If i play it again like 2 years later i forget a lot of the stuff anyway.

I beat The Crystal Bearers last night. The game is a lot shorter than I was expecting. It only took me 12-13 hours. Obviously I didn't get everything, but it was quick. It does have a pretty good story line, not to the depths that the regular Final Fantasy series does due to it's length, but pretty good nonetheless. Musical score is not stand-out epic, but good.

Game play is fun with a new style of combat. Instead of wielding weapons, the main character has control of gravity. So he picks up objects and enemy and hurls them. Targeting uses the Wiimote, much like archery in Zelda.

One of the biggest things to the game is the graphics. As I've mentioned before, you couldn't tell by the graphics alone which system the game belonged to. The anime action sequences are sweet as well. The Wii has two games, one is Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World, and the other is Crystal Bearers, that have the best animated sword duels I have seen. Overall, I'd give it an 8/10.

Fencer have you ever played the online zelda games?

I wasn't aware of online Zelda games. I know of the multiplayer ones on the DS and Four Swords for GC. Are those the ones you're talking about? Or are they specifically on the Wii internet? At my college dorm, I can't get internet access for the Wii because I have to 'log-in' every three hours and the Wii doesn't offer me a chance to log in. I have to wait for the summer when I move out to get Wii net.

Besides at this point, I will be playing few video games for a while as I have discovered the real amount of homework I have to do this semester and video game time will simply not be much of an option. I fell behind early last semester, unaccustomed to the work load and it cost me. I have to focus to keep on top of it this semester.

Lol i ment internet zelda games liek this one.

http://www.gracecentered.com/play_zelda_online.htm

No, I have not. I usually don't on-line for gaming. I've never really been a PC gamer and internet games are something I haven't gotten into. The only ones I have done is Bejewelled on Facebook and some simple games like word searches, sudoku, cross-words, and puzzles on newspaper sites. And with my current school homework load about to get tougher, I will barely have time for those as well. That is until the semester is over then it's game on.

Since i am only in highschool, i have a bit of time to play games,Last year i got no homework that i couldn't finish at lunch time. I don't usually do it ta lunch time though. Anyway the zelda games(internet ones) are good for fan made games but compared to the real ones, they aint that great.

After looking at your link, I noticed it was hosted by what appeared to be a Christian site. I remember way back in the days of the NES, there were five games put out by a company known as Wisdom Tree (Shadowlander might remember these). They were cheap attempts at putting Biblical themes to video games. One in particular was called Spiritual Warfare and I didn't recognize it at the time, but the game and graphics played VERY similar to the original Legend of Zelda. These games also had different cartriges then the original system and I found out later that any game that didn't have a Nintendo Catrige was stolen technology and wasn't approved by Nintendo. This flaw was fixed in the SNES run.

While I am not opposed to Christian themed video games, I am very dissapointed in the efforts to do so. Since my current fields of interest in computer science is graphics and artificial intelligence (which can apply to video games as well as robots and such), it might be a chance for me to spearhead a Christian themed game that is not only legal, but also playable to the average gamer. Not saying that is what I am suppossed to do but it is an option.

I am really looking forward to the new Mario galaxy because you get to play as yoshi in it or something.

I remember way back in the days of the NES, there were five games put out by a company known as Wisdom Tree (Shadowlander might remember these). They were cheap attempts at putting Biblical themes to video games. One in particular was called Spiritual Warfare and I didn't recognize it at the time, but the game and graphics played VERY similar to the original Legend of Zelda.

I remember the company, Wisdom Tree. You could buy those games in your local Bible Book Store, or similar location. I even vaguely recall the game you're describing here, although I didn't play it (I saw pictures of it somewhere, as well as a description which basically says what you're saying, that it was a somewhat clone of Zelda). Wisdom Tree's products are viewed more or less as "oddities" in the world of NES games and from my understanding people will go out of their way to find copies because they're so unusual, not necessarily because they're entertaining.

While I am not opposed to Christian themed video games, I am very dissapointed in the efforts to do so.

Ha! Finally a non-Zelda topic I can sink my teeth into!

A Christian-themed video game is going to be very hard to pull off for several reasons. Right off the bat if there's so much as an ounce of violence you'll have critics crawling out of the woodwork pointing accusing fingers at us and saying, "see? they're really a bunch of bloodthirsty hate-mongers who secretly want to kill. Inside each Christian is really a savage Crusader who wants to murder all non-believers". They pulled this routine when some company released a Left Behind video game several years back in which, from my understanding, players would have a limited combat ability against enemies (read: forces of the Anti-Christ). The game, like so very many Christian games tend to be, was purportedly of terrible quality, and even despite the free publicity the game generated it got low sales. The only way I could see to include anything like warfare into a Christian video game would be to take a more historical perspective on it...one could recreate the battles of the OT, possibly using something like the Age of Empires III engine, or even Rome: Total Warfare. And even then that's not really "Christian" per se, just Biblical.

So if you can't really put lethal action into a Christian video game what are we basically left with? There are Christian trivia video games, but they're rather niche already because trivia games don't appeal to everyone. One could do a platformer (like Super Mario) but how do you fit in a good theme? And even more perplexing is how do you use this to pass on a Christian message? I could see a Christian adventure game, in the vein of the old LucasArts games like Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis or The Dig, but it would require superb plotting and writing. The best way to pull this off might be to approach it in the style of a Final Fantasy game, sort of a semi-RPG kind of thing. One could assign stats to their characters the same as other RPG's (fortitude, stamina, strength, etc.) but could also have additional values such as faith or courage. I can easily see a really good FF-styled RPG with Christian themes done in the style of FF7 or FF8. If there was violence then it'd already be of the cartoony type and thus would probably draw less criticism.

But then again there lies at the base the fact that your mainstream gamer is probably not going to play the game (and might derisively snort at the suggestion of it) because at the end of the day there will be a perception that a Christian-themed game is going to end up "shackling" them to a certain behavior pattern in their gameplay. They won't be able to do nefarious deeds (which boils down to realistic life choices), and they'll essentially be stuck with picking A. good deed, B. good deed, or C. good deed. I'm not saying to make it gritty, necessarily, but you have to show how bad actions lead to bad consequences, and a Christian themed game is likely not going to allow you to do that because then parents wouldn't want their kids playing it, and seculars are probably going to sneer at it anyway. So you're left with sub-par games that don't really challenge the player and feel like good-intentioned but lousy examples of how to put together a video game because no one wants to step on anyone's toes.

It's a market I think that needs to be gotten into but how to do it is going to be the real challenge.

I pretty much agree with everything you have said Shadowlander. There were five other games that Wisdom Tree released, five in total for NES and one for the SNES. The five for the NES were Bible Adventures (stories of Noah and the Ark, Rescuing Baby Moses, and David and Goliath), King of Kings (adventures of Mary and Joseph with Baby Jesus and the three Wise Men), Exodus (a puzzle game), Spiritual Warfare (which I mentioned above), and Joshua (an slightly improved version of Exodus). Each of these games had Bible trivia at the end of each stage that gave you bonus points/lives for correct answers. The SNES games was truly a horrendous piece of trash. It was an attempted remake at Noah's Ark with Doom graphics/gameplay. The SNES had a chip that prevented other companies from copying the technology so Widsom Tree made an adaptation that let it work and it was bad.

I really don't think making an action Biblical game is really the way to go, unless you were to do a heavy spiritual warfare theme. But then you run the risk that you mentioned of being blood-thirsty crusaders. I do like the idea doing a FF style game, where it is RGP-ish and that would require a very good story writer.

I'd say more, but I have to go to class. But I will add an adapted CS quote, "We don't need more people making Christian video games. We need more Christians making good video games."

It was an attempted remake at Noah's Ark with Doom graphics/gameplay.

I'm trying to just picture what that must have been like...how did they come up with that combination??? I'm assuming that the player didn't have access to a chainsaw or the BFG-9000 also? Hahaha

I really think a FF-styled game would be the way to go too. Now the trick here is to get some truly gifted programmers, and the game would have to have a great plot. There would be combat, of course, but it'd be FF type of combat, meaning kinda cartoony (I mean seriously...it'd take Ahnuld in his heyday to lift up and use Cloud's "Buster" sword realistically), but think of all the adventure stories one could do in this fashion. If one did it though there could be no halfway, nothing held back. I just don't think a Christian video-game publishing house is going to be brave enough to take the plunge.

I really don't think making an action Biblical game is really the way to go, unless you were to do a heavy spiritual warfare theme.

It just occurred to me that you could if it was done in the style of Thief. Thief's premise is that you're...well...a thief, and you spend most of your time sneaking around and avoiding combat unless there's no other way around it. You have weapons but the goal of the game is to avoid using them. One could easily modify this a bit into a sort of cat and mouse game. The player could spend most of their time trying to evade capture/detection rather than partake in fisticuffs. I can readily affirm that it'd be a very adrenaline pumping experience to be in a hostile situation and really having to use your wits to keep from getting wacked. How to work a plot around something like that would be a bit on the challenging side though.

I can also very easily see an AOE III game based on OT battles. In fact an RTS game would be very fallow grounds for that kind of thing. Build a sort of fortress, build workers to collect raw materials, and then military buildings that produce a variety of unit types. There is a lot to draw from...your basic swordsman, siege engines, archers...heck, I think you could even toss in slingers too (David was a good shot with one). I can envision an entire campaign centered around the Ark of the Covenant alone.

I think Theif was the one X-box game that got my interest. But I didn't want to get a new system just for one game. I could see some Theif elements in an action Biblical game. The Bible does have a number of espionage espiodes (Ehud in Judges 3, the spies in Jericho, or even David running from Saul to name a few).

One of the issues of storyline is that many of the Biblical stories are too short to fit into a game-length plot line. The only characters that really get a lot of attention are Abraham, Joseph, Moses, Joshua, and David. Everyone else gets a few chapters here and there, and the even many of these are times of peace or a scarce battle. One idea was presented in Chuck Black's Kingdom Series allegory in which he combined a number of stories into one story with the same characters. In his books, one character sometimes represents several characters from the Bible. So you could do a story line that bridges several Biblical stories.

I do like the idea of seeing consequences for certain actions. The only game I have played in which your choices can actually make somewhat of a difference is Chrono Cross (PS1). You couldn't really deviate from the main plot, but the choices you make determine which characters you get and which direction the plot goes. When it does diverge, it later converges, but it could be interesting to give a video game a 'Choose-your-adventure' feel to it.

One problem I have though with this line of thinking is the often noticed cheezy approach. For example: in the game Spiritual Warfare for the NES, you did eventually get the Armor of God, but your primary weapon was the "Fruit of the Spirit". And you actually shot fruit (pear was to represent meekness, apple, patiences, pomegranite, peace, grapes, joy, and bananas were faith). You could use 'vials of God's Wrath' and Samson's Jawbone. And the goal was to use the fruit to hit 'lost people' and 'convert' them. And from time to time, and angel would come to ask trivia questions. To 'heal' yourself you had to pray. The list goes on. These were clever for its time, but no one, even Christians, would not buy it now. If you walk around Jericho, every one knows what's suppossed to happen (should). But there should be a way to breach this topic and not be obviously cheesy. Should we veil it? I don't think so but it does need to be original, Biblically sound, simply done right. I think it can be done, but it will need a lot of work.

The cheesiness is all too often the main attribute of Christian games. And cheesiness is not at all a hallmark of Christianity itself...this is deadly serious stuff (spiritually) we deal with, and there just doesn't seem to be an easy way to make it palatable in video game format. Are trivia games the best we can do now?

Another issue here is something you've already hinted at. Namely we're going to draw from the Bible for inspiration for the plot in some form or capacity. And the Bible does have great plots to draw from, as you rightly say. But beyond the OT and Revelation where could one get a decent action plot with some legs? What I mean is that, like you pointed out, some of the best stuff in there comes in small amounts. The alternative is to do what Tolkien and Lewis did and just draw the main ideas from the Bible but place the action in an alternate setting. They both chose fantasy, but one could easily choose a different theme; Sci-Fi, Medieval era, Futuristic settings...heck, even an alternate reality (timeline) might be palatable. One could do as Lewis did and retell certain stories with a whole new cast of characters whose actions mirror or resemble those of the originals. Here an FF-styled RPG or traditional point-and-click adventure game would really shine.

Cheeziness is definately not exclusive to Christian games, but it is a very common thread that has been found. But as I mentioned earlier, you don't need people making Christian games. You need Christians making good games. One of the things that make FF stories interesting is that because they don't have a Biblical standpoint, the characters have a hard time dealing with purpose of life. They get so close sometimes, but they miss some really good potential if it had a Christian writer.

I often think that the best way to approach Christian themed video games with action would be along the lines of spiriutal warfare. As I've mentioned in the CRP thead, spiritual warfare is really against three foes, the lust of the flesh, the desires of the world, and the wiles of the devil. Of course, how to personify these things in a game format without making it cheezy is challenging. I pretty well pulled it off in the novel I wrote, but a novel and a game are two very different mediums, and as we all know, you can do certain things better with certain mediums. Can this be done in a game? I think it could. And I know from experience (as you know, shadowlander from reading about what I've been through) that spiritual warfare has its regular foes and its 'bosses'. So set-up is there. For action games like Zelda, you can use things like the Armor of God for special abilities. I've complied a list of weapons that Christians have, including prayer, praise, the Word of our Testimony, the Blood of the Lamb, not fearing death, etc. For some of these, I can actually think of non-cheezy ways to demonstrate them. For example: the Blood of the Lamb (as said in Rev. 12:11) could reduce damage by half or something like that. Shouting would be like in Joshua, and it would act like the book version of Helm Hammerhand (the horn at Helm's Deep) that stunned the enemy. You could use the 'Fruit of the Spirit' in terms of tests or keys to puzzles, not literal fruit that you throw at 'lost souls'. These are just a couple ideas. And a final boss could be a demonic entity that will require use of the full array of items you have to defeat. These are just a few of my ideas.

But in terms of having a decent story line, really the best way to go about it at this point is to create a fictional theme and plug in Christian ideas/themes into it. What these games need is a Christian writer through. The themes don't even have to be explicit, but a Christian theme will come out from an artist with a Christian world-view.