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What Makes Aravis and Emeth stand out from other Calormenes?

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coracle
(@coracle)
NarniaWeb's Auntie Moderator

@the-old-maid nice thought, except that i believe he was from Archenland, not from Calormen.

There, shining in the sunrise, larger than they had seen him before, shaking his mane (for it had apparently grown again) stood Aslan himself.
"...when a willing victim who had committed no treachery was killed in a traitor's stead, the Table would crack and Death itself would start working backwards."

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Posted : February 10, 2023 11:25 am
Narnian78
(@narnian78)
NarniaWeb Guru

Emeth had much more humility than Aravis. Aravis was very haughty and snobbish until later in the story when Aslan changed her. I tend to like characters who are humble, but Lewis made some of his characters with faults to make them more believable. You get to like them better after they change. I think the story would have been boring if everyone had been nice and perfect all the time.  Shasta was an ordinary character that was brave and humble.  Emeth was honest and truthful when he could have been the opposite living under the Tisroc.

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Posted : February 10, 2023 12:15 pm
Jasmine
(@jasmine_tarkheena)
NarniaWeb Guru

@narnian78 

I won't deny that Emeth had humility where as Rishda had arrogance. Though I won't also deny that he wasn't without flaws. I don't think you can do a character without flaws, even major ones.

"And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me beloved."
(Emeth, The Last Battle)
https://escapetoreality.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/aslan-and-emeth2.jpg

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Topic starter Posted : February 10, 2023 8:06 pm
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Silverlily
(@silverlily)
NarniaWeb Junkie

While I do understand @narnia78's point about Aravis being arrogant, I actually sort of find it endearing rather than annoying? Like... We get to see how she was raised to be, she's this young noblewoman who's all stiff and trying to be perfect and still caught up in the idea of how she's supposed to have an ideal life, even though she's making a break from her past, and then... we get to watch her realize what parts of her ideal are wrong, and come out of her shell and become somebody better. She wouldn't be half so appealing to me if she just magically knew how to be good and right from when she was a kid. She's... she's a little bit of an icon to me of the idea that you can be raised in a culture or subculture or family that pushes you to be wrong and value the wrong things, and still learn.

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Posted : February 13, 2023 2:24 pm
Col Klink
(@col-klink)
NarniaWeb Junkie
Posted by: @coracle

@the-old-maid nice thought, except that i believe he was from Archenland, not from Calormen.

I believe that character's nationality is actually ambiguous. He was working with Lord Bar who was from Archenland but worked for the Tisroc. Despite never actually appearing in the story, he's one of the most complex characters in the Narnia books. He helped kidnap Shasta, presumably to kill, but also starved himself to keep him alive.

For better or worse-for who knows what may unfold from a chrysalis?-hope was left behind.
-The God Beneath the Sea by Leon Garfield & Edward Blishen check out my new blog!

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Posted : February 13, 2023 4:01 pm
coracle
(@coracle)
NarniaWeb's Auntie Moderator

@col-klink as Shasta/Prince Cor retells it to his friends in Chapter 14 of HHB,
"... "Bar had given me to one of his knights, and sent us both away in the ship's boat. ..." 
Aslan, he goes on, pushed it ashore to where Arsheesh could find it.
"I wish I knew that knight's name, for he must have kept me alive and starved himself to do it."

I doubt that Lord Bar had Calormene knights in his entourage.

 

There, shining in the sunrise, larger than they had seen him before, shaking his mane (for it had apparently grown again) stood Aslan himself.
"...when a willing victim who had committed no treachery was killed in a traitor's stead, the Table would crack and Death itself would start working backwards."

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Posted : February 13, 2023 6:21 pm
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Col Klink
(@col-klink)
NarniaWeb Junkie

@coracle Lord Bar was secretly working for the Tisroc. It's possible, though not certain, that some of his followers waiting in the harbor were the Calormene knights. 

For better or worse-for who knows what may unfold from a chrysalis?-hope was left behind.
-The God Beneath the Sea by Leon Garfield & Edward Blishen check out my new blog!

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Posted : February 13, 2023 7:42 pm
coracle
(@coracle)
NarniaWeb's Auntie Moderator

@col-klink Were there knights in Calormen? Bar was a spy, which is usually a secretive role. I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. Thumbs up  

There, shining in the sunrise, larger than they had seen him before, shaking his mane (for it had apparently grown again) stood Aslan himself.
"...when a willing victim who had committed no treachery was killed in a traitor's stead, the Table would crack and Death itself would start working backwards."

ReplyQuote
Posted : February 13, 2023 7:47 pm
hermit
(@hermit)
NarniaWeb Regular
Posted by: @icarus

I think this question illustrates one of the biggest problems I have with these two characters - sure they can both be used as examples of how skin colour is not necessarily a barrier to acceptance in Narnia... However at the same time they are also characters who only attain that acceptance precisely because they reject their people's entire culture and way of life.

I wouldn't really agree they only attain acceptance because they reject their people's way of life. Remember Aravis is just one individual who has left her entire family behind, She will naturally want to fit in with her adopted society as much as possible. If a larger group of Calormenes had fled the Tisroc's rule to settle in Narnia or Archenland they would have more motivation to keep aspects of their original culture. But Lewis was writing a children's fantasy, not a dissertation on the sociology of immigration

As for Emeth he was accepted not into Narnia per se but Aslan's Country which incorporated not only the Narnia world but all the others as well, including ours. It's also hinted at the end that what begins to happen to them is beyond human description. It's rather problematic to define what 'culture' would even mean in that context.

 

 

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Posted : February 15, 2023 12:08 pm
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Jasmine
(@jasmine_tarkheena)
NarniaWeb Guru
Posted by: @hermit

I wouldn't really agree they only attain acceptance because they reject their people's way of life. Remember Aravis is just one individual who has left her entire family behind, She will naturally want to fit in with her adopted society as much as possible. If a larger group of Calormenes had fled the Tisroc's rule to settle in Narnia or Archenland they would have more motivation to keep aspects of their original culture. But Lewis was writing a children's fantasy, not a dissertation on the sociology of immigration

I guess we never realize how complicated Calormene culture could be. I mean, being married off (especially at such a young age) is such a big one. Another is how the upper class look down upon the lower class.

Kids probably don't think stuff about immigration anyways. They might think that Aravis is your typical girl who goes through a lot of development.

Posted by: @hermit

As for Emeth he was accepted not into Narnia per se but Aslan's Country which incorporated not only the Narnia world but all the others as well, including ours. It's also hinted at the end that what begins to happen to them is beyond human description. It's rather problematic to define what 'culture' would even mean in that context.

Emeth could have learned about Narnian culture during his time there. I can almost imagine his anger and shock when he learned that Rishda, his own captain, didn't believe in Tash. And there were probably other soldiers that didn't either or there could have been some who were devoted.

Calormen probably looked different in the new Narnia, but I think that could be another discussion.

 

 

 

"And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me beloved."
(Emeth, The Last Battle)
https://escapetoreality.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/aslan-and-emeth2.jpg

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Topic starter Posted : March 10, 2023 8:13 pm
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