I guess I could post something. I haven't been writing much lately. I really ought to focus and finish both my NaNo novels (last years and this years). I really want to finish last years because I really like it. This years, however, I couldn't make it turn out exactly like I planned so I don't think I'll ever try to do anything with it unless I re-write it.

It's so hard to write Christian books. I like to write action/adventure books and it's hard to write a Christian who goes around shooting people. I suppose they could repent at the end but that's so cliched. I've thought about not writing Christian books but instead, writing ones that are morally and ethically sound. Then, if I ever get published, people might read my books because they aren't Christian but would still be getting morals and solid ethics out of them.

In answer to a question about endings, I like happy endings but there needs to be kind of a twist. Something that doesn't turn out exactly like you expected. But it's still a good ending. That probably makes no sense at all.

I'll be doing more writing this semester although not fiction. I'm taking a Journalism class so I'll be writing articles and I have to get at least one published in my campus newspaper. When that happens, I'll post a link. That'll be the first thing I'll have ever gotten published.

I can't tell if you're being sardonic or not.

I think you could read it both ways. If you'd asked me what I remember about Kidnapped, I would say that it was about a kid dragged all over the Highlands, with only a wee bit of water involved, and pirates on land are less associated with the more romantic qualities of the word 'pirate'. Going back to your original point, I agree that the exciting parts of Kidnapped do tend to get lost in the writing. After all, I've read it twice now, and I still can't tell you much about it -- and isn't the point of writing to convey some sort of lasting idea about life, the universe, and everything to your reader?

Mixing two different styles sounds like it could have some really fun results, presumably along the lines of Star Wars in the style of Dr. Seuss?

re: endings: I believe in happy endings and writing things with a hopeful outlook. As Lady Haleth pointed out awhile back in the Books! thread, my go-to example of a fitting tragic ending is not one without hope. I want to write things people would want to read, and since I would not want to read something where bad things happen and there is ultimately nothing redemptive about it -- I hope I wouldn't write it either.

stardf, I quite like your idea of writing stories that are more slice of life than overcoming huge obstacles.

wild rose, is there any conflict between your two characters? Does the girl trust the boy right away, or vice versa? Do they have fun together? If it's just the two of them in the story, then they are what should capture the reader's interest. They should be at least as important, if not more so, than the plot.

Stardf, narnian_at_heart,

I propose you take a look at the link in my siggy. Stardf, I know you haven't been around lately so I think you missed my announcement when this happened. I am published and I wrote a Christian fiction adventure/action thriller. I'm currently working on my sequel, but that's going very slow with grad school and student teaching. I've had a lot of impressed responses from my readers and I think you'd like it. I do have fantasy elements but my main theme is spiritual warfare. So I can do the action and battle scenes without making it questionable.

I found a list of tips and rules on writing. I wanted to show it to you guys, to hear your thoughts. Personally, while reading, I've quite liked the use of a lot of the methods they say to avoid. I was wondering if their advice is sound, and if so, why?

The list advised:

- Never use parenthesis.
- Do use understatements.
- Never use comparisons.
- Never use analogies
- Never use adjectives or adverbs
- Never use words ending in -ly
- never write one word sentences
- never use the passive voice
- never use rhetorical questions
- Never use words like "don't" or "aren't". Always spell it out as "do not" and "are not".

Some of these rules seem strange to me. For example, not using one word sentences. From what I've seen, people use that as a sort of dramatic effect, and it usually works quite well. I see many books use one word sentences, in passages such as these --

The house would be empty tonight. Perfect.

and

Cold. All I feel is overwhelming cold every night and day.

Would the above examples be considered unacceptable, due to some of the sentences having only one word?

C.S. Lewis used parentheses quite a bit. The only books I've seen that used "are not" instead of "aren't" in every case were children's books.

What do they mean when they say we should use understatements?

Also, if we can't use adjectives, adverbs, -ly words, comparisons, or analogies, what is the proper way of writing a description?

P.S. We talked about Twilight so much on this thread, ads for Breaking Dawn are now showing on the sidebar.

~Riella

It is my understanding that () describes the author's thoughts. I do that in my posts here. Usually when I have something in parenthesis, it is a little side note relevant to that immediate phrase, but doesn't fully merit full sentences. As for the rest of the list, I go with Barbossa's line from Pirates of the Caribbean. "The Code is more what you'd call 'guidelines than actual rules."

As with do's and don'ts (and contractions), we use contractions in speaking primarily. In writing, we use contractions because we tend to write the way we talk. I do agree with this, but with a modification. In narration, don't use contraction. In dialogue, a lack of contractions makes it seem too formal. Only skip the contractions in dialogue if the speaker has a very proper way of speaking. In dialogue, you get to break a lot of rules because you have to go with out the character speaks.

I found a list of tips and rules on writing. I wanted to show it to you guys, to hear your thoughts. Personally, while reading, I've quite liked the use of a lot of the methods they say to avoid. I was wondering if their advice is sound, and if so, why?

Ack. o.o That is... really, really bad advice. Breaking it down...

- Never use parenthesis.

Parentheses are reserved for stories written in character voice third person (such as the works of C.S. Lewis or Lewis Carroll, though the latter wrote Literary Nonsense, so... ). It's used for lighter works--including but not limited to stories written specifically for children. You're not likely to see it in very formal writing, but they're not bad per se.

- Do use understatements.

Not quite sure what they're getting at here, but we often have have the tendency to overstate (the eyes can never be just pretty, they must be stunning, enchanting, and completely alluring; the room is not only large, it is gigantic and enormous and huge). So I'd say this is not a bad rule--let the room be simply 'large,' and let the reader fill in the other details.

- Never use comparisons
- Never use analogies

These are questions of style. Often writers try to get too clever with these techniques, thus making their writing dull and overbearing. So, the rule is better stated as rarely use X instead of never.

- Never write one word sentences

Most grammar books agree that they should be avoided. That being said, on occasion, a one word sentence might be better--it's a bit like starting a sentence with "and." Whenever you want to use this, make absolutely certain that it's the only way to get across the feeling you're looking for.

- Never use adjectives or adverbs
- Never use words ending in -ly

The problem is not with adjectives or adverbs (and certainly not with the suffix -ly!), but rather a writer's dependency on them. If you are using these words because you want to inflate a count, or perhaps because you don't feel your noun/verb is strong enough, then get rid of them and think of a better root word. If, on the other hand, you're using them because it makes your initial word better, richer, more flowing--then by all means, describe away. Don't write "ran swiftly" if you can write "sprinted" or "dashed," but please do write that the dresser is "mahogany" or that he turned "slowly," if the narrative calls for it.

- Never use the passive voice

Again with this word "never." Yes, you should avoid it when you're able--it leads to some rather horrid writing. Take a peek at any legislation and you'll be bored within the first paragraph, and if you'll note, the majority of it is written in passive voice. Still, the passive voice does exist for a reason, and should not always be scorned. The passive is particularly useful, even recommended, in two situations (allow me to quote a grammar blog): 1, When it is more important to draw our attention to the person or thing acted upon: "The unidentified victim was apparently struck during the early morning hours", and 2, When the actor in the situation is not important: "The aurora borealis can be observed in the early morning hours."

- Never use rhetorical questions

Unless the rhetorical is coming from a character's thoughts, then from what I understand, this is probably a sound rule. I'd hesitate to say "never," though.

- Never use words like "don't" or "aren't". Always spell it out as "do not" and "are not".

I have never heard anyone suggest that this rule be used outside of essays or scientific reports. Just out of curiosity, I decided to look through a few books to see if they followed these rules--I grabbed seven from my literature shelf, and five of them (Alice in Wonderland, Voyage of the Dawn Treader, Huckleberry Finn, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, and Murder on the Orient Express) had contractions (not in dialogue) within the first chapter; half by the end of the first page. The two that did not were The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and Pride and Prejudice. So, take from that what you will--at any case, it's certainly not a hard and fast rule.

How to Write Good

1 Avoid alliteration. Always.
2 Prepositions are not words to end sentences with.
3 Avoid cliches like the plague. (They’re old hat.)
4 Employ the vernacular.
5 Eschew ampersands & abbreviations, etc.
6 Parenthetical remarks (however relevant) are unnecessary.
7 It is wrong to ever split an infinitive.
8 Contractions aren’t necessary.
9 Foreign words and phrases are not apropos.
10 One should never generalize.
11 Eliminate quotations. As Ralph Waldo Emerson once said, “I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.”
12 Comparisons are as bad as cliches.
13 Don’t be redundant; don’t use more words than necessary; it’s highly superfluous.
14 Be more or less specific.
15 Understatement is always best.
16 Exaggeration is a billion times worse than understatement.
17 One word sentences? Eliminate.
18 Analogies in writing are like feathers on a snake.
19 The passive voice is to be avoided.
20 Go around the barn at high noon to avoid colloquialisms.
21 Even if a mixed metaphor sings, it should be derailed.
22 Who needs rhetorical questions?

Nice, Arwenel! Did you come up with those? Or is it a repost?

Ok, so I completely agree with badger, on the rules. What set off the red flag in my head when I saw the list was the extreme amount of 'never's. Basically I see writing rules as this, when you're still learning (perhaps about a certain style or situation) then follow them. However, once you are experienced you are perfectly allowed to break them. Some, like not using passive voice, should be followed most of the time because they are trying to strengthen the writing. However, something like the "don't use contractions" is really just a preference. (I mean, really, the only place I've seen it used as a hard and fast rule was for a certain prof at the college I went to. She'd flunk people on contractions and vague pronouns alone!)

So if you see a rule that you're not sure about, try it out and see if it works for you. If it doesn't, chuck it and make up your own rule.

I'm constantly being surprised at how books break rules. For example, I just finished reading the book "The Calligrapher's Daughter" today. It broke a major rule. The book is written in 1st POV from the POV of 4 characters! And only one of those 4 is the MC. However, the book is brilliant and a really good read. And it was the farthest thing from confusing (though the beginning is a bit awkward since the first chapter is from the 1st POV of a 5 year-old girl). I consider 1st POV to be my favorite POV and the one I'm most experienced in. Yet, this book blew me completely out of the water and challenged presuppositions of mine about 1st POV.

I think the best advice I've heard is, if you're gonna break a rule, make sure you do it brilliantly because then no one will complain.

~Anna

Nice one, Arwenel! (I think I've seen that before).

I agree with Menelve regarding that list's continuous use of 'never.'

A few comments on those rules: Fencer makes a good point about contractions. Dialogue (especially set in modern times) would sound pretty stiff without them, in most cases. But narrative usually sounds better without them.

Narnian_Badger uses a perfect example regarding the passive voice (observing the aurora). Scientific papers and reports are largely written in the passive voice. It can make for dry reading, but it's expected in that setting. But most of us (I suspect) are writing fiction and thus should use the passive very carefully.

It's good to be aware of these guidelines; they'll help us write better. But enforcing them too strictly can be a straight jacket. As Menelve says, you can break a rule if you do it brilliantly.

A few comments on other topics recently raised...

The thing about viewpoints, and why I could probably never do first person, is that I can't seem to tell a novel-length story from just one person's point of view.

My longer works (such as NaNo) tend to be in third person, at least partially for this reason (allowing multiple perpsectives or 'omniscience.'). I've written some short stories in first person. For NaNo 2010 I tried writing from several perspectives (third, and first person from several characters) and think it worked out all right.

My current project is novel length in first person. But I'm still finding I've had to switch to third for some narration. This may be a limitation in my writing skill, or maybe just laziness.

...stardf, I quite like your idea of writing stories that are more slice of life than overcoming huge obstacles.

Ditto. It may not be 'epic' but it's more true to life. Some of my short stories and at least sections of my longer stories are slice of life, a look behind the scenes at my characters' lives.

...does any one have any idea how to keep a story more or less interesting, even when the amount of characters is shall we say, limited?

Mel offered some good advice. Focus on developing these characters. My NaNo this year was rather short on characters too; it was intended to be a study of how a couple of them (one in particular) respond to the death of a family member. (Not sure how well it turned out - it's not even finished yet - but it's a story I'm writing primarily for my own practice rather than being published).

Glad to see so much action in this thread!

OK this may be slightly controversial but writing, when you're still just writing for yourself and before you've even got to the end of the first draft should have no rules at all. Even against clichés which I absolutely HATE. No rules at all. When you read through you will go ugh that sounds awful there oh no that needs changing etc. etc. etc. writing is personal expression and nobody writes perfectly just write and mould it later. OK I've said my tuppence worth, if you just get one thing from this let it be keep writing!

That's an excellent point, Jill, and one encouraged by NaNoWriMo - just WRITE, especially on that first draft. Get your thoughts down on paper (or monitor ) and worry about rules, editing, even grammar, later on. Write while your muse inspires; the polishing and fine-tuning can wait.

Overall, it's best to just get the story out. If you let your initial thoughts get bogged down by the 'rules', you won't ever finish a draft. When I do my first drafts, I get into such a frenzy that I don't think about anything but what happens next in the story. The 'rules' are what you use in the editing process. As you get more experienced in writing overall, you can write in such a way that you can reduce the editing process, but that takes experience in both writing and editing. And most of us (if not all) are not at that stage. In my sequel I am on my second re-write (third draft). I hope it is my last (not including fine tuning). I was expecting my second draft to be the finalization of the main plot line but that didn't happen. That's part of the life of a writer. But the key thing is to write, write, write. Rules and polishing can be done later, no matter how tedious and how much there will be to do.

I usually pay attention to the rules of grammar, rules of writing I want to implement, etc. while I write my first draft. With me, it hasn't ever made my thoughts get bogged down. I still go through and edit it afterwards, though, to make sure there's nothing I've missed.

And also, before I begin writing, I make an in-depth outline of all the things that happen in the chapter. Sometimes I'll write some one-sentence or one-paragraph passages ahead of time, if inspiration hits me. And I'll make a list of words I want to use in descriptions. So it helps me that I already have a lot of material to work with before I even begin the first draft.

This method has always worked well for me, and I have usually been able to write 50,000 words in one or two weeks while using it.

The main thing is this: if a method works for you, and helps your writing, use it. If it hinders you, toss it. Everyone thinks, and therefore writes, differently. Find out your way of doing it best, and go with that.

~Riella

Interviewee #16: Ellesar is up on my blog! http://annamittower.blogspot.com/2012/02/interview-16-ellesar.html

Edit: Interviewee #17: wild rose is up! http://annamittower.blogspot.com/2012/02/interview-17-wild-rose.html

~Anna

@ Menelve: Thanks for posting your interviews! They have been fun to read.

Very excited because I should be able to get my computer in a month so I can start writing again!!! It's been a whole year since my computer broke and I've been going crazy without it!