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Chapter 15: Disobedience

wisewoman
(@wisewoman)
Member Moderator Emeritus

1. Orual assumes that Psyche's "worst case scenario" is dying undeceived. Do you agree with this? Why or why not?

2. Why do you think it was such an awful, unforgivable sin for Psyche to look at the god? Was it because to do so would be to disobey him? Because for a mortal to see a god was not permitted? What are other reasons?

3. Does Psyche deserve her fate? Is she culpable for her actions?

4. "A monster—the Shadowbrute that I and all Glome had imagined—would have subdued me less than the beauty this face wore." What does Orual mean by this?

"It is God who gives happiness; for he is the true wealth of men's souls." — Augustine

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Topic starter Posted : July 29, 2010 11:13 am
Kate
 Kate
(@kate)
NarniaWeb Junkie

2. It reminded me a lot of Eden. Adam and Eve were given everything. They were in communion with God, provided for, full of grace and power. But it came with one condition: don't eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Eating the fruit was not the sin. Dispbeying God was. Similarly, Psyche has everything, with one condition. She disobeys, and she is punished.

3. No, she doesn't deserve it really. But she chose Orual over the god.

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Posted : July 29, 2010 5:53 pm
daughter of the King
(@dot)
Princess Dot Moderator

1. I don't see how it could be the worst case scenario. Psyche's worst case scenario would be if she really was crazy. But she's not.

2. First and foremost I think it was unforgivable because she was told not to. It was a matter of obedience. It could also be because mortals were not allowed to look upon the gods, but there are myths where the mortal sees the god but the god allows them to remain unaltered. But it still comes down to obedience.

3. She does and she doesn't. She deserves her fate because she did disobey. She doesn't deserve it because Orual almost gave her no choice. I say almost because I don't think Orual could have actually killed Psyche or herself. Psyche has overpowered her physically before and she could do it again.

4. If the god was the Brute, then she would have felt some justification for her actions because she would have "rescued" Psyche from a horrible beast. But since he was beautiful and golden rather than ugly and dark she had no reason to drive Psyche away from him. He was all Psyche said he was and more.

ahsokasig
Narniaweb sister to Pattertwig's Pal

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Posted : July 30, 2010 5:12 am
Lady Haleth
(@lady-haleth)
NarniaWeb Junkie

1. No, I don't think that is the 'worst case scenario'. She isn't crazy, this is real. If she was crazy, it would be. But she isn't.
2I think it was because she'd been told not to. She was supposed to be obedient, but she wasn't. Its like those fairy tale taboos--she can be perfectly happy unless she does this one thing, but she does it.
3Sort of, and sort of not. She did disobey, but she was kind of forced into it by Orual. But still--she didn't have to yield. I think its like when people have to choose between their family and God. Family is a wonderful thing, but it doesn't belong before God. If Orual hadn't awakened her doubts, I think, like daughter of the King said, if it had come to a physical struggle, Psyche could have beaten Orual. But she didn't want to.
4. Its one thing to anger a bad villainous creature. If she died, she would have at least known she was right. But now she's aware that she forced her sister to sin against a good, righteous, and powerful being, so she knows she is terribly wrong.

The glory of God is man fully alive--St. Iraneus
Salvation is a fire in the midnight of the soul-Switchfoot

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Posted : July 31, 2010 2:24 am
Lady_Liln
(@lady_liln)
NarniaWeb Nut

1. Orual assumes that Psyche's "worst case scenario" is dying undeceived. Do you agree with this? Why or why not?

No, Psyche is sane and Orual knows that there's at least a good margin of error that allots for Psyche's sanity.

2. Why do you think it was such an awful, unforgivable sin for Psyche to look at the god? Was it because to do so would be to disobey him? Because for a mortal to see a god was not permitted? What are other reasons?

I'm gonna go with it being because she had been told not to, but I still don't really "get" the whole can't see his face thing. Hopefully this gets clearer?

3. Does Psyche deserve her fate? Is she culpable for her actions?

What someone "deserves" is an awfully sticky mess to get into. So, I'm just gonna go with the fact that Psyche was still very much responsible for her behavior, whether she was driven to it by Orual's threats or not.

4. "A monster—the Shadowbrute that I and all Glome had imagined—would have subdued me less than the beauty this face wore." What does Orual mean by this?

Orual found out that the inkling in the back of her mind that the gods were real could no longer be shoved down. I think this reality and the fact that she had torn Psyche from this are painful to her, though I don't know that she's sorry. . .


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Posted : August 1, 2010 4:09 pm
Pattertwigs Pal
(@twigs)
Member Moderator

1. Orual assumes that Psyche's "worst case scenario" is dying undeceived. Do you agree with this? Why or why not?

No, I think it would be harder living then dying (as long as the afterlife isn’t bad). Living with the pain of disobeying the god and being separated from him or living with the shame of having been with some kind of horrible creature/person and the hurt of being deceived would be worse than dying.

2. Why do you think it was such an awful, unforgivable sin for Psyche to look at the god? Was it because to do so would be to disobey him? Because for a mortal to see a god was not permitted? What are other reasons?

I really don’t know. It is always a sin to disobey a god. Psyche seems to think her lover will forgive her. In fact, I’m not sure her lover didn’t forgive her. I don’t think all that happened because a mortal isn’t allowed to see a god. Orual sees the god and nothing happens to her and it is common in mythology for gods to appear to people (as in the story of Aphrodite and the shepherd that Fox tells). From what the god says, it seems as if it all is tied up with some restraint that was put on him.

Now Psyche goes out into exile. Now she must hunger and thirst and tread hard roads. Those against whom I cannot fight must do their will upon her.

The last sentence makes me think that someone higher up is regulating things. Either he isn’t strong enough to fight the “those” or he is not allowed to. I’m wondering if in order to marry Psyche and give her that house, etc., he had to agree not to let her see him. Maybe the other gods didn’t like the idea of his doing that so he had to agree to certain conditions. That is just a guess on my part, there isn’t much to go on except that quote I posted.

3. Does Psyche deserve her fate? Is she culpable for her actions?

She disobeyed she has to suffer the consequences. She knew what she was doing was wrong. That doesn’t mean that Orual isn’t also to blame and doesn’t deserve punishment. This reminds me of Adam, Eve, and the serpent. God didn’t let any of them escape punishment. Although the serpent persuaded Eve to eat the fruit, Eve was still held accountable for her actions. The punishment is similar too – being exiled.

4. "A monster—the Shadowbrute that I and all Glome had imagined—would have subdued me less than the beauty this face wore." What does Orual mean by this?

The beauty was more powerful than any horror could be. I think it is like what would happen if Moses would have seen God. Assuming that the god is a holy creature and pure (or at least better than humans), I think it would be more subduing to meet something that is obviously better than oneself than something that is evil. One would feel shame coming face to face with a god. Orual wanted to see the Shadowbrute, she didn’t want Psyche’s lover to be a god. If she had seen the Shadowbrute she would have had the satisfaction of being right, but by seeing a god she didn’t have that.


NW sister to Movie Aristotle & daughter of the King

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Posted : August 2, 2010 3:40 pm
Movie Aristotle
(@risto)
NarniaWeb Junkie

2. Perhaps the command not to look at him wasn't an arbitrary one, but rather for her own safety.

3. I think her fate is a bit undeserved. The punishment doesn't seem to fit the crime, but maybe we'll learn more as the story progresses.

4. The god's beauty was more terrible than ugliness. Not all things that are terrible are ugly. This is why I wonder if the god wasn't trying to safegaurd Psyche by telling her not to look at him. Their lives together would never be the same.

Movie Aristotle, AKA Risto

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Posted : September 26, 2010 1:17 pm
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