It is quite fun to write on the seat of your pants, that is to make up the story as you go without following an outline. But it really does leave and require a lot of writing. The worst part of it is when you have to stop in the middle due to your workload and schedule, and when you get back to it, it takes a different route. That's what happened to my sequel, so that will require a LOT of rewriting.

As for editing, while I am working on mine, I am also trying to help a friend of mine get motivated to edit his work as well. First off, don't try to edit everything to perfection all at once. It's too much to take on and many things get missed. Focus on one or two particular things. Focus on your descriptions and your dialogues. Then go through again and look for consistencies and transitions. Look for point-of-view errors (that is, stay within a character's vision and head per section. If you change, be sure to put in a noticable break). If you need to re-write scenes or like in my case in one 'phase' re-arrange a whole third of the book, just focus on that. Doing it in these phases may take longer, but it will be a lot easier to focus and the job will be much more thorough.

I also strongly recommend attending writer's conferences. If you just want to do it for a hobby and don't mean to do anything with it, then maybe you can pass. But if you have any dreams of publication, a writer's conference is your best friend. You not only learn tips and tricks, you get a chance to talk with established authors and editors, and may even get a contact with an agent. When I went to an American Christian Writer's Conference back in March, not only were the speakers very interested in my work, one actually said I was at the calibur for a traditional publisher. She recommended Marcher Lord Press, who specialized in my genre, and it if becomes a hit, they have the means to working with a bigger name to get it out. So find a conference in your area and try to get there. It will be worth the money.

one actually said I was at the calibur for a traditional publisher.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this ("calibur" is not a word). Did she say that you might be a good fit for a traditional publisher?

I've never been to a conference, but I would like to jump in here and say that while it can be great for networking, you can get published without going to one. I've known many who have. On the other hand, there are some people who spend so much time and money going to conferences, workshops, and the like, when they would have been better served working on their craft by themselves or in smaller local groups. I recall reading about this in one of my writing books - can't remember which one at the moment.

Thanks for the editing advice, FencerforJesus. I'd love to attend a conference somewhere down the line, but I'm determined to get my manuscript nice and polished first - or at least presentable. Right now, it's painfully obviously which parts are edited and which parts aren't.

I'm also very concerned about my beginning, which has been rewritten twice now. First I had a prologue, but after reading about how prologues often don't work, I took it out and found a way to work the back-story in. Then I decided chapter one was too cliche, so I rewrote the first half of that. Now my fear is that the story starts too slowly. It turns out my hook is at the end of chapter one, so I'm thinking of starting the story there.

Welcome, Silver the Wanderer, to the Writing thread!

It's a bit ironic you mentioned finishing stories, Fencer. Just this weekend I finally finished up a several-year-old work in progress (I just needed to write a bridge between the last climactic scene and the very end, but writers' block was making that oddly difficult). I'm still not entirely satisfied with that part, but it seems to be my habit to keep editing and tweaking my writing anyway, so it's all good.

(My story for last year's NaNo was, as it happens, a sequel to this one, and had grabbed much of my attention recently).

The advice of a writers' conference - or networking with others - sounds great. The Inklings are a great example of what getting together with other writers can mean in terms of encouragement, advice, and so on.

Silver the Wanderer, first chapters are usually rewritten many times - and often the last to be touched up. I wouldn't worry TOO much about your opening until you think the rest of it is solid ... although once you're ready to submit, you'll want to make sure you have a strong beginning for obvious reasons.

lys, what I meant was that she kept asking me why I was even thinking about going to self-publishing or any of the ones that request you pay a portion to all of the publishing expenses. Those were the ones that had contacted me after I passed Writer's Edge Service's critique. She said my writing was good enough that a big publisher would consider me.

I also agree that writer's conferences are not required to get published, but they really do help. I'm not planning on attending numerous conferences, because I don't have the money, my writing has been shown to be good enough that I can handle most of it myself, and many more won't be very beneficial to me in the long run. The only real benefits I have left to attend conferences is to network, but if Marcher Lord Press takes my work, I'm in the system and the task becomes much easier from there. When it comes to the nitty gritty of editing and stuff, a writer's group is really the best way to go because you get that specific feedback you need.

I do agree with lys about the opening chapters. It is rarely perfected until the end, but when that time comes, you need to give your reader a good indication of what your book is about in the first page or two. Two reasons for this. One, publishers and editors often only ask for the first three chapters so they can get a grasp of your writing style. They also want to know where the story is heading. The other reason is for marketing. Think about the reader perusing through Barnes and Noble, seeing your book, and picking it up. If you can hook them in the first few pages, you have them. If not, they may set it down and continue looking. Now this isn't always the case, but it does help. This opening does not have to be an action scene, but it does need to engage the reader with the main character, the setting, and perhaps the gist of the story.

And that leads to another tricky thing about writing: narration vs engaging. I've been re-reading the book my friend wrote which is a fictional biography with a spiritual warfare theme (basically his life story set to a fictional setting and story) and he does two things that can be rough on a reader. One is that he goes into long descriptions about the setting, the military ranking system he has (which is pretty complex) and other things like that. The other thing is that he goes into his character's mind for long periods of time.

The challenge here is showing vs telling. Many details, like the role of a particular position, doesn't necessarily need three paragraphs (or pages in Tolkien style) to describe what a character in that position does. But those details can be spread out through dialogue and action. Narration is the author telling the reader what is going on, and if it goes too long, the reader is pulled out of the story. But through showing, you engage the reader by making the reader feel like they are in the scene watching everything take place.

A few examples. If your character is in a fierce gun battle in the markets of Iraq, don't tell them that bullets were flying. Make the reader hear the bullets ricochet off the buildings and cars. Make it echo in thier ears. Make them feel the hot air of a bullet flying past thier face. Make them feel the pain of taking a hit.
If your character is riding a horse through a peaceful forest. Don't just say she rode through the green forest. Make the reader distinguish the colors. Make them smell the plant life. Make them hear the wild life. Make them feel the breeze.
Obviously you don't need to always go into all these details but they are just guidelines on how to engage a reader and put them inside the story. If your reader is inside the story, you have them wanting to finish it and not put it down. I hope that helps.

I Love to write! But I don't get much time to do it.
I've had this story in my head for two years and I still haven’t managed to write a draft for it yet.
I've drawn lots of pictures for it, I've got it all pictured in my head, it's just hard sometimes to get what I picture on paper.
God Willing I want to really start getting it all together soon.

By the way does anyone know what is better: To self publish, or to get your book published through a publisher?

The difference between self-publishing and traditional publishing can be pretty big. First off, self-publishing always requires your money. Traditional publishing pays you (relying on the sales for income). Self-publishing often has limited marketing, that is you often do your own. Traditional publishers do that for you. Self-publishing will pretty much take your work as it is. Traditional publishers these days often require solicited manuscripts through an agent or established author, so the writing quality need to be pretty good. Self-publishing may be a good option for someone who only wants to print out a few copies for friends and family and doesn't necessarily want to reach a wide audience. Self-publishing rarely leads to wide success (Christopher Paloni is an exception to the rule). Traditional publishers will want to make big sales, so they will market widely. Self-publishers may require you to buy a large collection of your book that may end up stored in your garage. Traditional publishers usually offer you a set of books, but don't require you to buy them.

These are not all definate, but will give a decent overview of what is expected out these types of publishers. It's taken me quite some time to understand it all, and I can safely say I still don't really understand it. It really depends on you, the author, as to how far you want your book to go on what type of publisher to seek.

I submitted a story last month, for the first time in a couple of years. It was quite empowered. Of course, if it were to win the contest and be published, I would feel even more empowered.

That's super-exciting, Lys! I'm rooting for you over here! I've always wondered about contests for publishing, and if I should try to enter one, but I haven't ever looked far into it.

Right now I've been concentrating on screenwriting. It's something I really enjoy, and I think that my script is a lot stronger on this rewrite than it was initially.

ALSO! I'm going to start rewriting my NaNo '08 novel! I'm very excited. I wrote myself a summary and then revised it and revised again, reworking the plot. With that and my old story as a guide, I'm starting afresh! HURRAY!

*feels like she put alot of exclamation points in her post* !

I don't know if any other writers do this, but I have been having trouble trying to make my story longer...I cannot think of ways to do this. Do any of you have tips?

Welcome, Silver the Wanderer, to the Writing thread!

Thanks!

Silver the Wanderer, first chapters are usually rewritten many times - and often the last to be touched up. I wouldn't worry TOO much about your opening until you think the rest of it is solid ... although once you're ready to submit, you'll want to make sure you have a strong beginning for obvious reasons.

Okay! Thanks for the advice. It's good to know that I'm not the only one having issues with beginnings.

And thank you Fencer for more wonderful advice! I've been working on my "showing" skills a lot, especially since my story takes place in another world. The tricky part for me is trying to convey that otherworldly feel right away without creating an information dump. (And by the way, it's exciting to hear you're receiving positive feedback. Good luck getting published! )

7chronicles, I hope you're able to get your story going. The hardest part is getting started, but as we've all been discussing, don't worry too much about your beginning since it'll probably be rewritten anyway. As for finding time, I do I a lot of handwriting. I'm able to take pencil and paper to places I could never take a computer. The downside to this is that I have to type up everything I wrote later on. It's very time consuming, but the ideas always flow better when I'm handwriting.

LuvNarnia, maybe you'll find this blog post helpful? Like I mentioned before, I love reading blogs, and Gail Carson Levine has an excellent one. She takes questions posted by commentors and writes an article every Wednesday.

Speaking of blog posts, 7chronicles you might be interested in this one. If you want to know more about the publishing process, Nathan Bransford's blog is very helpful. I've learned so much from reading it. He also gives weekly critiques of opening pages.

yeah that helps a lot silver!!! Thanks! so if its short its ok if its good enough

@FencerforJesus: Thanks so much, that really helps me out! Thanks for taking the time to write it all out!

@Silver the Wanderer: Thanks for your suggestion on using a notebook and Pencil, I think that would work out for me! I’ll give it a try!
And Thank you also for that Blog Post that also is a big help!

The story I plan on writing is a fantasy, so I was curious:
If anyone had time on here to write down a list of things you don’t want to see in a fantasy, or if you can think of plots that are overused I would be very, very Thankful!
I don’t want my book to be a typical fantasy as much as possible.
I want to know if my story idea is original in anyway.

*drops in* I love coming to this thread for writing tips!

Being in the process of writing a large fantasy novel myself, I know how you feel, 7chronicles! In fact, I've been stumped for quite some time now trying to figure out a suitable end for my villain which isn't predictable from the very beginning.

Here are just a few things that I think are cliche:

-- This is one that I think is becoming a cliche: when a broken blade being restored as a symbol for the hero who is about to win a big battle (I've read about this in The Lord of the Rings, Eragon, The Warlords of Nin, and Redwall's sequel Mossflower)
-- The hero always being "the chosen one" because of an ancient prophecy
-- The hero being trained by a typical old, bearded wizard (And wizards always wear pointy hats)
-- The evil character is always dressed in a black cloak or something to the same effect

I think the problem comes when there get to be too many cliches, when the reader can predict the whole outcome of the story. I have actually predicted a few times that a various character didn't die because they're just too important to the story (like if it is the main character's mentor). (Edit: And my predictions were correct! ) Other times, the main character's mentor does die, making the character even more determined to fulfill their destiny, but not before giving them some very important secret.

I'll be looking forward to what more people have to say about this!

About cliches, I think the Wise Old Mentor is one that I wish would go away. Or, if we have to have mentors, can they not be old guys with beards who show up, train the hero, and die after making a speech about how awesome the hero is? Now I understand why I don't have any mentors in my stories.... And no evil dudes in black, please. No more Nazgul ripoffs. And no more orc ripoffs. Please.