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Narnia Timeline

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Jasmine
(@jasmine_tarkheena)
NarniaWeb Guru

There's been numbers of discussion in regards to the Narnia Timeline. While it kind of gives us an idea of what happened, there's been so much dispute about it. It may not as well be canon. Obviously, CS Lewis did not plan out the series in advanced.

1. The Narnia Timeline seems to indicate that Col, the first King of Archenland, was the youngest song of Frank V. However, The Magician's Nephew book mentions that the youngest son of Frank and Helen established Archenland.

2. Jewel mentions in The Last Battle that Queen Swanwhite lived in the days before the White Witch and the Great Winter. It may indicate that she was the last monarch before the White Witch took over. Though the Timeline seems to indicate that Swanwhite was placed after the Golden age (somewhere between the Pevensies and Caspian I). It may be possible that there was more than one Queen Swanwhite. You might have to draw to your own conclusions.

3. The Timeline indicates that Eustace and Jill are 16 years old in The Last Battle. However, Eustace and Jill mention that it was over a year by there time, and they were still in school. If that were the case, then they would have most likely be 10 or 11 years old.

Is there anything else that you would like to point out about the Narnia Timeline?

"And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me beloved."
(Emeth, The Last Battle)
https://escapetoreality.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/aslan-and-emeth2.jpg

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Topic starter Posted : June 15, 2023 4:05 pm
coracle
(@coracle)
NarniaWeb's Auntie Moderator

We love the Timeline, quirky though it is, because it gives us a basis for knowing people's ages etc.

However, we have no proof that it was actually compiled by Lewis. As with a number of things, it was first published by a young American teacher who worked for him for a few weeks over one summer before he died, and then became a self-appointed editor.

There, shining in the sunrise, larger than they had seen him before, shaking his mane (for it had apparently grown again) stood Aslan himself.
"...when a willing victim who had committed no treachery was killed in a traitor's stead, the Table would crack and Death itself would start working backwards."

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Posted : June 15, 2023 4:57 pm
Jasmine
(@jasmine_tarkheena)
NarniaWeb Guru

I think it was Walter Hooper who published it. We love it too, even though it seems to be a bit off. We even like it for the idea of how old each of the children were when they go on their adventures in Narnia.

Regardless of whatever is canon or not, Narnia still has a separate time of its own. Anyone could stay there for hours, days, weeks, months, even years in Narnia, but no time would by in our world.

"And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me beloved."
(Emeth, The Last Battle)
https://escapetoreality.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/aslan-and-emeth2.jpg

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Topic starter Posted : June 15, 2023 5:43 pm
coracle
(@coracle)
NarniaWeb's Auntie Moderator

@jasmine_tarkheena 

Yes, his name was Walter Hooper. 

There, shining in the sunrise, larger than they had seen him before, shaking his mane (for it had apparently grown again) stood Aslan himself.
"...when a willing victim who had committed no treachery was killed in a traitor's stead, the Table would crack and Death itself would start working backwards."

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Posted : June 15, 2023 11:06 pm
Courtenay
(@courtenay)
NarniaWeb Fanatic Hospitality Committee

The timeline was first published in Walter Hooper's book Past Watchful Dragons, which I have here on hand. Hooper doesn't tell us much about the timeline's origin and composition, but he DOES repeatedly state that Lewis himself compiled it, some time after he'd written all seven books (we're not told exactly when or how). Quotes from Hooper's book:

Lewis had not drawn out a scheme for the whole Narnian series before writing The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, although he wrote 'An Outline of Narnian history so far as it is known' after all the books had been written. Because there was no definite scheme from the beginning, there are a few inconsistencies in the stories. (p. 42)

In the preceding chapter it was mentioned that after Lewis had written all seven Chronicles of Narnia he drew up an 'Outline' of the history of that world. He gave the Outline to me, and I shall reproduce it here... (p. 48)

The reader should remember that, while Lewis had entertained various notions of time before writing any of the Chronicles, he had not worked out anything like a 'scheme' of Narnia/Earth equivalents beforehand. Having written the books, he then found out what they were by compiling the table given below: (p. 49)

The timeline then follows. That is all Hooper tells us about it, but his few statements are clear enough: Lewis compiled it, some time after he'd finished writing the books, and gave it to Hooper. If in fact Hooper compiled the timeline himself, then he was flagrantly lying in the little he does say about it. I wouldn't want to accuse him of that without very solid evidence, especially as (so far as I know) he was a deeply committed Christian like Lewis himself.

I also wouldn't go making blanket statements on behalf of all Narnia fans that "we love" the timeline... we don't all. I for one certainly wouldn't say I "love" it. It has its uses, but it is problematic in many regards and I take it as a rough guide at most, not as absolute "canon", especially where it contradicts what's in the books themselves. But then there are so many places where the books themselves contradict each other!! It simply means there are aspects of the whole Narnian saga that will never be completely explicable or resolvable, at least not in ways that all or even most fans can agree on. But none of that matters nearly as much as what the books mean to those who love them. Which (and I think we can all agree on this) is a lot! Wink  

Edited to add: I just remembered that in this version of the Narnia timeline on "The Chronicles of Narnia Wiki Fandom" website, if you scroll down below the timeline itself, there's a list there of controversies about the timeline, including some that have already been mentioned here. (Interestingly, it doesn't include the inconsistency with the books over whether King Frank's second son or a later descendant founded Archenland.)

"Now you are a lioness," said Aslan. "And now all Narnia will be renewed."
(Prince Caspian)

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Posted : June 16, 2023 1:46 am
coracle liked
Jasmine
(@jasmine_tarkheena)
NarniaWeb Guru

@courtenay 

I actually have read the Narnia Timeline from The Chronicles of Narnia Timeline. I agree that it has its advantages and disadvantages.

I think in some cases you kind of have to draw your own conclusions. For instance, Jewel mentions in The Last Battle that Queen Swanwhite lived in the days before the White Witch and the Great Winter. The Timeline seemed to have place her after the Pevensies, between them and Caspian I. There could have been two Queen Swanwhites. I think you have to draw to your own conclusions if that were the case.

"And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me beloved."
(Emeth, The Last Battle)
https://escapetoreality.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/aslan-and-emeth2.jpg

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Topic starter Posted : June 16, 2023 8:19 am
Courtenay
(@courtenay)
NarniaWeb Fanatic Hospitality Committee
Posted by: @jasmine_tarkheena

I think in some cases you kind of have to draw your own conclusions. For instance, Jewel mentions in The Last Battle that Queen Swanwhite lived in the days before the White Witch and the Great Winter. The Timeline seemed to have place her after the Pevensies, between them and Caspian I. There could have been two Queen Swanwhites. I think you have to draw to your own conclusions if that were the case.

To me, there's only one logical and reasonable conclusion to draw: Lewis forgot that he'd said in LB that Queen Swanwhite lived before the Pevensies, and he mistakenly placed her after their time when he wrote up the timeline. It always amazes me how some fans will do all kinds of mental acrobatics to think up "in-universe" explanations for the various inconsistencies, when there's one simple one that covers the lot of 'em: the bloke writing these books made some mistakes along the way. Silly   That isn't so hard to accept and live with, surely — I mean, he wasn't God (as he would have been the first to admit!)... Wink  

 

"Now you are a lioness," said Aslan. "And now all Narnia will be renewed."
(Prince Caspian)

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Posted : June 16, 2023 8:29 am
Jasmine
(@jasmine_tarkheena)
NarniaWeb Guru
Posted by: @courtenay

To me, there's only one logical and reasonable conclusion to draw: Lewis forgot that he'd said in LB that Queen Swanwhite lived before the Pevensies, and he mistakenly placed her after their time when he wrote up the timeline. It always amazes me how some fans will do all kinds of mental acrobatics to think up "in-universe" explanations for the various inconsistencies, when there's one simple one that covers the lot of 'em: the bloke writing these books made some mistakes along the way. Silly   That isn't so hard to accept and live with, surely — I mean, he wasn't God (as he would have been the first to admit!)... Wink  

That is a possibility. Another possibility is that Swanwhite was like the Pevensies, coming from another world (our world even) and was Queen before the Great Winter. She may have gone back to her own world after the Tree of Protection died and Jadis started to conquer Narnia. Then sometime after the Golden Age, she may have come back to Narnia, and reign as Queen a second time.

And yes, CS Lewis wasn't God. Perhaps when those of us that are Christian on the forum get to Heaven, we can ask CS Lewis himself, in regards to the Timeline. I will say that the Timeline doesn't stop me from enjoying the series as they are.

 

"And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me beloved."
(Emeth, The Last Battle)
https://escapetoreality.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/aslan-and-emeth2.jpg

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Topic starter Posted : June 16, 2023 8:42 am
Courtenay
(@courtenay)
NarniaWeb Fanatic Hospitality Committee

@jasmine_tarkheena Can you, in all seriousness, not actually see the difference between invented "in-universe" explanations — "oh, there were two Swanwhites, or maybe she came from another world and lived in Narnia twice, etc." — and the factual real-life reason: the author made a mistake?? No idea  

And to clarify further, when I said Lewis wasn't God, I wasn't implying that anyone should think he is. I simply meant that he himself was well aware there were inconsistencies in the books and he most likely would have been quick to admit it if anyone had pointed that out. I still wonder how he might have "retconned" Narnia if he'd had a chance to revise the books — which he stated he'd like to do, not long before his death, precisely because he knew there were things in them that didn't add up. But we'll never know that.

"Now you are a lioness," said Aslan. "And now all Narnia will be renewed."
(Prince Caspian)

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Posted : June 16, 2023 8:55 am
Jasmine
(@jasmine_tarkheena)
NarniaWeb Guru

@courtenay 

Ah, point taken. We can't really know for sure what CS Lewis's intentions were with Timeline. He could as well have made a error.

Even the Timeline of our world has pros and cons. As a history lover, I can kind of relate to this. While the Timeline of our world has it's advantages and disadvantages, it doesn't stop me from being a history lover.

While the Narnia Timeline has its pros and cons, it shouldn't stop us from enjoying the series for what they are.

 

"And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me beloved."
(Emeth, The Last Battle)
https://escapetoreality.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/aslan-and-emeth2.jpg

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Topic starter Posted : June 16, 2023 9:05 am
coracle
(@coracle)
NarniaWeb's Auntie Moderator

I've had a copy of Timeline for 25 years, in a book by Brian Sibley. (I've also got Past Watchful Dragons, the book Hooper first published it in).

I used to refer to it in discussions on the old Into The Wardrobe site forum. It helped us in the early days of the Internet. 

I generally see it as a good background guide that has several problems that can't be resolved, since Lewis died before he could do his planned review of the books.

 

 

There, shining in the sunrise, larger than they had seen him before, shaking his mane (for it had apparently grown again) stood Aslan himself.
"...when a willing victim who had committed no treachery was killed in a traitor's stead, the Table would crack and Death itself would start working backwards."

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Posted : June 16, 2023 3:35 pm
Courtenay liked
Jasmine
(@jasmine_tarkheena)
NarniaWeb Guru

It would also be helpful for ideas of casting child actors to portray the children in the upcoming adaptations (if any studio company ever gets to it).

Anyhow, the Timeline is in someway some helpful hints, despite all the flaws it has. It shows that nobody is perfect.

 

"And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me beloved."
(Emeth, The Last Battle)
https://escapetoreality.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/aslan-and-emeth2.jpg

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Topic starter Posted : June 16, 2023 5:05 pm
Narnian78
(@narnian78)
NarniaWeb Guru

The Narnian timeline must have been created many years ago by Walter Hooper because I actually remember it from the C. S. Lewis course I took in college with Dr. Schakel in the 1970’s.  I found it very helpful in understanding when important events in Narnia took place. I suppose Lewis himself could have invented it, but apparently he left that to others long after he created his stories. I suppose that students would have to learn something like it in the schools of Narnia, but they might not have much knowledge of events occurring here on Earth. It’s a good thing that we have the timeline thanks to Mr. Hooper. 🙂

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Posted : June 17, 2023 9:20 am
coracle
(@coracle)
NarniaWeb's Auntie Moderator

@narnian78 

In the front of my copy of Past Watchful Dragons, it says 'Copyright 1971 by Walter Hooper and the Trustees of the Estate of C.S.Lewis". 

There, shining in the sunrise, larger than they had seen him before, shaking his mane (for it had apparently grown again) stood Aslan himself.
"...when a willing victim who had committed no treachery was killed in a traitor's stead, the Table would crack and Death itself would start working backwards."

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Posted : June 17, 2023 2:23 pm
Narnian78 liked
Narnian78
(@narnian78)
NarniaWeb Guru

@coracle 

That was just three years before I attended Hope College, and six years before I enrolled in the C. S. Lewis course. The timeline has been in existence for decades. 🙂

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Posted : June 17, 2023 2:49 pm
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