7chronicles, traveling scenes are always fun. You can do a lot with them. You could make them sing songs like Tolkien did. My favorite is making my character talk to himself and then once he's talked for long enough or short enough I'd write something like "soon enough Dimitri found himself by the river". I would put myself in that position and think what would I do? What would I say? It usually works but you have to remember not to get too out of character.

The best scenes I've written were in class. And no not english class. I can never force myself to sit down and write. It's always been if the story comes to me, it comes to me. If it doesn't I don't have a story.

Good advice! Things like that are going to be corrected in the next edition of The Black Galloper. For some reason it took Estam (the hero) six or seven days to ride across the country, while it took Elwen (the heroine of my current book), and her friends only three days to ride the same or greater distance! All that I need to correct there are details, nothing major. (As an aside, if you make a map, do not color it in with markers. It makes it very hard to read. I've found this out by experience.)
But one of my short stories needs major corrections. It is a story about a battle that takes place during a famine, when the side with less food (The Northlanders) starts stealing from the side who has more, but still not enough (The Southlanders). Neither side was supposed to be good or bad, but now I've realized that I've portrayed the Southlanders as good--and their leader as a perfect saint--and the Northlanders as mostly mistaken or crazy unless they are secretly in sympathy with the Southlanders. I think the best thing to do would be to make both sides mainly concerned with themselves, and not have the Southland leader be so superhumanly unselfish, and to go into the past of the Northland leader more, (the dialogue also needs work) but does anyone have any other ideas for writing a conflict where neither side is totally good or totally evil?

@Lady Haleth: Look at life! Life is painted in shades of grey rather than in black and white. Wars have happened where neither side is really a good or a bad guy. Furthermore, even if you do have some super bad guys on one side, that doesn't mean that those standards hold true for every character on that side.

Look for the reasons why each soldier is fighting. See the bad traits in an essentially good character and find out ways to make him rounded. This does not mean that there aren't mostly good characters. Most good guys have some bad traits, and are still good guys. Even people that have gone down in history as good have some selfish or sinful qualities. Look at Peter the Apostle!

I think that the goal is to make rounded characters, and that's believable.

@FencerforJesus: Thanks! That’s a good idea, I think I’ll read some of The Fellowship of the Ring to see how some of the walking scenes play out.

7chronicles:At first, most of those scenes read something along the lines of, "They got up early in the morning, ate breakfast, walked, stopped for lunch, walked some more, set up camp, ate dinner, and went to bed." It was monotonous, and I found myself writing for the sake of filling up pages to make it sound like they were traveling longer.

Yeah that’s where I’m at right now, Thanks for your advice! It helps me out a lot!

@sillygoose: Thanks! I like the idea of them the character talking to themselves.

I was planning on having my group of characters ride horses in the second book because the situation they are in requires them to accomplish their task quickly. But maybe I’ll introduce the horses in the first book to speed things along. I’ll have to give it some thought.
Oh, and while I’m on the subject of horses, would it be bad to have two characters per horse, or should each character have their own horse?

Thanks again for all of your guys help.

Hey, fellow writers!

I don't know how often I'll pop in here, or if I'll end up sharing anything of mine. (just yet, anyway) But I wanted to tell you I've really enjoyed looking through this thread. And it's made me think of some things that I hadn't thought of. So, thanks for always being willing to give advice. I guess, I'll know where to turn if I need help!

Best of luck to all of you! And I can't wait for the day I can hold your books in my hands, and say "I knew them when..."

Edit:
Speaking of music being involved in writing...
I don't always listen to music while doing the actual writing. Though sometimes I do. See, my book (it's going to be the first in a series), is set in the summer of 1989. And so, what's been fun for me is watching reruns of 80's shows, or listening to songs from then, or watching movies I grew up with. (the original Karate Kid, for example. or The Outsiders. See, I was born in 1983 )

My point is, knowing what was current when my book takes place, helps me somehow. And knowing my characters as well as I do, I can guess at which groups (and songs from those groups) were the favourites of my characters. And what shows they liked. My characters are fourteen... and if how I was at that age is any indication, kids are always referencing their favourite things... or quoting them. For crying out loud, I still do that at age 26!

It just makes everything more realistic. And the bonus for me, is that I get to know the stuff even better, that I only knew a little bit when I was small. Who doesn't like reliving their childhood?! I love the fact that my research feels more like playing!

7chronicles, it would probably be the best for each person to have their own horse. And I've found it helps to remember that horses aren't like cars. They can get tired and shy at things, and like Bree said, 'can't gallop for a day and a night.' I always like it when fantasy horses act like horses.
sweeetlilgurlie, thanks for the advice! I'll be sure and remember that.

Lady Haleth

And I've found it helps to remember that horses aren't like cars. They can get tired and shy at things, and like Bree said, 'can't gallop for a day and a night.'

That's something I have to keep reminding myself of when I'm writing. The novella I'm writing now is not really a travelling story--it all happens in the Castle and forest surrounding it, but I recently finished a short story where there was a lot of travelling on horseback through very rugged terraine, and I had to constantly keep that in mind.

Silver the Wanderer wrote:7chronicles:At first, most of those scenes read something along the lines of, "They got up early in the morning, ate breakfast, walked, stopped for lunch, walked some more, set up camp, ate dinner, and went to bed." It was monotonous, and I found myself writing for the sake of filling up pages to make it sound like they were traveling longer.

I had that same problem when I was writing the short story I mentioned above. There was so much of the same walking and walking and walking, that I decided to add a battle scene and bring out the love story at that point. It helped to keep the story interesting and not just the same thing over and over.

Having a battle scene in the middle of traveling can definately ease up monotony, but it needs to have a purpose. It needs to reveal things about the characters or bring up a plot turn. Using Lord of the Rings as an example. The battle with the orcs in Balin's Tomb in Moria really had only one purpose other than entertain: reveal the power and effect of Frodo's mythril shirt. It only played a role later in the trilogy when Frodo was captured at the pass of Cirith Ungul. The only other thing that scene did was set up the coming of the Balorg. The battle at the end of Fellowship of the Ring was not just there to wrap up the first part of the story. It broke up the fellowship, sent Frodo off with Sam alone, redeemed and killed Boromir, put Merry and Pippin on the path to meet Treebeard, and got Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli to Rohan. So that was a plot effective battle.

This is hard advice for me to take because I love battle scenes. But my favorite ones are the ones that really have a purpose and are done right. Too many battle scenes can drop the suspense for the big one coming, but at the same time, too few may not warrant what the big one needs. Finding the right scale for how big battle scenes need to be is always tricky. The huge epic scale battles need to have the set up to make it worthwhile.

Large battles while traveling can be possible (example is the last battle of Fellowship of the Ring) but it needs to be set up properly. Most traveling battles are most like skirmishes, very brief and more like raids. In and out quickly. But it needs a purpose to show something about a character or put a plot twist to their journey.

Great ideas here. Now the challenge is to get those ideas to the paper (or keyboard).

Great ideas here. Now the challenge is to get those ideas to the paper (or keyboard).

Haha tell me about it! Summer's almost over and I've written like two pages but half that isn't even acceptable. I'm sitting here like banging my head on the keyboard because nothing good's coming out and then I go up stairs to see if I can manage something on paper. I then end up sitting up there banging my head against the desk becasue nothing will come out! Sigh..maybe it's because I'm banging my head too much

Oh question that I've been meaning to ask but forgot and then now I remember So how's your writing style? Do you write in chronological order so that you finish up for the night and the next morning start where you left off? Or do you write like in pieces? For example do you finish up for the night and in the morning instead of start where you left off you write a completely different scene and then piece everything together when you have enough? Does the rambling make sense?

*has one..or two... or maybe three questions*

My biggest problem is conversation-- especially in third person. I'll go on describing the scenery, the character's life, the character's thoughts, but the moment said character comes in a situation to talk to people, everything seems so abrupt. Maybe it's just me, but my, this is such an annoying habit.

And "ly" adverbs and adjectives are taboo and are to be avoided (and, in general, many adjectives?)?! :s Ever since reading these, I'm getting paranoid putting in any adjectives... How much is the maximum quota to make manuscript decent?

Sometimes I really ask myself if it's necessary to know the minute details of living in the 1800's or the history. It's sad that I note I take a lot of time doing the research, but when I sit with a blank page in front of me, all that research goes to waste. *le sigh* [/ramble]

I always thought that my dialogue was cheesy as well. Every time I did it, I always imagined the people just standing there talking and not getting anywhere. I was really suprised when Writer's Edge Service indicated that my dialogue was really good. So, like all authors, we are our worst and harshest critics. But here are some thoughts. During dialogue, what are the character's doing? Are they traveling down the road? Are they having a deep conversation? Is one really stressed out? Think about the setting. What are they seeing? How do they see the person they are talking to? What is their emotional state? In my book, a character gets visions of the spiritual side of things and when he sees his family in the spiritual state, he is totally confused to the point of frustration, anger, and throwing in the towel. That effects his tone, word choice, and body language. Do characters nod and give visual clues that they are listening? If so, show it.

Adjectives. You are indeed correct. More adjectives/adverbs, especially the 'ly's are for the most part frowned upon. The English language is complex and deep enough that there are single verbs that portray what a myriad of adjectives can do. Here is a great example from Scriptures. John 11:35. A typical writer would say "Having reached his emotional climax due to the grief of Mary and Martha over the death of thier brother, Jesus cried long and sorrowfully." Taking the context of the passage, you can take that very long line and cut down to two words, "Jesus wept". Everything else has already been said earlier in the chapter. So for adjectives, don't say 'ran as quickly as possible'. Say 'sprinted', or 'raced' or 'dashed'. Many times one good word can ecapsulate a multitude of basic ones. Maximum quota? There is no magic number, but if an editor/publisher sees it being common, expect a reject stamp. There are times where you do need adjectives, but pick better ones that describe more fully what you are trying to say.

Research and blank pages. I just went through that in my last edit. I spent two weeks trying to figure out ways to fix the things in my novel that need fixing. Then four days going through it in one phase. Now I am charging up for the final push. I have a friend who is a graduating senior with a creative writing major looking at it now and expects to get back with me this weekend. The key is to write. As you do your research, write the details that come to mind. If you keep it all in your head, you better have a VERY good memory system to keep track of it all. But writing it down paints an image in your head of what you want and lets you go back to it and think about how to plug it in. Have at it.

Great points, all!

I suppose I do have a question to ask of you. I've asked other friends (Nweb's very own, Alyosha, for example) their opinions, but it's still hard to figure this out exactly.

Some of you know that I am stuck on chapter three. It's not that I don't know what's to happen, I do. I have the whole book planned out in my mind. And some of the chapters will write themselves... if I can get past the third chapter. Therein lies the problem.

See, I'm writing the book as if one of my character's is writing it. (he's an aspiring author) He's writing about something in early August, that happened in June. Anyway, in the first two chapters, it's like we're just reading over his shoulder as he writes. (chapter one is background info, chapter two starts the action) My problem with chapter three, and making it flow with the other two, is that in it... he's not writing.

He's taking a break, and talking (rather, arguing) with his sister. Stuff like that. So, basically going from writing, to real time. How does one do that smoothly? I mean, the first two chapters, we're almost in his head. But in this one, we're outside of his head, watching him put his pencil down, stretch and get a snack.

Any ideas on how I could pull this off, and get it done so that I can move on with the rest of the book? I've been working on this since last November... and the fact that the one year mark is approaching and I have little to show for it, but two chapters and lots of character development is kind of depressing.

Edit, a little later:
After talking with Valia, I have a few ideas. But I'd still love to hear what you all have to say.

Occasionally, PA, I face a similar problem: getting my characters from one scene or encounter to the next...that is, writing a suitable transition.

I've decided that (at least in the earliest drafts) it's best if I just write the encounters (especially if my muse is offering inspiration) and just skip the transition (it can be added later). It gives a rather episodic feel to my drafts, sometimes (something like VDT - they sail from one adventure to another); if I don't like that I can address it during a later rewrite/edit.

So maybe you could just write what you have in mind for this chapter, and thus move on to all the other stuff you have in mind. The transition from his writing to real life (from chapter 2 to chapter 3) could be added in later.

Princess Anna wrote:

Some of you know that I am stuck on chapter three. It's not that I don't know what's to happen, I do. I have the whole book planned out in my mind. And some of the chapters will write themselves... if I can get past the third chapter. Therein lies the problem.

See, I'm writing the book as if one of my character's is writing it. (he's an aspiring author) He's writing about something in early August, that happened in June. Anyway, in the first two chapters, it's like we're just reading over his shoulder as he writes. (chapter one is background info, chapter two starts the action) My problem with chapter three, and making it flow with the other two, is that in it... he's not writing.

He's taking a break, and talking (rather, arguing) with his sister. Stuff like that. So, basically going from writing, to real time. How does one do that smoothly? I mean, the first two chapters, we're almost in his head. But in this one, we're outside of his head, watching him put his pencil down, stretch and get a snack.

Any ideas on how I could pull this off, and get it done so that I can move on with the rest of the book? I've been working on this since last November... and the fact that the one year mark is approaching and I have little to show for it, but two chapters and lots of character development is kind of depressing.

I'm having some similar problems in that I'm stuck on one chapter and can't get to the next...and then I found some major mistakes in my first chapter, so I have to go back and rewrite the whole thing...which is kind of discouraging, since I'm hitting my half-year mark and now have absoultely nothing to show for it! ( I feel kind of like sillygoose I don't really have much advice, but there are a lot of people who do have a lot to say and can really help save the day for your book.

I just got back from my writer's group, and I must say, I had a blast. Everyone had very positive things to say about the excerpt I brought for critique. The only problems found were very minor. I couldn't have asked for a better response, especially because I felt for sure my writing was horrible and needed tons of work. Hopefully I'll be able to get out of school for an afternoon once a month so I can come to further meetings...

We talked a lot about point of view, so if anyone is having trouble with that (unintentionally shifting back and forth between different characters' point of views, or shifting from third-person limited to third-person omniscient, etc.) I can pull out my notes.

So how's your writing style? Do you write in chronological order so that you finish up for the night and the next morning start where you left off? Or do you write like in pieces? For example do you finish up for the night and in the morning instead of start where you left off you write a completely different scene and then piece everything together when you have enough? Does the rambling make sense?

I'm very much a "chronological order" type of writer. Sometimes, my plot will change and evolve on the spot, and if I wasn't writing in order, I'd have to go back and change a lot of things. Other times, there'll be a scene that I see so clearly in my head, and I can't wait to write about it. These scenes keep me motivated to plod through the boring parts in order to get to the part I want to write.

But if, like Narnian_Archer, you're having trouble getting past the first chapter, skipping ahead might not be a bad idea. If a certain chapter or scene is giving you a hard time, skip ahead and come back later. It's better to write out of order than to not write at all. Maybe, while you're busy writing another part of the story, you'll figure out what to do to make the first scene move along.

Princess Anna, that's a very interesting concept. I can't help but wonder if there's some formatting trick you could do to separate real time from his writing. I once read a book where each chapter was from a different character's point of view. The titles of the chapters were named after the characters, so I knew right away who's point of view I was jumping into before reading. Maybe you could do something similar, like title the chapters "Past" and "Present"? I'm not sure how often you'll be coming back to real time, so it's just an idea.