@davidd

Quote 1: Lewis shows that Corin is a spirited boy. His motive in running off is to defend Queen Susan's honour.

Quote 2: Corin should have had the discipline to ignore an idle comment from a boy in the street. Edmund tells us that Corin had disappeared over night. Corin should have known that all this time that he was missing would have been a problem. Arguably, he also should have known that getting into fights with kids in the street and the Calorman guard is not the best way to be an ambassador for your nation.

Though Corin could likely look after himself, Shasta did not know that when he hoped that he would be taken to Narnia and Archenland in Corin's place. There is still a failing here on Shasta's behalf.

Spirited boy or not, Corin did run away, and in doing so, let everyone down. In this story, I could see King Edmund's point of view, when he was friends with King Lune and when to mind anyone's child is a responsibility. And when even in VDT, talking to Eustace, he still is mindful of his own earlier behaviour in betraying his own family & Narnia to the White Witch in LWW. Edmund's then behaviour is attributed to the boarding school he went to, where, no doubt, the rules were strict. 

If his school was anything like the boarding school, I attended myself, the standard punishment for so-called "spirited boys who ran away" would be at least "6 of the best", administered by the School Superintendent or the Headmaster. I remember one boy in particular, one of a series, who did run away, name of "Peter Harvey", and what the Superintendent (who grew up in the same boarding school, himself) said about that disappointing boy compared to his well-behaved older sister Margaret, I think it was. I didn't really understand why the school was so strict until I was a parent, myself, & then forgave my Dad, for putting me into such a place when he couldn't work full-time & mind me, himself, & even in holidays he often left me with "minders" when he also had work to do. I can see why King Edmund would be furious, especially on Susan's account, who, to be fair to her, would have taken her responsibilities for Corin (in loco parentis) even more seriously than she did as Edmund & Lucy's elder sister.

But getting back to Shasta, & given King Edmund's reaction on finding this Corin-lookalike, being used to being blamed & hit, I bet that he was scared stiff of what might happen to him, not only by then because of his own escape but also on Aravis' as well. 

Of course, his first impulse was to say that he was only poor Arsheesh the fisherman’s son and that the foreign lord must have mistaken him for someone else. But then, the very last thing he wanted to do in that crowded place was to start explaining who he was and what he was doing.

I'll bet. Shasta has very valid reasons for not wanting to say who he is, even though by now he knows he most certainly isn't "poor Arsheesh, the fisherman's son". We know how gruesome Calormen justice could be, not only from what Lasaraleen has to tell us, and now he not only has Arsheesh & Anradin (on account of Bree) after him, but Aravis's father looking for her - remember how Shasta sympathised with Aravis' maid, employed to spy on Aravis, herself, when her stepmother couldn't, & when Aravis' interests in horses & dogs were likely not considered "ladylike" by Calormene standards. What did @coracle say earlier in this thread about how Susan as a schoolgirl of 13 would be expected to behave?

@coracle However the actual life of a 13-year-old girl then was nothing like youth culture in the 21st century. Girls were treated as children, required to help around the home, do their schoolwork, and not talk to boys on the street.

Just like at my own boarding school, in fact, when the boys were in their own half & kept strictly away from girls, except when we were in class together. Unfortunately for them, maybe, the boys, not only the girls, had to not only learn to make their own beds - perfectly - army fashion & do 1/2 an hour a day each of housework & outside work, as well as schoolwork, but they were also expected, amongst other interests like drum-playing or sports, to do extra-curricular activities like running the school dairy and looking after the school's small herd of cattle. Even the senior girls on the school bus with the senior boys were not allowed to talk together, though brothers & sisters did try to keep in contact.

“There’s no time,” said Shasta in a frantic whisper. “I’m a Narnian, I believe; something Northern anyway. But I’ve been brought up all my life in Calormen. And I’m escaping: across the desert; with a talking Horse called Bree. And now, quick! How do I get away?”

Shasta, however much he enjoyed being coddled for a change, (thank you, Mr Tumnus, he might think), would realise the game's up once Corin appeared, so no wonder he was sort of half hoping that Corin wouldn't turn up, however selfish you may think he was. Apparently, Corin had learned to box but he still had a black eye, so of course, that would have to be explained, so he couldn't lie even if he wanted to. King Edmund didn't seem all that mollified when they all met up once again in Narnia, at Duffle, Rogin & Bricklethumb's abode. 

"Please, Your Majesty", said Shasta to King Edmund. "I was no traitor, really I wasn't. And I couldn't help hearing your plans. But I would never have dreamed of telling them to your enemies".

"I know now that you were no traitor, boy," said King Edmund. "But if you would not be taken for one," try not to hear what's meant for other ears. But all's well."

King Edmund should talk, I think, when he, himself, had been less than perfect in the whole arc of his character, not only in LWW, but later, in VDT, on Deathwater Island. But even King Edmund doesn't know who Shasta is yet. I find that the most glorious moment in this book is when Shasta finally meets King Lune. 

Corin! My son! And on foot, and in rags! What—”
“No,” panted Shasta, shaking his head. “Not Prince Corin. I—I—know I’m like him … saw his Highness in Tashbaan … sent his greetings.”
The King was staring at Shasta with an extraordinary expression on his face.
“Are you K-King Lune?” gasped Shasta. And then, without waiting for an answer, “Lord King—fly—Anvard—shut the gates—enemies upon you—Rabadash and two hundred horse.”....

He was pleased to hear the Lord Darrin say to the King, “The boy has a true horseman’s seat, Sire. I’ll warrant there’s noble blood in him.”
“His blood, aye, there’s the point,” said the King. And he stared hard at Shasta again with that curious expression, almost a hungry expression, in his steady gray eyes.

This moment, even more than the moment after the battle of Anvard has been won, when Shasta is shown to King Lune's court side by side with Prince Corin, is absolutely gorgeous. Compare this story with the parable of the Prodigal Son. There are also two similar stories I have read: The Prince & the Pauper (Samuel Clemens/Mark Twain) and the Man in the Iron Mask (Alexandre Dumas). 

Unfortunately, such family reunions are not always so well-handled in real life, as I should know. You did say something about Shasta's future career as King. I think that his being able to keep his own counsel & to be alert to what is going on would make him a better king than Corin, with his more impulsive behaviour. Yes, King Cor would be Archenland's highest official, and the Archenlandish version of the Tisroc. I think that Aravis would always have his back & his support, no matter how much they argued, Queen or not.

Posted by: @waggawerewolf27

Spirited boy or not, Corin did run away, and in doing so, let everyone down. In this story, I could see King Edmund's point of view, when he was friends with King Lune and when to mind anyone's child is a responsibility. And when even in VDT, talking to Eustace, he still is mindful of his own earlier behaviour in betraying his own family & Narnia to the White Witch in LWW.

Very fair! Corin had misbehaved.  His misbehavior may have indirectly led to Archenland being saved from Rabadash (as otherwise Shasta would not have received the critical information of how to cross the desert).  Nonetheless, Corin did not know the good that would come from his bad decision.  Corin gets off pretty easy for this misdemeanor – as you said, Shasta got the one hit that Corin should have received.  (And one hit is far more lenient than 'ten of the best'.)

Posted by: @waggawerewolf27

I'll bet. Shasta has very valid reasons for not wanting to say who he is, even though by now he knows he most certainly isn't "poor Arsheesh, the fisherman's son". We know how gruesome Calormen justice could be, not only from what Lasaraleen has to tell us, and now he not only has Arsheesh & Anradin (on account of Bree) after him, but Aravis's father looking for her - remember how Shasta sympathised with Aravis' maid, employed to spy on Aravis, herself, when her stepmother couldn't, & when Aravis' interests in horses & dogs were likely not considered "ladylike" by Calormene standards.

Yes, I do not blame Shasta for not telling them who he was.  I think he made the right decision under the circumstance.  My point was more that the ongoing question of “who is Shasta?” keeps coming up.  In this scene, I love that Shasta only knows that he has been raised as Arsheesh’s son and he thinks he has been mistaken for a prince of Archenland, when there is no mistake; he is a prince of Archenland – and that makes me smile.

Posted by: @waggawerewolf27

Shasta, however much he enjoyed being coddled for a change, (thank you, Mr Tumnus, he might think), would realise the game's up once Corin appeared, so no wonder he was sort of half hoping that Corin wouldn't turn up, however selfish you may think he was.

Well, yes, the game would be up.  But Shasta was not merely hoping that Prince Corin would not show up until Shasta had escaped from the Narnians and was safely away.  Shasta was hoping that Corin would not turn up until it was too late and Shasta could sail on a boat, in comfort, to Narnia while poor Corin is lost and exiled in Tashbaan (while the local rulers are hostile to their former ‘guests’ for outwitting them).

Shasta had so enjoyed his dinner and all the things Tumnus had been telling him that when he was left alone his thoughts took a different turn. He only hoped now that the real Prince Corin would not turn up until it was too late and that he would be taken away to Narnia by ship. I am afraid he did not think at all of what might happen to the real Corin when he was left behind in Tashbaan.

Prince Corin might be able to look after himself, but Shasta did not know that, he is wishing for events that could easily amount to a death penalty on Prince Corin.  I do not think enjoying being coddled justifies this.  I think this is selfish on Shasta’s behalf – and Lewis own aside in the text “I am afraid he did not think at all of what might happen to the real Corin when he was left behind in Tashbaan.” seems to indicate (to me at least) that he thought it was too.

Again, my purpose in that quotation was to point out that Corin raises the question 3 times of “who is Shasta?”  To which, Shasta can only answer,

“I’m nobody, nobody in particular, I mean,” said Shasta.

My impression from the various quotes is that this is how Shasta sees himself (which is quite understandable given all he remembers of his past), but the question of ‘who is Shasta?’ is quite important to the ongoing story.

Posted by: @waggawerewolf27

King Edmund should talk, I think, when he, himself, had been less than perfect in the whole arc of his character, not only in LWW, but later, in VDT, on Deathwater Island.

In King Edmund's defense, C.S. Lewis had already written The Voyage of the Dawntreader and likely knew that Edmund would again fail at Deathwater Island (as would Caspian for that matter), but within the chronological world of the books, Edmund was yet to make that mistake.  It is a bit rough being called a hypocrite for something you have not done yet.  Edmund had made mistakes in Narnia under the White Witch (which he humbly brings up with regard to Rabadash).  I do not think that means he cannot discipline a child who is also making mistakes. (Otherwise most parents are disqualified.  I was a ratbag as a child. I want to raise my family well, which means I cannot allow some of the out right evil things I got up to when I was a child myself.  I readily admit what I did was wrong.  I do not think it makes me a hypocrite if I want to spare my own children some of the grief that I went through for my mistakes.  Is Edmund a bad man if he corrects Shasta when he, himself was not perfect either?)

Posted by: @waggawerewolf27

This moment, even more than the moment after the battle of Anvard has been won, when Shasta is shown to King Lune's court side by side with Prince Corin, is absolutely gorgeous.

Yeah, it is pretty good. 😀 

Posted by: @waggawerewolf27

I think that his being able to keep his own counsel & to be alert to what is going on would make him a better king than his more impulsive behavior.

Yes, that is true.  After I wrote the previous post, I was reflecting that King Lune had said that a King needs to laugh louder over a meager meal for the sake of the country’s morale.  Shasta would have been very able to sympathize with the lot of the common people and those in need having been raised in poverty himself.  He also learnt a lot on his journey with Bree, Aravis and Hwin.  I think there would be a number of things he would have had to unlearn (his mistrust of the people around him, etc.), but his past would have as much virtues as hindrances for his future kingship.

Posted by: @waggawerewolf27

I think that Aravis would always have his back & his support, no matter how much they argued, Queen or not.

Indeed, they are said to have made a good king and queen after King Lune’s passing.  I think both have grown a lot over the course of their adventure – and presumably matured more as the grew older in the court.  (Aren’t they meant to be early teens in this book?  I would not judge their ability to rule and make a successful marriage so early in their lives.)

@davidd

quote 1: In King Edmund's defense, C.S. Lewis had already written The Voyage of the Dawntreader and likely knew that Edmund would again fail at Deathwater Island (as would Caspian for that matter), but within the chronological world of the books, Edmund was yet to make that mistake.  It is a bit rough being called a hypocrite for something you have not done yet.  Edmund had made mistakes in Narnia under the White Witch (which he humbly brings up with regard to Rabadash).

quote 2. I do not think it makes me a hypocrite if I want to spare my own children some of the grief that I went through for my mistakes.  Is Edmund a bad man if he corrects Shasta when he, himself was not perfect either?)

Quote 1: Very fair comment. You said that you do not think that means he cannot discipline a child who is also making mistakes. (Otherwise, most parents are disqualified). That is the trouble with parenthood: it is seeing life on the opposite side of the counter to the life one led as a child, really. And yes, I've been there & done that when my own three daughters were growing up. It is sometimes rather funny when one daughter or the other says things about the current generation, which might also have applied to their own echelon.  

Quote 2: No, I'm not criticising you. And no, Edmund is not a bad man if he corrects Shasta when he, himself, was not perfect, either. I still think it was rough that Shasta got the smack that really should have gone to Corin, when Shasta must have been scared out of his wits at the time. That is the problem also, about being a teacher. In my day, I could get the cane (though somehow, I talked my way out of it, admiring the Laughing Cavalier over the headmaster's desk, when he treasured his paintings by Franz Hals, Vermeer & Utrillo.) & my parents weren't slow to correct me, either. But these days even parents can be criticised for hitting children.

I'm glad that Corin was amenable to letting Shasta make himself scarce. I'd like to have been a fly on the wall when Corin with his black eye turns up on cue, to go back to Cair Paravel with Susan & Edmund, & with the strange boy missing. I suppose that King Edmund worried that Shasta might give them away. 

@davidd  (Aren’t they meant to  be early teens in this book?  I would not judge their ability to rule and make a successful marriage so early in their lives.)

Yes, they do take their time, as they should, according to the book. 

I have always liked the way that C. S. Lewis changed characters.  Edmund transforms from a traitor into a just person (he is called Edmund the Just when he becomes king). Eustace changes from a brat into a much nicer person after meeting Aslan.  Aravis gets over her snobbery after being painfully chastised by Aslan.  Lewis believed in not holding people’s past history against them. So there are contrasts in how people who once were bad can change for the better. It may be a reflection of Lewis’s own life in changing from an atheist to a Christian. Lewis didn’t hold his own past against him, and he made a remarkable contrasting change in his own lifestyle. So he did similar things with several characters in his books.  

Posted by: @waggawerewolf27

I'm glad that Corin was amenable to letting Shasta make himself scarce. I'd like to have been a fly on the wall when Corin with his black eye turns up on cue, to go back to Cair Paravel with Susan & Edmund, & with the strange boy missing. I suppose that King Edmund worried that Shasta might give them away. 

Yeah, this is another scene that C. S. Lewis did not include that would be great to see.  (Depending on how dramatic it is, the escape of the Narnians could also be quite dramatic too – something like the third act of Argo – but that is not the story C.S. Lewis chose to tell.)

I have always liked the way that C. S. Lewis changed characters.  Edmund transforms from a traitor into a just person (he is called Edmund the Just when he becomes king). Eustace changes from a brat into a much nicer person after meeting Aslan.  Aravis gets over her snobbery after being painfully chastised by Aslan.  Lewis believed in not holding people’s past history against them. So there are contrasts in how people who once were bad can change for the better. It may be a reflection of Lewis’s own life in changing from an atheist to a Christian.

Yes!  The character growth & redemption in these stories is fantastic.  Grace is present through out and whenever someone responds to forgiveness, it always transforms them.

Another pattern that I saw appearing in the books is in Voyage of the Dawntreader.  I would label it the ‘temptation pattern’ as one or more characters seem to undergo some sort of temptation in each of these sequences.  There is a bit of variance in the pattern (so see if you think I am off the plot, seeing things that are not there, or whether the pattern holds up).

The pattern more or less follows this sequence:

1. One or more characters are alone
2. The separated character(s) encounters one of the seven lost lords.
3. The character falls to some form of temptation
4. The character is set free by Aslan.

This scenario is first encountered when the Dawntreader comes to Dragon Island:

• Eustace Alone Dragon Island is primarily about Eustace. Eustace decides to leave the main group and go for a hike by himself:

Nobody was looking — they were all chattering about their ship as if they actually liked the beastly thing. Why shouldn't he simply slip away? He would take a stroll inland, find a cool, airy place up in the mountains, have a good long sleep, and not rejoin the others till the day's work was over. He felt it would do him good. But he would take great care to keep the bay and the ship in sight so as to be sure of his way back. He wouldn't like to be left behind in this country.
He at once put his plan into action. He rose quietly from his place and walked away among the trees, taking care to go slowly and in an aimless manner so that anyone who saw him would think he was merely stretching his legs.

• Sees Lord (Dragon) Once Eustace is lost in Dragon Island, he sees a dragon die before him. We later discover that this dragon may have eaten the Lord Octesian or it may have been Lord Octesian himself. At any rate, Eustace recovers Octesian’s bracelet showing that the Lord never came any further than this island:

Something was crawling. Worse still, something was coming out. Edmund or Lucy or you would have recognised it at once, but Eustace had read none of the right books. The thing that came out of the cave was something he had never even imagined — a long lead-coloured snout, dull red eyes, no feathers or fur, a long lithe body that trailed on the ground, legs whose elbows went up higher than its back like a spider's, cruel claws, bat's wings that made a rasping noise on the stones, yards of tail. And the two lines of smoke were coming from its two nostrils. He never said the word Dragon to himself. Nor would it have made things any better if he had.
…
People wondered whether the other dragon had killed the Lord Octesian several years ago or whether Octesian himself had been the old dragon.

• Tempted by Gold When Eustace enters the dragons cave, he sees the gold and is tempted by greed:

And of course Eustace found it to be what any of us could have told him in advance — treasure. There were crowns (those were the prickly things), coins, rings, bracelets, ingots, cups, plates and gems.
Eustace (unlike most boys) had never thought much of treasure but he saw at once the use it would be in this new world which he had so foolishly stumbled into through the picture in Lucy's bedroom at home. "They don't have any tax here," he said. "And you don't have to give treasure to the government. With some of this stuff I could have quite a decent time here — perhaps in Calormen. It sounds the least phoney of these countries. I wonder how much I can carry? That bracelet now — those things in it are probably diamonds — I'll slip that on my own wrist. Too big, but not if I push it right up here above my elbow. Then fill my pockets with diamonds — that's easier than gold.
…
He had turned into a dragon while he was asleep. Sleeping on a dragon's hoard with greedy, dragonish thoughts in his heart, he had become a dragon himself.

• Returns to boy when he encounters Aslan Eustace is set free from being a dragon when he meets Aslan:

"Well, anyway, I looked up and saw the very last thing I expected: a huge lion coming slowly towards me. And one queer thing was that there was no moon last night, but there was moonlight where the lion was. So it came nearer and nearer. I was terribly afraid of it.
…
And it led me a long way into the mountains. And there was always this moonlight over and round the lion wherever we went.
…
"Well, he peeled the beastly stuff right off — just as I thought I'd done it myself the other three times, only they hadn't hurt — and there it was lying on the grass: only ever so much thicker, and darker, and more knobbly looking than the others had been. And there was I as smooth and soft as a peeled switch and smaller than I had been. Then he caught hold of me — I didn't like that much for I was very tender underneath now that I'd no skin on — and threw me into the water. It smarted like anything but only for a moment.
After that it became perfectly delicious and as soon as I started swimming and splashing I found that all the pain had gone from my arm. And then I saw why. I'd turned into a boy again.

This pattern repeats again on Goldwater Island:

• 5 main heroes alone Caspian, Edmund, Lucy, Eustace and Reepicheep separate from the boat’s main crew for a bit of leisure:

By the time they had finished watering, the rain was over and Caspian, with Eustace, the Pevensies, and Reepicheep, decided to walk up to the top of the hill and see what could be seen. It was a stiffish climb through coarse grass and heather and they saw neither man nor beast, except sea-gulls. When they reached the top they saw that it was a very small island, not more than twenty acres; and from this height the sea looked larger and more desolate than it did from the deck, or even the fighting-top of the Dawn Treader.
…
"Don't let us go back the same way," said Lucy as they turned; "let's go along a bit and come down by the other stream, the one Drinian wanted to go to."
Everyone agreed to this and after about fifteen minutes they were at the source of the second river.

• See Lord (Gold statue) As they journey, they encounter a golden statue in a pool which turns our to be one of the lost seven lords:

The bottom of the pool was made of large greyish-blue stones and the water was perfectly clear, and on the bottom lay a life-size figure of a man, made apparently of gold. It lay face downwards with its arms stretched out above its head. And it so happened that as they looked at it, the clouds parted and the sun shone out. The golden shape was lit up from end to end. Lucy thought it was the most beautiful statue she had ever seen.

• Tempted by Gold This time it is King Caspian and Edmund who are tempted by the gold:

"The King who owned this island," said Caspian slowly, and his face flushed as he spoke, "would soon be the richest of all the Kings of the world. I claim this land for ever as a Narnian possession. It shall be called Goldwater Island. And I bind all you to secrecy. No one must know of this. Not even Drinian — on pain of death, do you hear?"

"Who are you talking to?" said Edmund. "I'm no subject of yours. If anything it's the other way round. I am one of the four ancient sovereigns of Narnia and you are under allegiance to the High King my brother."

"So it has come to that, King Edmund, has it?" said Caspian, laying his hand on his sword-hilt.

• Freed by Aslan Aslan appears and snaps Caspian and Edmund out of their fury with one another:

Across the grey hillside above them — grey, for the heather was not yet in bloom — without noise, and without looking at them, and shining as if he were in bright sunlight though the sun had in fact gone in, passed with slow pace the hugest lion that human eyes have ever seen. In describing the scene Lucy said afterwards, "He was the size of an elephant," though at another time she only said, "The size of a cart-horse." But it was not the size that mattered. Nobody dared to ask what it was. They knew it was Aslan.

And nobody ever saw how or where he went. They looked at one another like people waking from sleep.

"What were we talking about?" said Caspian. "Have I been making rather an ass of myself?"

The next occurrence happens on the Island of the Duffers.  This occurrence does not quite follow the same pattern as there is no lost Lord encountered in this case:

• Lucy alone This is Lucy’s story. Lucy has to go to Magician’s room alone to undo the enchantment which made the duffers invisible:

Then, after being instructed by the Chief Voice about what she was to do upstairs, she bid good-bye to the others, said nothing, walked to the bottom of the stairs, and began going up them without once looking back.

• Finds book This is where this pattern does not quite conform to the others. Lucy is sent on a quest to find the magic book and read the spell to make the duffers visible again. This has no direct connection to the quest to find the seven Telmarine Lords:

She went up to the desk and laid her hand on the book; her fingers tingled when she touched it as if it were full of electricity. She tried to open it but couldn't at first; this, however, was only because it was fastened by two leaden clasps, and when she had undone these it opened easily enough. And what a book it was!

• Tempted by vanity and to eaves drop Lucy is first tempted to acquire beauty beyond the lot of mortals. Lucy’s desire to be so beautiful does not seem to be for the beauty itself, but for how people will react to her. First of all, she is attracted to all the fuss that will be made over her with all the kings fighting wars to win her hand in marriage. Then she is tempted to be so beautiful that no one will care about Susan anymore and only about herself. In both cases, Lucy is almost desiring to be an idol. Then Lucy is tempted to incite a spell that will allow her to eves drop on her friends. In both cases the temptation for Lucy is about how people perceive her. (And I can relate to her – I care way too much about what others think of me.)

Then she came to a page which was such a blaze of pictures that one hardly noticed the writing. Hardly — but she did notice the first words. They were, An infallible spell to make beautiful her that uttereth it beyond the lot of mortals. Lucy peered at the pictures with her face close to the page, and though they had seemed crowded and muddlesome before, she found she could now see them quite clearly. The first was a picture of a girl standing at a reading-desk reading in a huge book. And the girl was dressed exactly like Lucy. In the next picture Lucy (for the girl in the picture was Lucy herself) was standing up with her mouth open and a rather terrible expression on her face, chanting or reciting something. In the third picture the beauty beyond the lot of mortals had come to her. It was strange, considering how small the pictures had looked at first, that the Lucy in the picture now seemed quite as big as the real Lucy; and they looked into each other's eyes and the real Lucy looked away after a few minutes because she was dazzled by the beauty of the other Lucy; though she could still see a sort of likeness to herself in that beautiful face. And now the pictures came crowding on her thick and fast. She saw herself throned on high at a great tournament in Calormen and all the Kings of the world fought because of her beauty. After that it turned from tournaments to real wars, and all Narnia and Archenland, Telmar and Calormen, Galma and Terebinthia, were laid waste with the fury of the kings and dukes and great lords who fought for her favour. Then it changed and Lucy, still beautiful beyond the lot of mortals, was back in England. And Susan (who had always been the beauty of the family) came home from America. The Susan in the picture looked exactly like the real Susan only plainer and with a nasty expression. And Susan was jealous of the dazzling beauty of Lucy, but that didn't matter a bit because no one cared anything about Susan now.
"I will say the spell," said Lucy. "I don't care. I will." She said I don't care because she had a strong feeling that she mustn't.
…
A little later she came to a spell which would let you know what your friends thought about you. Now Lucy had wanted very badly to try the other spell, the one that made you beautiful beyond the lot of mortals. So she felt that to make up for not having said it, she really would say this one. And all in a hurry, for fear her mind would change, she said the words (nothing will induce me to tell you what they were). Then she waited for something to happen.

• Aslan appears to free Lucy Aslan actually appears twice in this sequence. First Aslan’s face appears in the book to prevent Lucy from uttering the spell to become beautiful beyond the lot of mortals:

But when she looked back at the opening words of the spell, there in the middle of the writing, where she felt quite sure there had been no picture before, she found the great face of a lion, of The Lion, Aslan himself, staring into hers. It was painted such a bright gold that it seemed to be coming towards her out of the page; and indeed she never was quite sure afterwards that it hadn't really moved a little. At any rate she knew the expression on his face quite well. He was growling and you could see most of his teeth. She became horribly afraid and turned over the page at once.

Aslan also appears physically in the mansion to meet Lucy.  While Aslan cannot make Lucy forget what she overheard when she spied on her friend, he is able to allow her some level of healing though his conversation with her:

After a little pause he spoke again.

"Child," he said, "I think you have been eavesdropping."

"Eavesdropping?"

"You listened to what your two schoolfellows were saying about you."

"Oh that? I never thought that was eavesdropping, Aslan. Wasn't it magic?"

"Spying on people by magic is the same as spying on them in any other way. And you have misjudged your friend. She is weak, but she loves you. She was afraid of the older girl and said what she does not mean."

The same pattern appears when the crew arrives at the Dark Island.  This instance is a little different again, as in this case, it is the entire crew of the Dawntreader that is tempted to despair, as such there is no separation of individuals from the rest of the crew in this instance.  Otherwise the pattern plays out in a fairly straight forward manner.

• Whole crew on board the Dawntreader:

"But what manner of use would it be ploughing through that blackness?" asked Drinian.
"Use?" replied Reepicheep. "Use, Captain? If by use you mean filling our bellies or our purses, I confess it will be no use at all. So far as I know we did not set sail to look for things useful but to seek honour and adventures. And here is as great an adventure as ever I heard of, and here, if we turn back, no little impeachment of all our honours."
Several of the sailors said things under their breath that sounded like "Honour be blowed", but Caspian said:
"Oh, bother you, Reepicheep. I almost wish we'd left you at home. All right! If you put it that way, I suppose we shall have to go on.

• See Lord (crazy Lord Rhoop) Lord Rhoop has been on this island for some time, driven insane by the dreams that had manifested:

"Where are you?" shouted Caspian. "Come aboard and welcome."
There came another cry, whether of joy or terror, and then they knew that someone was swimming towards them.
Edmund thought he had never seen a wilder looking man. Though he did not otherwise look very old, his hair was an untidy mop of white, his face was thin and drawn, and, for clothing, only a few wet rags hung about him. But what one mainly noticed were his eyes, which were so widely opened that he seemed to have no eyelids at all, and stared as if in an agony of pure fear.
…
"Thank you," he said at last. "You have saved me from... but I won't talk of that. And now let me know who you are. I am a Telmarine of Narnia, and when I was worth anything men called me the Lord Rhoop."

• Tempted to believe worst nightmares The crew begin to hallucinate, each hearing and seeing different things:

"Nevertheless you will fly from here," he gasped. "This is the Island where Dreams come true."
"That's the island I've been looking for this long time," said one of the sailors. "I reckoned I'd find I was married to Nancy if we landed here."
"And I'd find Tom alive again," said another.
"Fools!" said the man, stamping his foot with rage. "That is the sort of talk that brought me here, and I'd better have been drowned or never born. Do you hear what I say? This is where dreams — dreams, do you understand — come to life, come real. Not daydreams: dreams."
…
But no one could help listening. And soon everyone was hearing things. Each one heard something different.
"Do you hear a noise like... like a huge pair of scissors opening and shutting... over there?" Eustace asked Rynelf.
"Hush!" said Rynelf. "I can hear them crawling up the sides of the ship."
"It's just going to settle on the mast," said Caspian.
"Ugh!" said a sailor. "There are the gongs beginning. I knew they would."

• Freed by Aslan as an Albatross Lucy cries out to Aslan and asks him for help. Aslan appears as an albatross in a beam of light to guide the Dawntreader away from the dark island:

Lucy leant her head on the edge of the fighting-top and whispered, "Aslan, Aslan, if ever you loved us at all, send us help now." The darkness did not grow any less, but she began to feel a little — a very, very little — better. "After all, nothing has really happened to us yet," she thought.
"Look!" cried Rynelf's voice hoarsely from the bows. There was a tiny speck of light ahead, and while they watched a broad beam of light fell from it upon the ship. It did not alter the surrounding darkness, but the whole ship was lit up as if by a searchlight. Caspian blinked, stared round, saw the faces of his companions all with wild, fixed expressions. Everyone was staring in the same direction: behind everyone lay his black, sharply-edged shadow.
Lucy looked along the beam and presently saw something in it. At first it looked like a cross, then it looked like an aeroplane, then it looked like a kite, and at last with a whirring of wings it was right overhead and was an albatross. It circled three times round the mast and then perched for an instant on the crest of the gilded dragon at the prow. It called out in a strong sweet voice what seemed to be words though no one understood them. After that it spread its wings, rose, and began to fly slowly ahead, bearing a little to starboard. Drinian steered after it not doubting that it offered good guidance. But no one except Lucy knew that as it circled the mast it had whispered to her, "Courage, dear heart", and the voice, she felt sure, was Aslan's, and with the voice a delicious smell breathed in her face.
In a few moments the darkness turned into a greyness ahead, and then, almost before they dared to begin hoping, they had shot out into the sunlight and were in the warm, blue world again. And all at once everybody realised that there was nothing to be afraid of and never had been.

Other occurrences?

There are a few other instances that sort-of match the pattern:

When they come to the Lone Islands,

• Caspian, Edmund, Lucy Eustace and Reepicheep separate themselves from the rest of the group and are captured by pirates.  Caspian is further separated from the group and
• meets Lord Bern.
• There is no real temptation that occurs in this sequence.
• And Aslan does not appear to free them either.

As such, though there are similarities to the other instances, I do not think this is the same pattern playing out again.

When they come to Ramandu’s Island,

• the 5 heroes stay the night at the table by themselves where
• they stay with the last three of the seven Lords.
• There is no immediate temptation in this sequence.  The Dawntreader travels on toward the end of the world in order to free the last three lords.  When the Dawntreader can sail no further, Caspian is then tempted to seek glory by sailing to the end of the world with Reepicheep and the 3 kids from our world.
• Caspian ends up going into his cabin in anger where he encounters Aslan, where the golden lion’s head in the chamber becomes animated and speaks to him.

The ingredients are all present, but it does not really fit the pattern as it plays out over a large number of chapters with any number of distracting events occurring in between.  As such, I do not think this is the same pattern playing out here.

 All of the main characters in this story (except for Reepicheep who appears unaffected even at the Dark Island) have an episode in which they are tempted and are delivered out of trouble by Aslan.  I do not think there is any compare or contrast between Eustace, Edmund, Caspian and Lucy in these sequences.  To me, it seems that the nature of temptation is somewhat under focus.  Aslan seems to be the constant hope in temptation to deliver them from temptation and to restore them after they have fallen.

Someone stated recently in another thread that Aslan appears the least in this book.  Though his appearances are short, I think he might actually appear the most in this book.

 What do you think?

Across the grey hillside above them — grey, for the heather was not yet in bloom — without noise, and without looking at them, and shining as if he were in bright sunlight though the sun had in fact gone in, passed with slow pace the hugest lion that human eyes have ever seen. In describing the scene Lucy said afterwards, "He was the size of an elephant," though at another time she only said, "The size of a cart-horse." But it was not the size that mattered. Nobody dared to ask what it was. They knew it was Aslan.

And nobody ever saw how or where he went.

At that moment she heard soft, heavy footfalls coming along the corridor behind her; and of course she remembered what she had been told about the Magician walking in his bare feet and making no more noise than a cat. It is always better to turn round than to have anything creeping up behind your back. Lucy did so.
Then her face lit up till, for a moment (but of course she didn't know it), she looked almost as beautiful as that other Lucy in the picture, and she ran forward with a little cry of delight and with her arms stretched out. For what stood in the doorway was Aslan himself, the Lion, the highest of all High Kings. And he was solid and real and warm and he let her kiss him and bury herself in his shining mane. And from the low, earthquake-like sound that came from inside him, Lucy even dared to think that he was purring.
"Oh, Aslan," said she, "it was kind of you to come."
"I have been here all the time," said he, "but you have just made me visible."

I do not call you unfortunate,” said the Large Voice.
“Don’t you think it was bad luck to meet so many lions?” said Shasta.
“There was only one lion,” said the Voice.
“What on earth do you mean? I’ve just told you there were at least two the first night, and—”
“There was only one: but he was swift of foot.”
“How do you know?”
“I was the lion.”
And as Shasta gaped with open mouth and said nothing, the Voice continued. “I was the lion who forced you to join with Aravis.
I was the cat who comforted you among the houses of the dead. I was the lion who drove the jackals from you while you slept.
I was the lion who gave the Horses the new strength of fear for the last mile so that you should reach King Lune in time.
And I was the lion you do not remember who pushed the boat in which you lay, a child near death, so that it came to shore where a man sat, wakeful at midnight, to receive you.”
“Then it was you who wounded Aravis?”
“It was I.”
“But what for?”
“Child,” said the Voice, “I am telling you your story, not hers. I tell no one any story but his own.”

I give you a warning. Here on the mountain I have spoken to you clearly: I will not often do so down in Narnia. Here on the mountain, the air is clear and your mind is clear; as you drop down into Narnia, the air will thicken. Take great care that it does not confuse your mind. And the signs which you have learned here will not look at all as you expect them to look, when you meet them there. That is why it is so important to know them by heart and pay no attention to appearances. Remember the signs and believe the signs. Nothing else matters.

At that hour there came to Jill a dream. It seemed to her that she awoke in the same room and saw the fire, sunk low and red, and in the firelight the great wooden horse. And the horse came of its own will, rolling on its wheels across the carpet, and stood at her head. And now it was no longer a horse, but a lion as big as the horse. And then it was not a toy lion, but a real lion, The Real Lion, just as she had seen him on the mountain beyond the world’s end. And a smell of all sweet-smelling things there are filled the room. But there was some trouble in Jill’s mind, though she could not think what it was, and the tears streamed down her face and wet the pillow. The Lion told her to repeat the signs, and she found that she had forgotten them all. At that, a great horror came over her. And Aslan took her up in his jaws (she could feel his lips and his breath but not his teeth) and carried her to the window and made her look out. The moon shone bright; and written in great letters across the world or the sky (she did not know which) were the words UNDER ME. After that, the dream faded away, and when she woke, very late next morning, she did not remember that she had dreamed at all.

And he called out “Aslan! Aslan! Aslan! Come and help us now.”But the darkness and the cold and the quietness went on just the same.
“Let me be killed,” cried the King. “I ask nothing for myself. But come and save all Narnia.”
And still there was no change in the night or the wood, but there began to be a kind of change inside Tirian. Without knowing why, he began to feel a faint hope. And he felt somehow stronger. “Oh Aslan, Aslan,” he whispered. “If you will not come yourself, at least send me the helpers from beyond the world. Or let me call them. Let my voice carry beyond the world.” Then, hardly knowing that he was doing it, he suddenly cried out in a great voice:
“Children! Children! Friends of Narnia! Quick. Come to me. Across the worlds I call you; I Tirian, King of Narnia, Lord of Cair Paravel, and Emperor of the Lone Islands!”
And immediately he was plunged into a dream (if it was a dream) more vivid than any he had had in his life.
He seemed to be standing in a lighted room where seven people sat round a table. It looked as if they had just finished their meal. …
Eustace and Jill confirm, after they turn up, that Tirian had not dreamed but had been carried out of Narnia into our world for a moment:
Well then you came in like a ghost or goodness-knows-what and nearly frightened the lives out of us and vanished without saying a word. After that, we knew for certain there was something up. The next question was how to get here.

Posted by: @waggawerewolf27

If I were to assign a seven deadly sin to HHB it would be Pride, perhaps, just like I thought Sloth fitted The Silver Chair & Greed was the prevalent sin for VDT.

I am curious.  I know people have tried to apply different schemes to make sense of Narnia as a whole.  I believe a number of people have attempted to apply one of the seven deadly sins / the seven heavenly virtues to the Chronicles of Narnia.  Given you said ‘if you were to assign …”, I am guessing you do not subscribe to such a scheme, but I was curious nonetheless whether you see any validity in such ideas?  (Full disclosure, I am not convinced, but I have never really looked into it.

@waggawerewolf27 For the record, I do not always consider Caspian & Susan the perfect couple, for the reason that indeed it would cause fractures in Susan's story. But that doesn't change my opinion on the other topic and I think a multiple other queen options would've been way better. And I don't meant just my first oc choice, Ellita I had once offered 6 alternatives but I don't know whether I am allowed to share here. Just imagine that all of these girls actually have a character development that aligns with Caspian's.

Now, if Susan and the Pevensies were to stay in Narnia forever, dare I say that it would not make much difference and it could have been a good choice for the reason that they did not get to live in their own world much longer. They went to Aslan's country anyway. Perhaps if the train accident took place earlier, a more interesting scenario could've occurred with the Pevensies in Narnia. Of course that doesn't contradict Lewis' choice, it just gives it a different direction you know. 

Now in a scenario where indeed in the books Caspian and Susan were together I believe that indeed could've married and make a way better couple but ONLY in this scenario I am describing. Susan is of course, way more intelligent, bright, poised and has longer and better experience. She would've been a much better queen than Lilliandil, not just with Caspian but with anyone. Now what would've happened with the children they'd have and at the green kirtle? Idk. 

I am not claiming this should've been the plot 100%, I am just staying on the Susan part and what you've mentioned. Best choice for Caspian? Not really. A way better choice than Ramandu's Daughter? In another scenario absolutely yes. 

Hi @thef-maria

Posted by: @thef-maria

Susan is of course, way more intelligent, bright, poised and has longer and better experience. She would've been a much better queen than Lilliandil, not just with Caspian but with anyone. Now what would've happened with the children they'd have and at the green kirtle? Idk. 

Like you, I do not like the Waldon portrayal of Lilliandil.  (On another thread, someone asked me if I had an issue giving her a name.  I avoid giving Ramandu's daughter a name because the only version we have where she is given a name is the Waldon movie of "The Voyage of the Dawntreader", and this is my least favorite version of the character.  In the books, C.S. Lewis never gave her a name - which lessens her character, she is not even important enough to have a name, I am not going to defend that decision on Lewis' behalf. Nevertheless, I avoid giving her the name that she was given in what I consider to be her worst portrayal.)  In Waldon Media's defense though, they tried to expand her role.  I think, by giving her a name and giving her both the role she had in the book and her father's role, they were trying to make her a more substantial character.

Ramandu's daughter from the book has less to do in the story.  In all three versions that I have seen (the book, BBC and the Waldon movie) she does not have much of a part in the story.  I think you described her as an NPC (videogame 'Non-Playable Character') in one of the other threads.  I do not disagree with this description; she plays her role to keep the plot moving forward in the story, but we do not get to know her at all.

We get to know Susan much better than Ramandu's daughter.  I do not know what responsibilities Ramandu and his daughter really had on Ramandu's island (the birds bring the food and clean it from the table, but we do not know what else needed to be managed on the island - surely they have more to do than just sing to the rising sun each morning).

Lewis tells us in The Voyage of the Dawntreader:

Only two more things need to be told. One is that Caspian and his men all came safely back to Ramandu's Island. And the three lords woke from their sleep. Caspian married Ramandu's daughter and they all reached Narnia in the end, and she became a great queen and the mother and grandmother of great kings.

And in The Silver Chair:

They carried the dead Queen back to Cair Paravel, and she was bitterly mourned by Rilian and by the King, and by all Narnia. She had been a great lady, wise and gracious and happy, King Caspian’s bride whom he had brought home from the eastern end of the world. And men said that the blood of the stars flowed in her veins.

From what I read in the books, this could be true (I never got to know her, so how would I know any differently).  I agree that there is not much of an emotional pay off to seeing Caspian and Ramandu's Daughter get married (and technically, we do not get to see their romance or their marriage because it all happens off page).

I personally think Rillian would have had a more interesting story than his dad with regards to romance.  Given Rillian had been enchanted by the Lady of the Green Kirtle, he has experienced what I would consider the most toxic relationship ever.  When the witch talks to Rillian, Jill, Eustace and Puddleglum, with the scented fireplace and mandolin playing, she is absolutely gaslighting all four of them.  After this relationship, I could understand Rillian having some baggage and struggling to trust whoever he ended up marrying.  He clearly did marry and have a family.  Anyway, I do not read fan fiction, so I am probably wrong :).

Speaking of Rillian ...

In The Silver Chair, a repeated pattern that shows up is in connection with failure and the signs.  This pattern usually follows the following sequence:

1. A character behaves badly
2. Someone warns the character
3. Disaster
4. Rebuke
5. Signs

 This pattern show up first in Aslan’s country:

• Character behaves badly: Jill shows off on cliff face when she sees that Eustace is scared of heights:

Right ahead there were no trees: only blue sky.
…
They were at the very edge of a cliff.
…
Jill was one of those lucky people who have a good head for heights. She didn’t mind in the least standing on the edge of a precipice. She was rather annoyed with Scrubb for pulling her back—“just as if I was a kid,” she said—and she wrenched her hand out of his. When she saw how very white he had turned, she despised him.
“What’s the matter?” she said. And to show that she was not afraid, she stood very near the edge indeed; in fact, a good deal nearer than even she liked. Then she looked down.

• Warning: Eustace warns Jill that she is too close to the edge:

They went straight on without speaking till suddenly Jill heard Scrubb say, “Look out!” and felt herself jerked back.
…
“What are you doing, Pole? Come back—blithering little idiot!” shouted Scrubb. But his voice seemed to be coming from a long way off.

• Disaster: Eustace falls off the cliff because Jill is dizzy from being too close to the edge and knocks him off.

She now realized that Scrubb had some excuse for looking white, for no cliff in our world is to be compared with this. Imagine yourself at the top of the very highest cliff you know.
…
Jill stared at it. Then she thought that perhaps, after all, she would step back a foot or so from the edge; but she didn’t like to for fear of what Scrubb would think.
…
She felt him grabbing at her. But by now she had no control over her own arms and legs. There was a moment’s struggling on the cliff edge. Jill was too frightened and dizzy to know quite what she was doing, but two things she remembered as long as she lived (they often came back to her in dreams). One was that she had wrenched herself free of Scrubb’s clutches; the other was that, at the same moment, Scrubb himself, with a terrified scream, had lost his balance and gone hurtling to the depths.

• Rebuke: When Jill meets Aslan, Aslan rebukes her for showing off and harming Eustace:

“Human Child,” said the Lion. “Where is the Boy?”
“He fell over the cliff,” said Jill, and added, “Sir.” She didn’t know what else to call him, and it sounded cheek to call him nothing.
“How did he come to do that, Human Child?”
“He was trying to stop me from falling, Sir.”
“Why were you so near the edge, Human Child?”
“I was showing off, Sir.”
“That is a very good answer, Human Child. Do so no more.

• Signs: Aslan gives Jill the signs; if she had not thrown Scrubb off the cliff, both she and Eustace would have received the signs:

But your task will be the harder because of what you have done.”
“Please, what task, Sir?” said Jill.
“The task for which I called you and him here out of your own world.”
…
“These are the signs by which I will guide you in your quest. First; as soon as the Boy Eustace sets foot in Narnia, he will meet an old and dear friend. He must greet that friend at once; if he does, you will both have good help. Second; you must journey out of Narnia to the north till you come to the ruined city of the ancient giants. Third; you shall find a writing on a stone in that ruined city, and you must do what the writing tells you. Fourth; you will know the lost prince (if you find him) by this, that he will be the first person you have met in your travels who will ask you to do something in my name, in the name of Aslan.”

This pattern repeats when Jill and Eustace arrive at Cair Paravel:

• Character behaves badly: Eustace is a little ticked off at Jill for throwing him off a cliff. Eustace ignores Jill in his frustration:

“Scrubb!” she whispered, grabbing his arm. “Scrubb, quick! Do you see anyone you know?”
“So you’ve turned up again, have you?” said Scrubb disagreeably (for which he had some reason). “Well, keep quiet, can’t you? I want to listen.”

• Warning: Jill warns Scrubb that he needs to meet a friend, but Eustace does not pay much attention to her:

“Don’t be a fool,” said Jill. “There isn’t a moment to lose. Don’t you see some old friend here? Because you’ve got to go and speak to him at once.”
“What are you talking about?” said Scrubb.“It’s Aslan—the Lion—says you’ve got to,” said Jill despairingly. “I’ve seen him.”
“Oh, you have, have you? What did he say?”
“He said the very first person you saw in Narnia would be an old friend, and you’d got to speak to him at once.”
“Well, there’s nobody here I’ve ever seen in my life before; and anyway, I don’t know whether this is Narnia.”

• Disaster: King Caspian sails away without Scrub seeing him.

“What is the King’s name?” asked Eustace.
“Caspian the Tenth,” said the Owl. And Jill wondered why Scrubb had suddenly pulled up short in his walk and turned an extraordinary color. She thought she had never seen him look so sick about anything. But before she had time to ask any questions they had reached the dwarf, who was just gathering up the reins of his donkey and preparing to drive back to the castle.
…
And when you’re back in England—in our world—you can’t tell how time is going here. It might be any number of years in Narnia while we’re having one year at home. The Pevensies explained it all to me, but, like a fool, I forgot about it. And now apparently it’s been about seventy years—Narnian years—since I was here last. Do you see now? And I come back and find Caspian an old, old man.”
“Then the King was an old friend of yours!” said Jill. A horrid thought had struck her.
“I should jolly well think he was,” said Scrubb miserably. “About as good a friend as a chap could have. And last time he was only a few years older than me. And to see that old man with a white beard, and to remember Caspian as he was the morning we captured the Lone Islands, or in the fight with the Sea Serpent—oh, it’s frightful. It’s worse than coming back and finding him dead.”

• Rebuke: Jill rebukes Eustace for not listening to her and informs him about Aslan and the signs. Eustace, in turn, rebukes Jill for throwing him off a cliff in the first place:

“So you see,” she wound up, “you did see an old friend, just as Aslan said, and you ought to have gone and spoken to him at once. And now you haven’t, and everything is going wrong from the very beginning.”
“But how was I to know?” said Scrubb.
“If you’d only listened to me when I tried to tell you, we’d be all right,” said Jill.
“Yes, and if you hadn’t played the fool on the edge of that cliff and jolly nearly murdered me—all right, I said murder, and I’ll say it again as often as I like, so keep your hair on—we’d have come together and both known what to do.”

• Signs: Jill raises the point that they have missed the first sign:

“Oh, shut up,” said Jill impatiently. “It’s far worse than you think. We’ve muffed the first Sign.”

The next occurrence happens when our heroes miss the Ruined City of the Giants:

• Character behaves badly: After seeing the Lady of the Green Kirtle and the Black Knight, Jill and Eustace become obsessed with Harfang, warm fires and good food:

After that talk with the Lady things got worse in two different ways.
…
In the second place, whatever the Lady had intended by telling them about Harfang, the actual effect on the children was a bad one. They could think about nothing but beds and baths and hot meals and how lovely it would be to get indoors. They never talked about Aslan, or even about the lost prince, now. And Jill gave up her habit of repeating the signs over to herself every night and morning. She said to herself, at first, that she was too tired, but she soon forgot all about it. And though you might have expected that the idea of having a good time at Harfang would have made them more cheerful, it really made them more sorry for themselves and more grumpy and snappy with each other and with Puddleglum.
…
At last they came one afternoon to a place where the gorge in which they were traveling widened out and dark fir woods rose on either side. They looked ahead and saw that they had come through the mountains. Before them lay a desolate, rocky plain: beyond it, further mountains capped with snow. But between them and those further mountains rose a low hill with an irregular flattish top.
“Look! Look!” cried Jill, and pointed across the plain; and there, through the gathering dusk, from beyond the flat hill, everyone saw lights. Lights! Not moonlight, nor fires, but a homely cheering row of lighted windows. If you have never been in the wild wilderness, day and night, for weeks, you will hardly understand how they felt.
“Harfang!” cried Scrubb and Jill in glad, excited voices; and “Harfang,” repeated Puddleglum in a dull, gloomy voice.

• Warning: As Jill, Eustace and Puddleglum move through the strange landscape, Puddleglum states that maybe their surroundings relate to the signs:

In order to understand what followed, you must keep on remembering how little they could see. As they drew near the low hill which separated them from the place where the lighted windows had appeared, they had no general view of it at all. It was a question of seeing the next few paces ahead, and, even for that, you had to screw up your eyes. Needless to say, they were not talking.
When they reached the foot of the hill they caught a glimpse of what might be rocks on each side—squarish rocks, if you looked at them carefully, but no one did. All were more concerned with the ledge right in front of them which barred their way. It was about four feet high. The Marsh-wiggle, with his long legs, had no difficulty in jumping onto the top of it, and he then helped the others up. It was a nasty wet business for them, though not for him, because the snow now lay quite deep on the ledge. They then had a stiff climb—Jill fell once—up very rough ground for about a hundred yards, and came to a second ledge. There were four of these ledges altogether, at quite irregular intervals.
As they struggled onto the fourth ledge, there was no mistaking the fact that they were now at the top of the flat hill. Up till now the slope had given them some shelter; here, they got the full fury of the wind. For the hill, oddly enough, was quite as flat on top as it had looked from a distance: a great level tableland which the storm tore across without resistance.
…
Fighting her way forward with hood up and head down and numb hands inside her cloak, Jill had glimpses of other odd things on that horrible tableland—things on her right that looked vaguely like factory chimneys, and, on her left, a huge cliff, straighter than any cliff ought to be. But she wasn’t at all interested and didn’t give them a thought. The only things she thought about were her cold hands (and nose and chin and ears) and hot baths and beds at Harfang.
…
And it did seem hard when Puddleglum chose that moment for saying:
“Are you still sure of those signs, Pole? What’s the one we ought to be after now?”

• Disaster: Jill and Eustace are so obsessed with getting to Harfang that they miss the sign:

“Oh, come on! Bother the signs,” said Pole. “Something about someone mentioning Aslan’s name, I think. But I’m jolly well not going to give a recitation here.”
As you see, she had got the order wrong. That was because she had given up saying the signs over every night. She still really knew them, if she troubled to think: but she was no longer so “pat” in her lesson as to be sure of reeling them off in the right order at a moment’s notice and without thinking. Puddleglum’s question annoyed her because, deep down inside her, she was already annoyed with herself for not knowing the Lion’s lesson quite so well as she felt she ought to have known it. This annoyance, added to the misery of being very cold and tired, made her say, “Bother the signs.” She didn’t perhaps quite mean it.
“Oh, that was next, was it?” said Puddleglum. “Now I wonder, are you right? Got ‘em mixed, I shouldn’t wonder. It seems to me, this hill, this flat place we’re on, is worth stopping to have a look at. Have you noticed—”
“Oh Lor!” said Scrubb, “is this a time for stopping to admire the view? For goodness’ sake let’s get on.”

• Rebuke: That night, as Jill sleeps, Aslan meets her in a dream. Aslan asks Jill to tell him the signs, but she found that she had forgotten them. The dream acts as a rebuke for forgetting the signs:

And then came the deadest hour of the night and nothing stirred but mice in the house of the giants. At that hour there came to Jill a dream. It seemed to her that she awoke in the same room and saw the fire, sunk low and red, and in the firelight the great wooden horse. And the horse came of its own will, rolling on its wheels across the carpet, and stood at her head. And now it was no longer a horse, but a lion as big as the horse. And then it was not a toy lion, but a real lion, The Real Lion, just as she had seen him on the mountain beyond the world’s end. And a smell of all sweet-smelling things there are filled the room. But there was some trouble in Jill’s mind, though she could not think what it was, and the tears streamed down her face and wet the pillow. The Lion told her to repeat the signs, and she found that she had forgotten them all. At that, a great horror came over her. And Aslan took her up in his jaws (she could feel his lips and his breath but not his teeth) and carried her to the window and made her look out. The moon shone bright; and written in great letters across the world or the sky (she did not know which) were the words UNDER ME. After that, the dream faded away, and when she woke, very late next morning, she did not remember that she had dreamed at all.

• Signs: The next morning, as Jill, Eustace and Puddleglum look out over the landscape beneath Harfang, they see the ruined city of the giants and the broken pavement with the words ‘under me’ written on it. They have again missed the signs:

The sun was shining and, except for a few drifts, the snow had been almost completely washed away by the rain. Down below them, spread out like a map, lay the flat hill-top which they had struggled over yesterday afternoon; seen from the castle, it could not be mistaken for anything but the ruins of a gigantic city. It had been flat, as Jill now saw, because it was still, on the whole, paved, though in places the pavement was broken. The criss-cross banks were what was left of the walls of huge buildings which might once have been giants’ palaces and temples. One bit of wall, about five hundred feet high, was still standing; it was that which she had thought was a cliff. The things that had looked like factory chimneys were enormous pillars, broken off at unequal heights; their fragments lay at their bases like felled trees of monstrous stone. The ledges which they had climbed down on the north side of the hill—and also, no doubt the other ledges which they had climbed up on the south side—were the remaining steps of giant stairs. To crown all, in large, dark lettering across the center of the pavement, ran the words UNDER ME.
The three travelers looked at each other in dismay, and, after a short whistle, Scrubb said what they were all thinking, “The second and third signs muffed.” And at that moment Jill’s dream rushed back into her mind.
“It’s my fault,” she said in despairing tones. “I—I’d given up repeating the signs every night. If I’d been thinking about them I could have seen it was the city, even in all that snow.”

In many ways, the final occurrence is the anti-formula to the rest.  Things happen in a way that is theinverse of the earlier occurrences:

• Character behaves badly: There is not any bad behavior as such. The Kids and Puddleglum do rashly decide that they will not free the lunatic no matter what. This is pragmatic, but it is not what Aslan had told them to do. The conflict will come because they had promised not to free the dark knight no matter what, they probably should not have made this promise to one another. (Having said that, I would have probably done the same in their shoes.)

“There’s no fear of our loosing you,” said Puddleglum. “We’ve no wish to meet wild men; or serpents either.”
“I should think not,” said Scrubb and Jill together.
“All the same,” added Puddleglum in a whisper. “Don’t let’s be too sure. Let’s be on our guard. We’ve muffed everything else, you know. He’ll be cunning, I shouldn’t wonder, once he gets started. Can we trust one another? Do we all promise that whatever he says we don’t touch those cords? Whatever he says, mind you?”
“Rather!” said Scrubb.
“There’s nothing in the world he can say or do that’ll make me change my mind,” said Jill.

• Warning: The Dark Knight surprises everyone by calling on the name of Aslan. If Jill had still remembered the signs, she would have known that this is the sure sign that he is Prince Rilian, but neither she nor her companions remember this. All three pilgrims realize that this is the sign, but they do not remember its full significance:

“Once and for all,” said the prisoner, “I adjure you to set me free. By all fears and all loves, by the bright skies of Overland, by the great Lion, by Aslan himself, I charge you—”
“Oh!” said the three travelers as though they had been hurt. “It’s the sign,” said Puddleglum.

• Disaster?: They now have to decide whether to set this man free (and possibly be killed) or to leave him tied up and fail their mission. This would have been a disaster if they had not made the right decision this time:

“It was the words of the sign,” said Scrubb more cautiously. “Oh, what are we to do?” said Jill.
It was a dreadful question. What had been the use of promising one another that they would not on any account set the Knight free, if they were now to do so the first time he happened to call upon a name they really cared about? On the other hand, what had been the use of learning the signs if they weren’t going to obey them? Yet could Aslan have really meant them to unbind anyone—even a lunatic—who asked it in his name? Could it be a mere accident? Or how if the Queen of the Underworld knew all about the signs and had made the Knight learn this name simply in order to entrap them? But then, supposing this was the real sign? … They had muffed three already; they daren’t m**f the fourth.

• Rebuke: As they ponder whether they should set the Black Knight free, Puddleglum says that there is no excuse for not following Aslan’s signs. This serves as a rebuke if the decide not to set the man free:

“Oh, if only we knew!” said Jill.
“I think we do know,” said Puddleglum.
“Do you mean you think everything will come right if we do untie him?” said Scrubb.
“I don’t know about that,” said Puddleglum. “You see, Aslan didn’t tell Pole what would happen. He only told her what to do. That fellow will be the death of us once he’s up, I shouldn’t wonder. But that doesn’t let us off following the sign.”

• Signs: Once our heroes faithfully follow the sign, their mission succeeds and they have indeed found Prince Rilian:

“Come on, Scrubb,” said Puddleglum. He and Scrubb drew their swords and went over to the captive.
“In the name of Aslan,” they said, and began methodically cutting the cords. The instant the prisoner was free, he crossed the room in a single bound, seized his own sword (which had been taken from him and laid on the table), and drew it.
…
“What?” he cried, turning to Puddleglum. “Do I see before me a Marsh-wiggle—a real, live, honest, Narnian Marsh-wiggle?”
“Oh, so you have heard of Narnia, after all?” said Jill.
“Had I forgotten it when I was under the spell?” asked the Knight. “Well, that and all other bedevilments are now over. You may well believe that I know Narnia, for I am Rilian, Prince of Narnia, and Caspian the great King is my father.”

The repetition in ‘how the signs are encountered’ seems to supply a compare and contrast between when the children obey Aslan verses when they ignore what he has commanded them to do. I find it fascinating that there is always a warning before they fail to keep the signs: Jill tells Eustace that this is the moment to keep the signs: he needs to meet his good friend, likewise Puddleglum flags that the ruined city of the giants probably relates to the signs - even though the signs do not look the way the kids expected, they are told in the moment to pay attention and still miss the sign.  As such, this pattern does seem to point to a theme of obedience. Even more so, I think it points to the need to focus on Aslan and what he has made known. Through out the story, when things go wrong, it is because the characters are being somewhat selfish and their selfishness distracts them from what really matters. Their tendency to get distracted shows that they do not really value Aslan’s signs (and possibly Aslan, himself) as much as they should. When they finally follow the signs Aslan gave them, trusting him, things work out and they are able to save Prince Rilian.

@thef-maria Susan is of course, way more intelligent, bright, poised and has longer and better experience. She would've been a much better queen than Lilliandil, not just with Caspian but with anyone.

Um, Rabadash? Now there's a bloke, prince or not, who'd give anyone nightmares.  

According to one published author, Susan (or her real-life alias) died as an unmarried, elderly professor of children's literature. Douglas Gresham, C.S. Lewis' stepson, said in 2013 that for all we know Susan could be someone's great-grandmother, living somewhere near the college he was speaking at, in South Caroliina or thereabouts, I think. Of course, to be a great-grandmother one really would need a spot of romance in one's life. For my own attempt at a Susan fanfiction I chose an American Caspian-lookalike for Susan to marry - someone she'd likely met when she went with Mr & Mrs Pevensie in VDT. But Peter can't get Susan to even mention Narnia, & Susan dismisses "those funny games we played as children".  I had all the seven friends of Narnia attending the wedding of course, & having seen her off on her honeymoon, they were just clearing up the hall, stopping for a cup of tea & a chat, when Tirian came along. 

@davidd Disaster: Jill and Eustace are so obsessed with getting to Harfang that they miss the sign:

Marvellous what a bit of misinformation, or propaganda might do. How much of LOTGK's "magic" was just propaganda, plausibility & amnesia can do. Of course, they are too tormented by the thoughts of lodgings for the night to think clearly, let alone to be able to remember the signs. It was just as well that having tended to their creature comforts, Jill had that nightmare with Aslan rebuking her for forgetting the signs. Trouble was the only lodgings that seemed available was the Narnian equivalent to Hitchcock's Bate's motel in Psycho. 

When there are seven books in the Narnian series, it is tempting to allot each book to one or other of the seven deadly sins. We were going through HHB further up the thread, and when so many of the main characters were guilty of the sin of pride, that was the seven deadly sins I allotted to that book. For The Silver Chair, I allotted the sin of Sloth, when the opposite of Sloth is Perseverance. So how do we allot each book to a sin?

• Magican's Nephew=
• Lion the Witch & the Wardrobe-
• Horse & His Boy - Pride: How many people are proud, arrogant etc? Humility is the opposite virtue. Shasta & Hwin, for example.
• Prince Caspian =
• Voyage of the Dawn Treader-
• The Silver Chair-Sloth; Remembering & forgetting the Signs, Perseverence, nonetheless, as the opposite virtue. 
• The Last Battle -

The trickiest one would be Voyage of the Dawn Treader, especially when each of the missing lords also represents a deadly sin, one could say.

Lord Bern - Sloth - he'd gone as far away from Narnia as he wanted to, met the girl of his dreams & settled down. Just as well he remembered what Casian's father looked like. And yes, everything about the Lone Islands suggests slovenliness.

Lord Octesian - Greed, of course, when he happened on a pile of dragon's treasure. Along came Eustace making the same mistake. Octesian's arm ring, making being a dragon such a painful experience for Eustace attested to his unfortunate demise.

Lord Restimar -  Pride - poor bloke went for a swim on a hot day. Too bad the water was unsafe - maybe he should have tested it first, as did Caspian or Edmund, not sure which. The unfortunate Lord turned into a gold statue, just like Joan of Arc in Pyramid Place in the centre of Paris. An ungilded version remains outside Melbourne's State Library, as far as I know. 

Lord Rhoop - Desire (or Lust)  When following one's heart's desire can become a nightmare on Dark Island. 

Now comes a tricky part. On Ramandu's Island the three remaining Lords have fallen into a sleep - literally vegetating. One of them picked up the stone knife on the table - Lord Argoz, I think it was. So the sin of Anger springs to mind. He was the one who wanted to go forward, like Jason in the Argo. 

His opposite number, who I think was Lord Revillian, wanted to return to Narnia. Whilst a third, identified by Reepicheep as Lord Mavramorn, merely wanted to stay put. On being partially woken from his slumber, he said "Mustard please", so I selected him for gluttony, being partial to mustard, myself.  

What deadly sin have I forgotten? Anger, Gluttony, Sloth, Greed, Pride, Lust and...?

How would everyone else sort it out? 

Posted by: @waggawerewolf27

What deadly sin have I forgotten? Anger, Gluttony, Sloth, Greed, Pride, Lust and...?

Envy.  

How would everyone else sort it out? 

I wouldn't. I seriously wouldn't. I've said it before and I'll say it again: C.S. Lewis was adamant that his Narnia books were NOT built on any deeper scheme that readers are meant to decode somehow. He said that a number of times in different ways, and he decried the tendency of some readers to find hidden meanings in his and other authors' works that the author never intended at all. That's why Michael Ward's "Planet Narnia" thesis, for example, is totally wrong-headed — because it blatantly goes against all Lewis's stated intentions about his own works. If you accept Ward's theories, you have to believe that Lewis was lying about how he himself wrote (and didn't write). I for one can't do that.

It can be amusing to play these elaborate games with the Chronicles and try to find supposed patterns in them and to match bits of them up with some theoretical scheme, like the seven deadly sins or medieval astrology or Biblical narratives. But considering how many times the author himself took pains to explain that that is not how he wrote and not how he wanted his books to be read, I can only conclude it's an extended exercise in Missing the Point Entirely.

Each to their own, of course, but I really would rather just read the books themselves and love them for what they are and what they mean to me, instead of pulling them to bits in an effort to find secret meanings and schemes that aren't actually there. Honestly.

Posted by: @waggawerewolf27

Um, Rabadash? Now there's a bloke, prince or not, who'd give anyone nightmares.

@waggawerewolf27 Oh no I wasn't talking about Rabadash! Like I was talking about anyone else. I mean there aren't many available choices for Susan in the books themselves but Caspian himself. But it is true that she would make a way better queen than Lilliandil with a potential Prince or king or even Caspian because she does have strong experience, she is way more intelligent and all that. 

Actually if a character like Susan, who is naturally a Narnian and not from the real world, was included in the books of course I would have her with Caspian because of course they would match better. But the issue of course are the cracks between their worlds in th ebooks which would make it impossible. 

Rabadash isn't included  

@courtenay That's why Michael Ward's "Planet Narnia" thesis, for example, is totally wrong-headed — because it blatantly goes against all Lewis's stated intentions about his own works.

I didn't realise that, when, prior to 16/10/2014, I actually did buy "The Narnia Code: C. S. Lewis and the Secret of the Seven Heavens" written by Michael Ward. I'm definitely not convinced about his matching up C.S. Lewis' Narnia series with the Sun, Moon & classical planets, as Michael Ward actually did do. I presume my kindle edition is just another title for "Planet Narnia" when I am aware that the same book can have different titles depending on which country in which it is being published. I thought that theme-wise, the seven deadly sins & opposite virtues would be a far more realistic overarching theme than going out on a limb with planets etc, even if it was only by accident.

JK Rowling did plan & plot out her 7 volume Harry Potter series, & on another site, I did draw a comparison between the Seven Defence against the Dark Arts teachers and the Seven Missing Lords of Voyage of the Dawn Treader, wondering if the same pattern existed in the 7 Narnia books. However, in VDT, in particular, as I've mentioned here, assigning a sin to each of the Lords would be tricky. And I've tried to do it a couple of times, now. 

For example, those three Lords, so innocently asleep at Aslan's Table can't have done anything wrong, apart from the one of the three, who picked up the Stone Knife. I allotted Gluttony for the one who asked for Mustard please, but I do agree that asking for mustard, wouldn't really "cut the mustard".    And now I come to think about it, longing to go back to Narnia, as the third sleeper said, cannot possibly be misconstrued as "envy", so thank you for reminding me.  

Originally, I thought Lust (in this case Exploitation), would be appropriate for Caspian, Edmund, Lucy, Reepicheep & Eustace's adventure on the Lone Islands, when surely slavery is definitely exploitation. But then I thought of Governor Gumpas' burying himself in red tape, with charts, reports etc, whilst Lust (Desire) would be a better fit for Lord Rhoop, lured into visiting Dark Island with the promise that all his dreams would come true and when nothing else really comes to mind. 

@davidd, a couple of entries back, suggested Greed for the Voyagers' adventure at Deathwater Island, but I disagreed when I'd already pegged Greed as Eustace's motive for taking all that gold & even Lord Octesian's arm-ring, which he pushed up past his elbow. I thought Pride was a better fit for the Deathwater Island adventure, because of Edmund's & Caspian's trying to pull rank on each other, & even Lucy's joining the quarrel, when they saw Aslan. Though @davidd was right when Greed could apply to both Deathwater Island & Dragon Island. Pride might match the one of the 3 sleepers who picked up the White Witch's stone knife, but neither sin, or even gluttony, could be fairly sheeted home to either our mustard eater or the remaining seventh missing lord, slumbering on at the table with the two others.  

And when @davidd tells us about Lucy's temptations when she was reading the Magician's Book, yes, you could interpret that as Pride - or Vanity. I'm not quite so sure what actual sin she did commit by wanting to eavesdrop on a friend through magic. I get the idea that outside Narnia, Lucy might be a rather insecure young lady. Yes, eavesdroppers hear no good about themselves, & I've heard plenty of what happens to journalists and the like who tap phones etc. And I agree with the producers of Walden's Voyage of the Dawn Treader that temptation, itself, was a major theme of that book, though that green mist effect rather pushed the message too much. Overall if I was assigning a sin to VDT it would have to be Greed, or was it really Envy?