate, and should trust him... I really don't see why they weren't willing to try what Lucy said. Peter especially, though I'll get into that more in the next question. I would have voted to go with Lucy - if nothing else, it's some kind of sign of what the right direction is, and again, the group wasn't really sure at that point.

5. What do the characters' reactions to Lucy's seeing Aslan and their votes tell you about their personality? What do you think about the reasoning behind their votes?
I think Trumpkin's decision makes perfect sense for his character. He still doesn't even really believe in Aslan, and he's guided entirely on both what's most practical for the group and what will get them all back to Caspian, his King, the fastest. Given how tired Susan was at this point, I'm not entirely surprised that she had a moment of weakness where she went with what sounded the most practical - and would get them out of the woods, literally, the fastest - rather than what was probably the right thing to do, since as I mentioned above, I don't think any of the children really, truly had an excuse for disbelieving Lucy here.

To me, Edmund and Peter's reactions are both a little surprising. Edmund, being a very practical character, seems likely to side with Trumpkin for that reason. However, it's still perfectly in character that he would decide to go with Lucy. In addition to the reason he cited - he vividly remembers the last time he didn't believe what Lucy said in a case like this - I think he also just has an easier time putting his faith in Aslan than the others might, aside from Lucy. After all, he owes his life to Aslan in a way the others don't. Peter, on the other hand... that still surprises me. I suppose you might say that he, as the High King and the leader of the group, knew that he really needed to decide what was best for all of them, aside from what his own personal feelings might be. But Peter has a level enough head that you'd think he'd have faith in Lucy and in Aslan to go with Lucy's plan. If he believed Lucy at all, you'd think he would've voted for up - so, did he just... not believe her? Honestly, I really think Peter could have gone either way. I wonder if he would've voted differently if someone had made him vote earlier.

N-Web sis of stardf, _Rillian_, & jerenda
Proud to be Sirya the Madcap Siren

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Posted : January 19, 2015 10:49 am
aileth
(@aileth)
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1. Why do you think the trees seemed to respond to Lucy but did not fully wake up?
Poor Lucy! She did seem to have trouble waking people up, didn't she? I guess it just wasn't the right time. That sense of frustration Lewis writes of seems far too common, for me at least. Knowing that you know the right word, and not being able to recall it; talking on when you know you should stop. Stuff like that.

2. Why do you think Lewis included having Lucy bring up the idea of men going wild inside and people not being able to tell the difference? Do you think something like this is possible?
Lewis often put in little bits like this, asides, if you will, that are not directly related to the plot. This particular idea was suggested by George Macdonald, as mentioned here. It seems that we could be seeing that kind of phenomena these days; the veneer of our civilization is not all that thick sometimes. Generally we can guess when someone has "gone wild" by their actions, but of course we can't see the heart. A good deal of "wildness" could be out there, and we wouldn't know.

3. How would you have reacted to Lucy seeing Aslan?
I would most likely have been as puzzled as the others were.

4. If you had to vote, would you vote to follow Lucy or not?
I would like to say yes; if I knew what we know as readers, of course I would. Under the circumstances, however, I fear I would probably be as grumpy and "adult" as Susan. Much as I like hiking, I'm always happiest once we've turned around and are on the way home, so I can feel for her.

5. What do the characters' reactions to Lucy's seeing Aslan and their votes tell you about their personality? What do you think about the reasoning behind their votes?
Democracy at its best (or worst) :) Why did Edmund suggest putting it to the vote? That is, why didn't he state his reason for agreeing with Lucy right away instead of leaving it till later?
Good question, Rya, about the timing of Peter's vote, too.

Of course, they had already decided to go down the river before Lucy saw Aslan. I hadn't really noticed that before, but I can see why it would have made Peter's choice much harder.

Peter might find it difficult to believe that Lucy had seen Aslan, not so much because he thought she was lying, but because no one else saw him. It wouldn't seem typical of what he knew of Aslan.

Trumpkin may have believed in an historical Aslan at this point, since by now he had acknowledged the four children as the ancient rulers. However, he still did not believe in Aslan as the others knew him, so his reasoning was quite consistent, if a bit frustrating.

Susan? Well, we find out later exactly what Susan really thought. And feel sorry, perhaps, that she

Now my days are swifter than a post: they flee away ... my days are swifter than a weaver's shuttle

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Posted : January 30, 2015 7:18 pm
Pattertwigs Pal
(@twigs)
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1. Why do you think the trees seemed to respond to Lucy but did not fully wake up?
There are a couple of options: Aslan has already arrived in Narnia or the trees could sense in their sleep that Lucy was special but were unable to wake up.
2. Why do you think Lewis included having Lucy bring up the idea of men going wild inside and people not being able to tell the difference? Do you think something like this is possible?
I think it might be a comment on the way mankind is going. I have not read Abolition of Man but from what I have seen from quotes it could relate to that idea. For example, “We make men without chests and expect from them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst.”
― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man. those men could look normal on the outside but be "wild" on the inside.

I do think something similar is possible but probably not to the extent of animals in Narnia. There are a lot of times when a person commits a violent crime and acquaintances, friends, and relatives are quoted saying they had no idea it was coming and/or it was not in character for this person.
3. How would you have reacted to Lucy seeing Aslan?
I would have been excited and then confused because I didn't see him.
4. If you had to vote, would you vote to follow Lucy or not?
I would vote to go with Lucy. She had been right before and is the one most likely to see Aslan.
5. What do the characters' reactions to Lucy's seeing Aslan and their votes tell you about their personality? What do you think about the reasoning behind their votes? Susan's clearly more worried about her comfort. Trumpkin is thinking about what is easiest and his reasoning makes sense in light of his disbelief of Aslan. Edmund is clearly repentant of the way he behaved the first time they came to Narnia. I think his reasons could have been a little more elegantly and convincingly stated but he had the best reason of any for his vote. Peter just doesn't seem to want to vote at all. His reason for his vote is hardly a reason at all. Maybe he didn't want to listen to Susan's whining or wanted to side with Trumpkin or he couldn't get away from the logic of going up.


NW sister to Movie Aristotle & daughter of the King

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Topic starter Posted : May 23, 2015 1:34 pm
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