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Chapter 11: Division Between Sisters

Destined-To-Reign
(@destined-to-reign)
NarniaWeb Junkie

1. Orual sways between thinking that Psyche is either mad or else that she can really see things that Orual can't. There's a lot of evidence, and most of it could support either theory. Did Orual come to the (albeit wavering) conclusion that Psyche was mad simply because she wanted to believe that? Why didn't Orual want to believe that Psyche really experienced all the things she said she did?

2. Would you have thought Psyche mad, or would you have believed her?

3. Orual is very angry throughout this chapter, but her anger seems unfocused and undirected. With whom is she angry? The gods? Psyche? The West Wind? Does she handle her anger well?

4. Why do you think Psyche isn't allowed to see her husband?

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Topic starter Posted : July 23, 2010 8:04 am
Lady Haleth
(@lady-haleth)
NarniaWeb Junkie

1. Partly, yes. Psyche didn't act crazy at all, but Orual seems determined to believe that because it seems better to her than the alternative--that the gods are real, personal, and involved in peoples' lives. Because it separated her and Psyche. Before, they had shared everything, and now Psyche is going where Orual can't follow. And Orual can't stand the idea of that.
2. I don't know. Its rather like the situation with Lucy and the Wardrobe--I love the story, so I'd like to think I'd say yes, but if such a thing really happened to me, I probably not believe it. It would be too wild, too strange, too fantastical. I don't have that big of a faith.
3. I'm not sure. She seems to be angry at the gods and at Psyche, as well as just angry in general. Not very well, I would say. She tries to compel Psyche to come with her by force.
4. I've reread the book several times and this has always puzzled me. It seems a bit like a test of faith: He can't show himself to her--not yet, anyway--but will she still believe in him? Its rather like our own faith: we are asked to believe many things about a God who will not show himself. I think she could also be, in some sense, 'not ready' to see his face. If she was in awe and fear at the other spirits, how much more will she be in awe and fear of him?

The glory of God is man fully alive--St. Iraneus
Salvation is a fire in the midnight of the soul-Switchfoot

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Posted : July 23, 2010 10:40 am
daughter of the King
(@dot)
Princess Dot Moderator

1. I think it was easier for Orual to think that Psyche was mad than for her to believe that Psyche lived with a god. Since she couldn't see the house or the feast, she couldn't believe that they existed. She was like Peter, "Sir, if things are real they're there all the time." She didn't have the Professor to reply, "Are they?"

2. I would like to say that I would have believed her, but I think the answer is no. Unless I had been through something like Psyche's experience myself, I would probably not be able to understand it. I hope I wouldn't act like Orual did.

3. I think her anger might go back to her possessiveness of Psyche. Orual is the one who is supposed to take care of Psyche. Orual is the one who is supposed to make Psyche happy. Only the Fox can intrude on her territory. When Psyche doesn't need her she is lost. She is angry at Psyche because Psyche won't come back to her. She is angry at the gods because they took Psyche away from her. She is angry at the West Wind because he is holding Psyche. She definitely does not handle her anger well.

4. I don't know. I think I always just accepted it as part of the story because that's how it goes in the original myth. Perhaps she is not allowed to see him because she is a mortal. In most legends (and in the Bible sometimes) don't people believe that if they see the gods they will die?

ahsokasig
Narniaweb sister to Pattertwig's Pal

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Posted : July 24, 2010 5:37 am
Lady Haleth
(@lady-haleth)
NarniaWeb Junkie

Yes, something like that. That's why Moses, for example, couldn't look on the face of God.

The glory of God is man fully alive--St. Iraneus
Salvation is a fire in the midnight of the soul-Switchfoot

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Posted : July 26, 2010 7:35 am
Lady_Liln
(@lady_liln)
NarniaWeb Nut

1. Orual sways between thinking that Psyche is either mad or else that she can really see things that Orual can't. There's a lot of evidence, and most of it could support either theory. Did Orual come to the (albeit wavering) conclusion that Psyche was mad simply because she wanted to believe that? Why didn't Orual want to believe that Psyche really experienced all the things she said she did?

I think Orual is still mad at the gods for taking her Psyche. She would be much more content to believe her dear Psyche is mad and needs Orual to help her rather then believe that the gods have given Psyche a palace and such which Orual is not allowed to see.

2. Would you have thought Psyche mad, or would you have believed her?

I'd like to say I'd believe her, but I'm not really sure.

3. Orual is very angry throughout this chapter, but her anger seems unfocused and undirected. With whom is she angry? The gods? Psyche? The West Wind? Does she handle her anger well?

I don't think she's even sure who to be angry at. She's angry at the gods for taking Psyche. She's angry at Psyche for being happy. She's angry at the West Wind for, uh, saving Psyche? I'm not too sure why she's mad at him. :p Nope, not well handled anger.

4. Why do you think Psyche isn't allowed to see her husband?

Umm, well, because I read the Wiki article on Cupid and Psyche (it's a retelling! I wanted to know what it's a retelling of ). It's apparently a part of the tale. How's that for a non-answer? ;)


Avatar and sig by hyaline12

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Posted : July 26, 2010 5:44 pm
Bookwyrm
(@bookwyrm)
NarniaWeb Guru

1. I think on some level Orual does believe that Psyche is telling the truth. I think she refuses to allow herself to believe it because it would be the final division between the two sisters. It's far worse than just death because if Psyche becomes the wife of a god, Orual doesn't even have the slight hope of being with Psyche in the afterlife. It's easier to believe that Psyche is just mad, because then there's hope for her to be cured.

2. It reminds me of the Professor's test for Lucy in LWW. She's either mad, lying, or telling the truth. Psyche doesn't lie, she doesn't seem mad, so that leaves only that she's telling the truth. Also, I don't see any way she could have gotten free of the chains herself and made her way to the valley, much less have lived off of water and berries without serious health consequences.

3. I think Orual's anger is related to her possessive love of Psyche. Psyche doesn't need her anymore. Psyche makes this very clear and she is referred to as a woman several times. She's not the cute little baby sister who needs caring for anymore. So Orual has lost her sister as well as the only thing that gave her worth and purpose. She responds by basically exploding in rage at everything, so not very well-handled anger.

4. This details reminds me of the fairy tale "East of the Sun, West of the Moon". In it, the heroine marries a man who is a polar bear by day and human by night. Each night he enters their bedroom in human form and she cannot see his face or bad things will happen. It was a test of obedience and love in the fairy tale, so perhaps it is something similar in this story. Or it could be like the Percy Jackson books and seeing the god's true form would turn her crispy.

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Posted : July 26, 2010 8:30 pm
Pattertwigs Pal
(@twigs)
Member Moderator

1. Orual sways between thinking that Psyche is either mad or else that she can really see things that Orual can't. There's a lot of evidence, and most of it could support either theory. Did Orual come to the (albeit wavering) conclusion that Psyche was mad simply because she wanted to believe that? Why didn't Orual want to believe that Psyche really experienced all the things she said she did?

I think she came to that conclusion because she wanted to. She writes:

Then (like a great light, a hope of deliverance, it came to me) I asked myself why I’d forgotten, and how long I’d forgotten that first notion of her being mad. … At the very name madness the air of the valley seemed more breathable, seemed emptied of a little of its holiness and horror.

She also writes

I saw in a flash that I must choose one opinion or the other; and in the same flash knew which I had chosen.

Orual has a real prejudice against the gods. She associates them with envy and evil. This world doesn’t fit into her picture of the gods. Orual says to Psyche:

Oh you ought to have been one of Ungit’s girls. You ought to have lived in there in the dark – all blood and incense and muttering and the reek of burnt fat. To like it – living among things you can’t see – dark and holy and horrible.

If Orual believes Pysche, then it puts Pysche in a place of power above her. Orual wants Pysche to need her and only her. She wants to take care of Pysche. She doesn’t want Pysche to have anything thing she cannot share. If Orual is to share in any of Pysche’s things, she has to submit to the “He,” Pysche’s husband. That is the last thing she wants to do. “He” is the very thing that took Pysche away and caused the gap between them. If Pysche is mad, then Orual gets her power back and has someone to take care of and who needs her.

2. Would you have thought Psyche mad, or would you have believed her?

I really don’t know. While reading the story, I believe her. I’d like to say I’d believe her, but being a bit of a skeptic I’m not sure if I would. However, if I already believed in the gods, I think I would believe her. Also since I have read PC and LB, I am more open to the idea of things being there that not everyone can see. I think a main reason why in the context of the store I believe Pysche is because it reminds me of Aslan’s country in LB and how the dwarfs don’t see what the others do.

3. Orual is very angry throughout this chapter, but her anger seems unfocused and undirected. With whom is she angry? The gods? Psyche? The West Wind? Does she handle her anger well?

I don’t think she is angry with anyone person. I think it is mostly aimed at the gods, specifically Pysche’s husband. I think she is angry at Pysche and angry at the whole situation. I wonder if she is also a little angry at herself. She definitely does not handle her angry well. She attacks the one person that means the most to her; the one she loves the most.

4. Why do you think Psyche isn't allowed to see her husband?

He is either so horrible / ugly he would scary her or so beautiful and /or majestic it would kill her to look upon or if not kill her be too much for her. Moses couldn’t look at God because it would kill him.


NW sister to Movie Aristotle & daughter of the King

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Posted : July 27, 2010 12:46 pm
Movie Aristotle
(@risto)
NarniaWeb Junkie

1. I think the most powerful passage in this chapter is the one about Orual seeing her sister in the rain and Psyche not caring about it anymore than cattle might. This image of a sister sitting in the rain and insisting that she is warm and dry in her house, -it's very powerful and Psyche is very pitiful. It would be hard for any sister not to want to save their sibling from such madness.

2. I don't think I would believe Psyche, but I'd be confused and curious enough to want to test Psyche's story.

4. I too thought of "East of the Sun, West of the Moon". I have a feeling that if she sees her husband's face, bad things will happen. Maybe she isn't ready for it, or maybe he isn't. It is also a bit of a test of obedience. I think that Psyche won't always be forbidden to look on her husband's face.

Movie Aristotle, AKA Risto

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Posted : September 5, 2010 8:15 pm
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