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9 – How They Discovered Something Worth Knowing  

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Pattertwigs Pal
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1. Do you agree that “Scrubb and Puddleglum both did their best, but girls do that kind of thing better than boys. Even boys do it better than Marsh-wiggles?”

2. What clues does Lewis give the reader that the gentle giants are not safe and that the children and Puddleglum are in danger?

3. If you were in the place of the children and Puddleglum, do you think you would have suspected you were about to be eaten?

4. On the same day, the children and Puddleglum realize they have eaten talking stag and that “Man” and “Marsh-wiggle” appear in the giants’ cookbook. Which discovery was more disturbing to you?

5. Would you, like Scrubb, have continued reading the entry for “Man” in the cookbook?

6. Is it significant that Jill’s dress is green?

7. Edit:Why do you think the giants gave Eustace a sword?

To make matters worse, they were now in the clothes that the giants had provided for them last night: except Puddleglum, whom nothing would fit. Jill wore a vivid green robe, rather too long for her, and over that a scarlet mantle fringed with white fur. Scrubb had scarlet stockings, blue tunic and cloak, a gold-hilted sword, and a feathered bonnet.

. Did the giants provide Eustace with the sword or is it the one he got from Cair Paravel? If he got it from Cair Paravel why do you think Lewis chose to mention it this context with the added detail about its hilt? /Edit

8. Do you think the pursuing hounds were normal or giant-sized?

9. “There was no noise. And that was the very worst moment Jill had ever known in her life. Supposing she was alone: supposing the others … ” Wow. Can you imagine?

10. There are several uncomfortable or difficult situations in this chapter. Which one do you relate to the most?

11. What image sticks in your mind the most?

12. Discuss how this chapter should be adapted. (ex. what do you most want to see, what problems do you see, etc.)


Silver Chair Reading Group
NW sister to Movie Aristotle & daughter of the King

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Posted : June 12, 2017 12:23 am
starsdaughter
(@starsdaughter)
NarniaWeb Newbie

1. Do you agree that “Scrubb and Puddleglum both did their best, but girls do that kind of thing better than boys. Even boys do it better than Marsh-wiggles?”

I think girls can be inclined to work the whole "being cute" thing better than boys. At least, that is what I imagine. I have two small boys and I think they are pretty cute! But they generally don't try to "work it."

2. What clues does Lewis give the reader that the gentle giants are not safe and that the children and Puddleglum are in danger?

Even the door closing behind them with an ominous sound should have clued them in at the very beginning. The king licking his lips, the attitude and actions of the giants towards the talking stag are all clues that this is a very dangerous place indeed.

3. If you were in the place of the children and Puddleglum, do you think you would have suspected you were about to be eaten?

I think that I would just have focused on recovering from the long exposure to the wilderness elements. Just being dry and warm would have had a very lulling effect.

4. On the same day, the children and Puddleglum realize they have eaten talking stag and that “Man” and “Marsh-wiggle” appear in the giants’ cookbook. Which discovery was more disturbing to you?

Let's just put it this way: I think Scrubb had a lot of guts to keep on reading about how to cook men. I would have joined Jill and not been able to bear reading more.

5. Would you, like Scrubb, have continued reading the entry for “Man” in the cookbook?

Haha, see above answer. :)

6. Is it significant that Jill’s dress is green?

She is squarely in enemy territory here so it is no surprise that the garb of those who have deep schemes against Narnia is green. :)

7. Why do you think the giants gave Eustace a sword?

I never thought about that before. It was probably a courtesy thing culturally speaking.

8. Do you think the pursuing hounds were normal or giant-sized?

Normal sized.

9. “There was no noise. And that was the very worst moment Jill had ever known in her life. Supposing she was alone: supposing the others … ” Wow. Can you imagine?

Yeah . . . having to starve to death a mile under the earth next to the fallen bodies of her comrades . . . but we are all happy that was not Jill's fate!

10. There are several uncomfortable or difficult situations in this chapter. Which one do you relate to the most?

Probably the episode of trying to sneak out of the kitchen. :) I've never had to escape from giants, but I have had to tip toe out of a room where I've just settled a baby who is a finicky sleeper. Sneaking out of the room is truly nerve-wracking.

11. What image sticks in your mind the most?

I've never been a runner plus I really dislike narrow, close places. So I think the picture of Jill running for her life from the dogs and the others being so far ahead, plus having to fling herself flat on your face and wiggle into the crack in the earth at the finish line, is one of the most harrowing images in this chapter.

12. Discuss how this chapter should be adapted. (ex. what do you most want to see, what problems do you see, etc.)

I would like to see the drawn-out tension of their escape. The discovery of the recipe, sneaking out the kitchen, walking off the grounds, then the chase at the end builds that tension nicely. I'd like to see that say, instead of the giant cook waking up and chasing them or sounding the alarm.

http://www.etsy.com/shop/araneldesigns

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Posted : June 12, 2017 12:57 pm
waggawerewolf27
(@waggawerewolf27)
NarniaWeb Zealot

I'll get back to the questions later, but in the meantime this chapter deserves some thought. :)

5. Would you, like Scrubb, have continued reading the entry for “Man” in the cookbook?

Maybe, but, to be honest, I was more interested in how the giants could reduce the marshwiggle's muddy flavour. By doing what? Getting said marshwiggle drunk on whisky or an appropriate equivalent first, by any chance? Pickled or marinated marshwiggle? :-o No wonder Puddleglum protested at being marinated in his favourite tipple! ;;)

6. Is it significant that Jill’s dress is green?

Of course it is significant. The green dress only slightly too big for Jill, herself, merely confirms what Jill, herself, suspected in the previous chapter. That is to say, the human-sized furniture, and table settings, plus the clothes she had been given whilst having her own clothes laundered, were only available because the Lady of the Green Kirtle had visited Harfang before she met our travellers at the bridge. That is to say, if LOTGK went there by horse, she would have had to cross the ruined city first. And so LOTGK prevaricates somewhat. :^o

7. Why do you think the giants gave Eustace a sword?

Hey wait a minute! I never saw where the giants gave Eustace a sword? I'll have to see the reference in my (British) edition. I've always assumed that it was his own sword, left for him at Cair Paravel, since swords aren't laundry items. He'd need a sword to defend himself, no doubt, and Harfang isn't "that" sort of establishment, where the staff can get away with it if they steal guests' property, LOTGK would have you know. =)) Would Eustace be even able to lift a giantish sword? And how was it that Puddleglum still had his tinder box to that point? And his sword.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1QDQp ... N3dGM/view

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Posted : June 12, 2017 8:57 pm
Pattertwigs Pal
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7. Why do you think the giants gave Eustace a sword?

Hey wait a minute! I never saw where the giants gave Eustace a sword? I'll have to see the reference in my (British) edition. I've always assumed that it was his own sword, left for him at Cair Paravel, since swords aren't laundry items.

Here's what the book says:

To make matters worse, they were now in the clothes that the giants had provided for them last night: except Puddleglum, whom nothing would fit. Jill wore a vivid green robe, rather too long for her, and over that a scarlet mantle fringed with white fur. Scrubb had scarlet stockings, blue tunic and cloak, a gold-hilted sword, and a feathered bonnet.

I'd quite forgotten about his sword from Cair Paravel. :ymblushing: I assumed that since it was included in the list the giant's gave it to him. I guess it could be the sword he got at Cair Paravel. A gold-hilted sword sounds like it would go with a "fancy" outfit like he is wearing. Are gold-hilted swords common?

Would Eustace be even able to lift a giantish sword? And how was it that Puddleglum still had his tinder box to that point? And his sword.

The clothes they gave him certainly aren't giantish. I assumed that the sword came with the outfit. Where ever that came from.


Silver Chair Reading Group
NW sister to Movie Aristotle & daughter of the King

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Posted : June 13, 2017 3:36 pm
Anhun
(@anhun)
NarniaWeb Nut

A gold-hilted sword sounds like it would go with a "fancy" outfit like he is wearing. Are gold-hilted swords common?

Not in this universe. :p

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Posted : June 13, 2017 5:18 pm
waggawerewolf27
(@waggawerewolf27)
NarniaWeb Zealot

No worries, Pattertwig's Pal. :ymhug:

The clothes they gave him certainly aren't giantish. I assumed that the sword came with the outfit. Where ever that came from.

Actually, that description of their clothing, isn't the only reason or place I needed to check about the sword. I did have a vague memory that Scrubb lost something or other on the giant bridge. But though I did check, I couldn't find any support for that incident in my British edition of the book, either, and now I wonder where else I saw or heard about that particular incident? In the BBC TV version, perhaps?

If Eustace definitely had dropped his sword when on the Giant Bridge, the sword he had when leaving Harfang could well have come with the clothes if the clothes had belonged previously to some Narnian champion who had gone in search of Prince Rilian. In which case the giants really were in the habit of stealing guests' clothes and belongings. But how many Narnian champions were likely to have been carrying gold-hilted swords, even if close to Caspian, himself? For that matter, how many of the seekers would have been humans at all?

A recent and more likely Harfang visitor, who could have left it, might have been LOTGK's silent knight companion. In which case, the sword technically belonged to the silent knight, which means that Eustace, if asked about the sword, and if he thought about it, could have claimed he had a duty to return it to its proper owner. ;) But I don't want to get ahead of myself. O:) I did note in the previous chapter and my previous post on this thread that Jill was obviously wearing the LOTGK's hand-me-downs, and that she already assumed as much the previous night.

No, such swords with golden hilts aren't common, even where Crown Jewels are kept and where swords, like crowns and other items like sceptres etc, have names, tradition and symbolism attached. I don't know which ones, if any, did have fully golden hilts, as opposed to mainly golden decoration, and would have thought such swords would have been somewhat impractical, due to weightiness, and that they were mainly for display and prestige in important ceremonial occasions.

But I doubt such swords were all that common even in Narnia. I'm a bit surprised that such a sword would have been left out in Eustace's room even at Cair Paravel. Unless Glimfeather or someone else had suggested to the chamber maids that Eustace was no ordinary visitor to Cair Paravel :-? .
Now back to the questions. :D

1. Do you agree that “Scrubb and Puddleglum both did their best, but girls do that kind of thing better than boys. Even boys do it better than Marsh-wiggles?”

I'd imagine Scrubb would not be able to play that sort of part in helping to soothe any giantish suspicions nearly as well as Jill. We learn in VDT that he doesn't have the sort of background where social skills were a big priority. His mother, in particular, didn't seem the sort to put herself out to please anyone, and in the environment of Experiment House, where co-operation and social skills are less important than pandering to the bullies, he hasn't had the opportunity to develop any. And dressed the way he was, including that sword, he doesn't really look the part of a harmless little boy, curious about his surroundings. Puddleglum is in an even worse position, due to what we saw of the dour and pessimistic outlook of his fellow Marshwiggles, which is not how children are expected to be. Besides, Puddleglum is some sort of cold-blooded froggy being, that is to say, he keeps his sang froid most of the time. Does he also retain his sword at this point?

2. What clues does Lewis give the reader that the gentle giants are not safe and that the children and Puddleglum are in danger?

:-? So-called gentle giants aren't safe? Let me count the ways.....

1. Aslan's telling Jill about the signs in the first place. 2.The fact she and Eustace were to go north to the Ruined City of the Giants. Do we know the history of that city, and why it was ruined? No? 3. Eustace and Jill's briefing at the Parliament of Owls, where they were told that none of those searching for Rilian ever came back. 4. Eustace's own recollection to Puddleglum that Caspian had beaten the giants to the north of Narnia - which giants, and would these beaten giants really be friendly? 5. Their departure across the Shribble - C.S.Lewis' careful words do suggest not only the travellers' loneliness, but that they could be seen picking their way. By whom? 6. The behaviour of the Ettinsmoor giants. 7. The dilapidated Giants' bridge and the sort of carvings it is decorated with. 8. Meeting LOTGK and her armoured companion, plus her attempts to draw a distinction between the Ettinsmoor giants and the Harfang giants. 9.The fact that LOTGK knew very well where the Ruined City was but was disinclined to tell the children and Puddleglum where it was, directing them to Harfang, instead. 10. Puddleglum's misgivings about staying with giants, friendly or not. 11. The reception Puddleglum, Eustace and Jill got at Harfang, from the way playful Giants got Puddleglum drunk, to the body language of the Giants' King and Queen in their throne room. 12. Jill's dream about that toy horse, Aslan and the signs. 13. The fact their rooms were locked overnight, that Eustace and Puddleglum were escorted to Jill's room and that the nurse shut the door after leaving them all in Jill's room. 14. The sniggering and false sympathy shown by various giants to Jill and Eustace - "poor little things", indeed! 15. And to clinch it there was luncheon....

Right from the beginning there is a slow escalation of the danger Puddleglum, Eustace and Jill were in. And now they are really "in the soup", or, if they don't watch out, "in the man pie". They had better pay heed to that sign about "under me", soon.

3. If you were in the place of the children and Puddleglum, do you think you would have suspected you were about to be eaten?

Yes. Once I'd heard about the Talking Stag, I'd certainly get suspicious. I'm not surprised that Puddleglum, all along, wasn't so easily taken in by LOTGK's talk of "gentle" giants. Even Jill might remember worrying about Aslan eating her, though Aslan is a lot more trustworthy than the Giants. But up to that point, so far, the hospitality offered to them was impeccable. They didn't have any good reason so far to think the Giants were into eating their guests, and that they were to be the entree in the Autumn festivities. Let alone any inkling that the Harfang Giants were no better than the Ettinsmoor Giants in moral reasoning, even if they wore fancier clothes.

Once Puddleglum learned about the Talking Stag, and expressed his utter loathing of eating his fellow Old Narnians, who could talk back to him, the inference must be drawn that the Giants eat anything that moves, regardless of the victim's opinion, and totally without any moral scruples about what they ate.

By the way, how did the Talking Stag fall into the hands of the Harfang Giants?By way of Ettinsmoor, do you think?

I agree that Harfang is still a fair way from Ettinsmoor and the Narnian border. Perhaps the Harfang giants belonged to the same group of giants as those at Ettinsmoor, so I think that Ettinsmoor was just a border posting and Harfang was headquarters. *-:)

4. On the same day, the children and Puddleglum realize they have eaten talking stag and that “Man” and “Marsh-wiggle” appear in the giants’ cookbook. Which discovery was more disturbing to you?

Actually what I found most disturbing was the children and Puddleglum's realisation that they were eating Talking Stag, and how it challenged the principles and the attitudes of each of the travellers to what they ate. Jill had never tried venison before, since even in this world, venison is an expensive meat, being game, and only obtained by those with the right wildlife training, farming knowhow, and permissions, granted by those whose social status, and income allows such game- hunting on their own land. Or farming and importation where deer are not native. So Jill's attitude, being a stranger to Narnia, was most likely to resemble that of readers.

Even Eustace who had an animal friend from Narnia, and agreed it was a rotten thing to do to the Talking Stag, had not thought before that incident of the stag being a talking, thinking, and reasoning being before being killed, and the situation still took time to sink in. Whereas Puddleglum was a native Narnian, who saw the Stag as an equal, and thought of eating another native Narnian, as anathema to him.

8. Do you think the pursuing hounds were normal or giant-sized?

Normal sized and not necessarily talking dogs either. Though not as small as chihuahuas or Scottish terriers of course. Some dogs, like great Danes, Rottweillers or Dalmatians would be big enough for giants, anyway, especially beagles and other specialised hunting dogs.

I'll answer the other five questions later, to keep my posts shorter. :D

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1QDQp ... N3dGM/view

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Posted : June 13, 2017 7:27 pm
waggawerewolf27
(@waggawerewolf27)
NarniaWeb Zealot

Regrettably, I am double posting, to finish off the questions. I hope the moderators don't mind, after I waited about a fortnight, which allowed me time to check out not only the book, itself, but also what other media versions of SC are available, such as the relevant BBC audio drama (available in all seven books), the BBC TV series version of Silver Chair, and even the FotF audio SC.

7. Did the giants provide Eustace with the sword or is it the one he got from Cair Paravel? If he got it from Cair Paravel why do you think Lewis chose to mention it this context with the added detail about its hilt? /Edit

I can say categorically that the sword most definitely came from Cair Paravel. After all, to take a bath and put on new clothes, Eustace would have to undress first, and so he might well have had the chance to retain his sword, whatever else he parted with. In the previous chapter of the book, Scrubb and Puddleglum did not discuss their accommodation when they saw Jill the next morning, and when they finally escaped, it was mentioned that Puddleglum had to go on wearing his own clothes, because nothing the giants had fitted him.

I gather then that before Puddleglum arrived, there weren't any marsh-wiggles who had gone to find the Prince. Or were there? Do you think that the Talking Stag might have been one of those missing champions, who went independently at the same time Jill and Eustace set out? [spoiler=]Or was the Stag one of those sent out to search for Puddleglum, once the alarm was raised?[/spoiler]

In the BBC TV version, but not in the book, I discovered it was Eustace's quiver of arrows which fell down into the gorge from the Giant's bridge. Unless there is something in the book I've missed, Eustace did not lose any of the things he took from Puddleglum's wigwam before he reached Harfang. ;)

C.S.Lewis probably mentioned the hilt of the sword, because it can be inferred that Eustace, at any rate, had been wearing the sword all that day before going to the kitchen from whence they made their escape. The sword therefore, since it had a golden sort of hilt, was probably accepted as a ceremonial dress item which went with whatever outfit he was wearing. The other things they wore when they arrived at Harfang would now be lost, either because the Giants took them or because those items were left in their rooms.

9. “There was no noise. And that was the very worst moment Jill had ever known in her life. Supposing she was alone: supposing the others … ” Wow. Can you imagine?

Ouch! That would really be the worst moment of her journey so far, at any rate. Not only being shut up underground, but not hearing any noise, now the stones had stopped moving. Surely concern for what happened to Puddleglum and Eustace would also torment her, making the situation much worse, since she was unable to see.

10. There are several uncomfortable or difficult situations in this chapter. Which one do you relate to the most?

Thanks to some schoolmates I could relate to almost all of the uncomfortable and difficult situations, mentioned so far, with the possible exception of discovering someone was about to eat me, in particular. :ymsick: Those schoolmates liked to use their imaginations about the boring school food we got, no doubt. But whilst falling down into the hole was bad enough, or escaping from the giant's kitchen, running in the slightly too large sorts of clothes Jill was wearing would have to be the pits. I'm not able to run fast, and often not at all. Jill's long dress would not only impede her progress and slow her down, but might also trip her up.

11. What image sticks in your mind the most?

Jill's being chased by giants into a dark hole and fearing she is unable to move fast enough to evade them. And the feeling of being in a pitch black area unable to find the light switch, or a torch.

12. Discuss how this chapter should be adapted. (ex. what do you most want to see, what problems do you see, etc.)

This chapter is one of the more important chapters in the book, and it is high drama from the beginning to the end. There is the realisation that the travellers are in a trap, the methods they use to find a way to escape, the luncheon that tips them off that those "gentle" giants might not be so gentle, the nerve-wracking wait in the kitchen when they find out exactly why they should escape as quickly as possible, and their final chance to escape, almost thwarted when the giants came back from the hunt. This is easily a sequence of high drama, as they end up trying to reach the Ruined City and follow the directions they saw from the window at Harfang. And the subsequent falling into another predicament, this time in a horrifyingly dark hole, after sliding down a stony slope.

The main problem is how the giants are depicted, following on from the previous chapters, and also the first sight of the earthmen who take them into custody. Both groups are going to make substantial inroads into the CGI budget, though at least giants have been depicted in many movies beforehand. There is the problem again of balancing levels of lighting, though the darkness the travellers fall into is dramatic in itself.

This is a section that I hope reflects the book closely. I'd also like to see nice touches, like the Warden of Underland's style of speaking in a deep bass, and Jill's terror at being underground.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1QDQp ... N3dGM/view

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Posted : June 28, 2017 2:41 pm
Ryadian
(@ryadian)
Member Moderator

1. Do you agree that “Scrubb and Puddleglum both did their best, but girls do that kind of thing better than boys. Even boys do it better than Marsh-wiggles?”
I agree that the affect it likely would've had on the giants would have been different. Eustace is at an age where acting that excited and cheerful isn't really socially acceptable anymore, at least not for boys, so it either caused the giants to view him rather judgmentally, or suspiciously. On top of that, Eustace as his own person has never been shown to be particularly good at pretending to feel something he is not, and while Jill hasn't particularly demonstrated that quality before this, she has been shown to jump to a task quite enthusiastically if sufficiently motivated. Getting out of Harfang and back on track with the signs is sufficient motivation for her at this point.

I also have to say, I do love that Jill has this moment to really shine. So far, she's basically messed up every opportunity she's had, so it's great to see her not just get back on track, but do so so spectacularly.

2. What clues does Lewis give the reader that the gentle giants are not safe and that the children and Puddleglum are in danger?
Well, in addition to the unusual comments about "It's almost a pity", I think the fact that they find out that these so-called "gentle giants" not only knowingly killed and are eating a talking, sentient creature, they're laughing about it, is pretty clear foreshadowing of what's going on here. If they were so flippant about the deer, why would they feel any different about the children and Puddleglum?

3. If you were in the place of the children and Puddleglum, do you think you would have suspected you were about to be eaten?
Probably not - it's still just such a fantastical idea, even after they find out that the Harfang giants aren't opposed to eating talking beasts. Puddleglum seems used to the brutish, stupid giants who, while clearly not caring about anyone smaller than themselves, don't seem to be so evil as to lure in such people and treat them sweetly, all while intending to make pies of them. They've had a couple "To Serve Man"-esque wordplays which might have been a hint, but I think those are more for the audience's benefit than the characters, and they're so subtle that I only ever notice them on a re-read.

4. On the same day, the children and Puddleglum realize they have eaten talking stag and that “Man” and “Marsh-wiggle” appear in the giants’ cookbook. Which discovery was more disturbing to you?
The "Man" entry, definitely. The "Marsh-wiggle" entry indicates that giants don't typically like Marsh-wiggles, so it seems unlikely that they get hunted or eaten very often (which might explain why Marsh-wiggles are willing to live so relatively close to the giants and other races might not). The "Man" entry, however, makes it clear that at least once a year, the giants go out of their way to capture men to make pies out of, and it raises uncomfortable questions about why, perhaps, none of the other heroes who went out to look for Rilian ever came back....

5. Would you, like Scrubb, have continued reading the entry for “Man” in the cookbook?
I think I probably would've been too nervous about getting caught to keep reading at that point, but I do occasionally have a morbid curiosity and I might have.

7.

To make matters worse, they were now in the clothes that the giants had provided for them last night: except Puddleglum, whom nothing would fit. Jill wore a vivid green robe, rather too long for her, and over that a scarlet mantle fringed with white fur. Scrubb had scarlet stockings, blue tunic and cloak, a gold-hilted sword, and a feathered bonnet.

Did the giants provide Eustace with the sword or is it the one he got from Cair Paravel? If he got it from Cair Paravel why do you think Lewis chose to mention it this context with the added detail about its hilt?
I think this is the one from Cair Paravel - it seems very strange to me that the giants would give someone that they've coddled (and that they want to remain their prisoner) a weapon. Also, it seems like the kind of weapon the Narnians might bestow on a visitor from the Other World, not so much something the giants would just give away (even if they were capable of making such a thing, given that a lot of their creations are described as "crude" and "badly made"). I suppose it could be, as waggawerewolf27 suggested, a sword from another poor traveler that the giants had taken, but again, why would they give Eustace a sword? I think the reason why it's described for the first time here is because we're getting a full visual description of the group for the first time in a long time.

8. Do you think the pursuing hounds were normal or giant-sized?The hounds in the previous chapter are described as being of normal size (or horses, either, leading me to believe there aren't larger creatures in that part of the world), so I suspect they're normal-sized here. Besides, with the size of the crack they have to go through, I don't think a giant dog would be capable of getting in, so why would they be so concerned about sealing it up?

10. There are several uncomfortable or difficult situations in this chapter. Which one do you relate to the most?
I'm a bit claustrophobic myself, so I understand Jill's reaction to seeing the crack she has to go through. I would hope that, in a life or death situation, that wouldn't stop me (any more than it did her) from still diving in.

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Proud to be Sirya the Madcap Siren

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Posted : July 10, 2017 12:32 pm
shastastwin
(@shastastwin)
Member Moderator Emeritus

1. Do you agree that “Scrubb and Puddleglum both did their best, but girls do that kind of thing better than boys. Even boys do it better than Marsh-wiggles?”

I think this is definitely a matter of perception. Lewis makes a point about the way grown-ups (giant or otherwise) perceive the behavior of young people in this chapter several times (both here and when they're discussing the escape) and I think the point is that the giants will believe Jill's behavior in this instance better than Eustace's or Puddleglum's. (And Puddleglum's behavior has been shown to be ineffective even on his companions when it comes to being "frolicsome".) I think the BBC's version of this line shows this interpretation quite well, with Eustace lamenting Jill is better, and Pg saying, "Even boys are better than Marshwiggles."

4. On the same day, the children and Puddleglum realize they have eaten talking stag and that “Man” and “Marsh-wiggle” appear in the giants’ cookbook. Which discovery was more disturbing to you?

The Talking Stag. There's something very disturbing about the idea of being (in some respects) a cannibal. As Puddleglum points out, they've crossed a very strict spiritual line (albeit unknowingly). It brings to mind the dietary restrictions of the Old Testament as well as some of the old fairy tales and such where a cannibalistic taboo like this is presented as a sort of inverse Eucharist (at least that's what goes through my mind). That sort of parallel just adds more weight to the scene and turns my stomach.

6. Is it significant that Jill’s dress is green?

Actually, I came in here after listening to this chapter on the audio book to talk about this. I wanted to raise the question of whether anyone else noticed the parallels in Jill's behavior with the giants and the Lady's behavior with the trio. Both use words and affectation to deceive the other party and both are at least partially successful at steering the others away from their desired end (the ruined city and the Prince for the trio, man pies for the giants). Since Lewis doesn't usually give us extraneous details, I assume the green dress is significant -- either by way of highlighting these parallels, or by way of reminding us that the Lady visits these giants and is on good terms with them, and so might be a force yet to be reckoned with.

8. Do you think the pursuing hounds were normal or giant-sized?

As Ryadian pointed out, Lewis specifically says the hounds going on the hunt were normal-sized, though whether that means spaniels, terriers, or Great Danes, nobody can say for certain. :-$

9. “There was no noise. And that was the very worst moment Jill had ever known in her life. Supposing she was alone: supposing the others … ” Wow. Can you imagine?

Given Jill's claustrophobia already mentioned in "The Hill of the Strange Trenches", I can imagine she's terrified at this point. Honestly, even though small spaces aren't my biggest stressor, I wouldn't want to be alone in the dark underground. *shudders* It's not a pleasant thought, to say the least.

11. What image sticks in your mind the most?

The "pitch black voice" from the end of the chapter. It calls up the werewolf's grey voice from Prince Caspian.

12. Discuss how this chapter should be adapted. (ex. what do you most want to see, what problems do you see, etc.)

While it's technically from the last chapter, Jill's dream informs this chapter as well, and it's something I'd like to see adapted as closely to Lewis' descriptions as possible. It's quite frightening, and yet there is comfort in knowing that Aslan is still involved in the quest and is gently but sternly setting them back on the right track. For this chapter, I'd want most to see the moment with the Talking Stag presented in the spirit of the book. Though the BBC film did a fine job with this scene, I think it could easily come off as humorous rather than serious, and that isn't how it should be.

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Posted : July 13, 2017 4:04 am
Meltintalle
(@mel)
Member Moderator

3. If you were in the place of the children and Puddleglum, do you think you would have suspected you were about to be eaten?

No, not unless I'd already had heard rumors of the 'Gentle Giants' or other inhabitants of the North eating people.

4. On the same day, the children and Puddleglum realize they have eaten talking stag and that “Man” and “Marsh-wiggle” appear in the giants’ cookbook. Which discovery was more disturbing to you?

The second seems to follow naturally after the first, so, I'd say the fact that the Narnian party ate (and in Jill's case enjoyed) Talking Stag is the more disturbing.

5. Would you, like Scrubb, have continued reading the entry for “Man” in the cookbook?

Depending on the level of detail, yes, I probably would have.

6. Is it significant that Jill’s dress is green?

We can be certain that the green dye salesman did brisk business in this part of the world. :p More seriously, I've always assumed that Jill ended up clothed in one of the Lady of the Green Kirtle's gowns.

7. Did the giants provide Eustace with the sword or is it the one he got from Cair Paravel? If he got it from Cair Paravel why do you think Lewis chose to mention it this context with the added detail about its hilt?

I've always assumed it was the one from Cair Paravel (though I do confuse Puddleglum's second-best bow with Caspian's second-best sword--poor Eustace, never getting the really nice things); and the gold-hilt may indicate that it's of fine quality or it may indicate that it's just a gilded bit of inferior metal meant only for show and not for use.

8. Do you think the pursuing hounds were normal or giant-sized?

Pauline Baynes drew them as normal sized hounds: foxhound, coonhound, plott hound type so I'm going with the majority on this one.

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Posted : December 22, 2017 4:12 pm
Movie Aristotle
(@risto)
NarniaWeb Junkie

1. Do you agree that “Scrubb and Puddleglum both did their best, but girls do that kind of thing better than boys. Even boys do it better than Marsh-wiggles?”

Boys definitely do that kind of thing better than Marsh-wiggles.

3. If you were in the place of the children and Puddleglum, do you think you would have suspected you were about to be eaten?

This is one of those things that makes so much sense in retrospect, but doesn't quite come to mind as it is happening. When one is being sent to the Autumn Feast, one does not usually think one will become the autumn feast.

Finding out that the giants don't mind eating talking stag is a big clue that they wouldn't mind eating people either, but again, it is so contrary to civilized behavior that it isn't the first thought to spring to mind. However, I would, like them, have wanted to leave as soon as possible at that point.

5. Would you, like Scrubb, have continued reading the entry for “Man” in the cookbook?

Probably, but I also would have stopped when asked.

8. Do you think the pursuing hounds were normal or giant-sized?

I think upon my first reading I imagined giant dogs, but later I've come to the imagining of normal-sized dogs. Although Puddleglum fears giant earthworms, Lewis doesn't give us any indication that any of the animals in this land actually are giant-sized.

10. There are several uncomfortable or difficult situations in this chapter. Which one do you relate to the most?

I hope I don't relate to any of them!

11. What image sticks in your mind the most?

Probably the hunting party departing for the hunt. I'm not sure why.

But the part that captures my imagination the most is Jill and the others exploring the house and learning all they could about it. The scenes that Lewis doesn't describe in great detail are the ones where your imagination can fill in the gaps.

Movie Aristotle, AKA Risto

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Posted : May 7, 2018 2:45 pm
Valiant_Nymph
(@valiant_nymph)
NarniaWeb Junkie

1. Do you agree that “Scrubb and Puddleglum both did their best, but girls do that kind of thing better than boys. Even boys do it better than Marsh-wiggles?”
It is more socially acceptable for girls to do it than boys, after a certain age. So it might come easier to Jill, because she won't be viewed as suspiciously. I'm sure boys do it better than Marshwiggles though :p

3. If you were in the place of the children and Puddleglum, do you think you would have suspected you were about to be eaten?
Yes, because (to take a cue from Peter) in most stories, Giants want to eat children!

4. On the same day, the children and Puddleglum realize they have eaten talking stag and that “Man” and “Marsh-wiggle” appear in the giants’ cookbook. Which discovery was more disturbing to you?
I think they would cause different kinds of disturbing emotions. The discovery that they might 'man' would be frightening in the usual sense, but the idea of having eaten a talking stag would be disgusting, and in some ways, guilt inducing.

5. Would you, like Scrubb, have continued reading the entry for “Man” in the cookbook?
Maybe a little bit, out of shock.

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Posted : May 8, 2018 10:07 am
TheLukeskywalker2
(@thelukeskywalker2)
NarniaWeb Regular

2. What clues does Lewis give the reader that the gentle giants are not safe and that the children and Puddleglum are in danger?

The biggest one this chapter is the Talking Stag. That was a huge red flag considering the rest of the books. Another sign was the continual "You poor little thing" from every giant that they talked to. And once  they found out that they would be food in the feast would be, they should be immediately suspicious of the LotGK, not trusting a word that she says again. 

3. If you were in the place of the children and Puddleglum, do you think you would have suspected you were about to be eaten?

I would have known something was up, because hearing "You poor little thing" over and over has got to make you a little suspicious, especially when you have no clue to what they are referring. And after the Talking Stag, I would not doubt anything when it comes to the giants. 

4. On the same day, the children and Puddleglum realize they have eaten talking stag and that “Man” and “Marsh-wiggle” appear in the giants’ cookbook. Which discovery was more disturbing to you?

Talking stag was probably the most significant one my first time through. It put my guard immediately up as it said that these giants are not friendly with Narnians, as they disrespect talking beasts. No one that stood with Narnians with anything would continually eat Talking Beasts and boast about it. 

5. Would you, like Scrubb, have continued reading the entry for “Man” in the cookbook?

No, probably not. 

6. Is it significant that Jill’s dress is green?

Considering that green is the only color that has been specifically called out multiple times in the past few chapter, I can't believe that it just happened to be coincidental that her dress was green at this point. The other two people that have been describe by the color green are LotGK and the giant queen. I'm not sure what the connection is, but I'm sure that he was specifically calling Jill's dress out as green here.

7. Did the giants provide Eustace with the sword or is it the one he got from Cair Paravel? If he got it from Cair Paravel why do you think Lewis chose to mention it this context with the added detail about its hilt?

Maybe the giants did in order to make them feel welcomed and as part of their society in order to make it less likely for them to guess that they were about to be eaten. 

8. Do you think the pursuing hounds were normal or giant-sized?

Normal if I had to guess. The closer to the ground, the better they would be at hunting. And smaller dogs would be better at getting places that the huge giants would simply not be able to get to on their own. 

12. Discuss how this chapter should be adapted. (ex. what do you most want to see, what problems do you see, etc.)

This highly depends on how they do the last chain of chapters. If they remained accurate to the book, accuracy will make their job easy for another chapter. But if they messed anything up in the lead up to this moment, they have to fix it here, and it might be a mess if they do. I don't know exactly. Too much of it depends on the other chapters that took place in Harfang.. 

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Posted : May 15, 2020 3:58 pm
Eustace
(@eustace)
NarniaWeb Junkie

5. Would you, like Scrubb, have continued reading the entry for “Man” in the cookbook?
I probably would have read on, curosity would get the best of me in this situation. I understand why Eustace could not help reading farther.

6. Is it significant that Jill’s dress is green?
Yes, I do consider this significant. This may be something they got from the LOTGK or it could be just something that is alluding to their relationship with the LOTGK.

8. Do you think the pursuing hounds were normal or giant-sized?

I always thought that the hounds were normal sized, I guess just because I couldn't imagine that they had found giant dogs just for them. But, I suppose they could be either.

9. “There was no noise. And that was the very worst moment Jill had ever known in her life. Supposing she was alone: supposing the others … ” Wow. Can you imagine?

This would be a really terrifying moment. I would probably start screaming if I thought the others were caught and eaten by the giants.

12. Discuss how this chapter should be adapted. (ex. what do you most want to see, what problems do you see, etc.)

It is important while adapting this chapter to leave the audience in suspense whenever possible. I would love this to be a really scary chapter. Although, I do not do well with scary, I think it would work well here. I would rather the audience be terrified that someone is going to get caught by the giants. Maybe, we can the children and Puddleglum hug after they escape because they were so terrified.Jill tearing up for a moment thinking that Eustace and Puddleglum did not escape would be a good moment in the movie of tv series.


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Posted : May 19, 2020 9:15 am
Pattertwigs Pal
(@pattertwigs-pal)
Member Moderator

1. Do you agree that “Scrubb and Puddleglum both did their best, but girls do that kind of thing better than boys. Even boys do it better than Marsh-wiggles?”
I’m pretty sure that boys do it better than Marsh-wiggles. Otherwise, I say it might depend on the child. Some of my male students (2 ½ -4 years old) do that type of thing very well and some of the girls do not.

2. What clues does Lewis give the reader that the gentle giants are not safe and that the children and Puddleglum are in danger?
The way the giantesses seem sad and cry a little when the interact with the children. Also, the pie plate was described as big enough for Jill to lie down in.

3. If you were in the place of the children and Puddleglum, do you think you would have suspected you were about to be eaten?
I think I would be suspicious that something was terribly wrong. I’m not sure I would settle on being eaten as what it was.

4. On the same day, the children and Puddleglum realize they have eaten talking stag and that “Man” and “Marsh-wiggle” appear in the giants’ cookbook. Which discovery was more disturbing to you?
I think that they ate talking stag is more disturbing. It is something they did, albeit unknowingly, instead of something that was done to them.

5. Would you, like Scrubb, have continued reading the entry for “Man” in the cookbook?
No, I think I would be more worried about getting away.

6. Is it significant that Jill’s dress is green?

I think so. An old dress of LotG or a sort of honor to LotG.

7. Edit:Why do you think the giants gave Eustace a sword?

To make matters worse, they were now in the clothes that the giants had provided for them last night: except Puddleglum, whom nothing would fit. Jill wore a vivid green robe, rather too long for her, and over that a scarlet mantle fringed with white fur. Scrubb had scarlet stockings, blue tunic and cloak, a gold-hilted sword, and a feathered bonnet.

Did the giants provide Eustace with the sword or is it the one he got from Cair Paravel? If he got it from Cair Paravel why do you think Lewis chose to mention it this context with the added detail about its hilt? /Edit
As the crossed-out question indicates, I thought the giants gave it to him. Now I am not sure. It probably makes the most sense that it is the same sword that he got at Cair Parvel, but it seems odd that it is described here. However, context would seem to suggest that it is part of the outfit. I can’t decide. :P

8. Do you think the pursuing hounds were normal or giant-sized?
Normal. There is no evidence that any of the animals were giant-sized. I think giant hounds would have been fast enough to catch the children and Puddleglum.

10. There are several uncomfortable or difficult situations in this chapter. Which one do you relate to the most?
Being chased by hounds. My neighbors and I were chased by a dog when we were children and it bit me.

11. What image sticks in your mind the most?

The image of wet, sticky stuff on Jill’s face being blood. I remember it sticking with me when I was a child.

12. Discuss how this chapter should be adapted. (ex. what do you most want to see, what problems do you see, etc.)
I don’t want them to sugar coat it. I really want the children to be dressed exactly as described in the book.


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Posted : May 19, 2020 10:16 am
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