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[Closed] 14 – The Bottom of the World

Pattertwigs Pal
(@twigs)
Member Moderator

1. What does it say about Prince Rilian that he wants to go down into Bism?

2. Do you agree with Eustace that Reepicheep would advocate for going down to Bism?

3. Rilian blames his pride and fantasy for delaying them at Bism. Do you think pride and fantasy were also motivations for Caspian’s desire to go on at the End of the World? Why or why not?

4. What most appeals to you about Bism?

5. Would you be interested in visiting Bism?

6. Discuss how this chapter should be adapted. (ex. what do you most want to see, what problems do you see, etc.)


NW sister to Movie Aristotle & daughter of the King

Topic starter Posted : July 9, 2017 3:30 pm
waggawerewolf27
(@waggawerewolf27)
Member Hospitality Committee

1. What does it say about Prince Rilian that he wants to go down into Bism?

I think it suggests that even before his mother was killed that Prince Rilian might well have held his father, Caspian X, in awe, both for ousting Miraz and for undertaking that VDT voyage to Ramandu's Island. But I doubt that Rilian was actually close to his father, maybe because Caspian was bogged down in work all too often. Maybe Rilian also wanted to do something a bit spectacular to live up to his father's reputation. Being enchanted for 10 years by LOTGK can't be much to talk about.

2. Do you agree with Eustace that Reepicheep would advocate for going down to Bism?

No I don't. It is this that Eustace is referring to, but he seems to have forgotten

However, personal missions are one thing, and spur of the moment temptations are quite something else.

As exciting as Bism might look to explore, Reepicheep would have been horrified at Rilian's going there, having just been released from a ten-year enchantment, to enable him to return to Narnia to succeed Caspian.

3. Rilian blames his pride and fantasy for delaying them at Bism. Do you think pride and fantasy were also motivations for Caspian’s desire to go on at the End of the World? Why or why not?

No, I don't think so.

Posted : July 18, 2017 2:18 pm
shastastwin
(@shastastwin)
Member Moderator Emeritus

4. What most appeals to you about Bism?

The sheer otherness of the place -- the way it's so unlike what I've experienced before and has such a different view on life.

That's something I've noticed pops up quite a bit in this book, moreso than any other Narnia book, I think -- the concept of other people's views on life not being wrong just because they are different. The owls, the Marshwiggles, the giants, and the gnomes all have vastly different views on life from the children and (with the exception of the giants) these views are never presented as wrong. Simply different. I hope that the film is able to keep that thread going throughout, though I worry we're going to lose Bism altogether.

"All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies. And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you..."
Inexhaustible Inspiration

6689 posts from forum 1.0

Posted : July 19, 2017 6:28 am
Ryadian
(@rya)
Member Moderator

1. What does it say about Prince Rilian that he wants to go down into Bism?
It makes you wonder if Rilian ever felt like he was living in his father's shadow, and if he wanted to live up to it by having an adventure of his own. But, I'm more inclined to see it as his own natural sense of adventure - perhaps inherited and/or encouraged by his father, but I'm not inclined to think that he wanted to go to Bism for the sole purpose of having that credit to his name to compare with his father's legacy.

2. Do you agree with Eustace that Reepicheep would advocate for going down to Bism?
Not if he knew the circumstances. Jill's mission was to bring Rilian back to Narnia, or die in the attempt; I think Reepicheep would recognize the value of finishing the task Aslan had put before them before seeking their own adventure. I imagine he too would probably long to have gone to the depths and seen them for himself, but he would have his priorities straight. (After all, as wagga pointed out,

3. Rilian blames his pride and fantasy for delaying them at Bism. Do you think pride and fantasy were also motivations for Caspian’s desire to go on at the End of the World? Why or why not?
If this is referring to probably, though I suspect with Caspian, the possibility of getting to Aslan's country was also tempting in and of itself.

4. What most appeals to you about Bism?
Golg's description of the "living gems". That's so fascinating to me! It makes me kind of hope, if it works in the script, that we might perhaps get a scene of Bism in an epilogue so we can see more of that. ;)) (I will understand if they don't, and perhaps it would make leaving Bism behind more powerful to have had heard such a glowing (pardon the pun ;) ) description but never get to see it.)

5. Would you be interested in visiting Bism?
Well... the heat seems like it'd be a bit much for me. ;)) Interesting how it's never really addressed whether or not humans would even be able to survive down there - I wonder if that's why Aslan didn't give them an opportunity to go? Again, though, that image of the gems that you can eat and drink.... I certainly want to see it, though I'm not sure I'd enjoy spending much time there. ;))

6. Discuss how this chapter should be adapted. (ex. what do you most want to see, what problems do you see, etc.)
I do wonder how they're going to handle the description of Bism. Having Golg describe its wonder works in a book, but not so much in a movie. But since the characters never get to go down there, we kind of need that description. I just hope they don't just cut it out entirely - that would be a complete shame. :(

N-Web sis of stardf, _Rillian_, & jerenda
Proud to be Sirya the Madcap Siren

Posted : July 25, 2017 12:10 pm
waggawerewolf27
(@waggawerewolf27)
Member Hospitality Committee

4. What most appeals to you about Bism?

Golg's description of the "living gems". That's so fascinating to me! It makes me kind of hope, if it works in the script, that we might perhaps get a scene of Bism in an epilogue so we can see more of that

Just like Ryadian, above, how could I pass Golg's description of the gems. ? Especially as such gems are so valued in real life. So much so, that gems often inspire the names of paints, car ducos, companies, and much else. There used to be a series of flavoured lip balms at our chemist, just for little girls. And old girls like myself, I guess. They came in varieties, like Ruby Raspberry, Spearmint Sapphire or Emerald Menthol, not to mention Topaz Toffee. Or something of the sort. When I tried them at the time, I did think about Golg, his living gems and his treating Rilian to a taste of Ruby juice. :D

Shastatwin's comment about the "sheer otherness of Bism" is also fascinating - a "Really Deep Land, a thousand fathoms under us." Also Golg's description of "real gold, real silver, real diamonds". Is that what was significant about the Silver Chair? That it was made of "dead silver"? That what LOTGK was offering Prince Rilian, along with her hand in marriage, was a dead throne, a dead kingdom and cold, dead treasures, bought with his mother's blood?

5. Would you be interested in visiting Bism?

It would be interesting to view from a height, but no. Jill, of course, disliked being underground, but even Eustace seemed not put off by the height of the chasm that had opened. Given that the chasm was about to close, how would anyone get away from Bism, once their visit was at an end? Again we see that triad of responses to events from each of our travellers, mentioned in previous chapters. Jill dreads the mere idea of going to Bism, whatever its attractions. Eustace is half inclined to go adventuring along with Prince Rilian, whilst Puddleglum is the voice of reason. It is why I see him as a true hero.

6. Discuss how this chapter should be adapted. (ex. what do you most want to see, what problems do you see, etc.)

The main problem for this chapter is how much of it will be in the movie at all, if the script allows. Will Golg be allowed any sort of explanation of who the gnomes were? Let alone the marvellously inventive stained glass picture of the living gems? Or Rilian's temptation? Or the jubilation of the earthmen that they are finally released from their service to the Queen of the Underworld.

For even if briefly, that is what it would be nice to see, whilst hearing Golg's explanations, perhaps, even as they farewell Golg, amid a voiceover of the chasm closing.

Posted : July 28, 2017 7:52 pm
Hwinning
(@hwinning)
NarniaWeb Regular

5. Would you be interested in visiting Bism?
I would be interested in visiting, but I want to come back up eventually and there doesn't see like a way back up.

6. Discuss how this chapter should be adapted. (ex. what do you most want to see, what problems do you see, etc.)

In the last chapter, they capture one gnome alone. Instead of this, I kind of want them to capture one and then find themselves surrounded by 100 gnomes. Then, when the gnomes find out the questers are friends, they carry/crowd surf them on their shoulders whilst singing about how great Bism is, dancing, doing cartwheels, etc. Jill, Eustace, Puddleglum, and Rilian are all super confused, but they don't feel threatened or scared. Then, as they get closer to Bism, they see gnomes jumping into this chasm (they can't see Bism yet because its blocked by gnomes and they're partially laying down because they're kind of crowd surfing). Now, the questers panic (FOR A MOMENT) are they going to be thrown into a fire/chasm/that thing???They find themselves back on their feet and

Oh

It's Bism. It's beautiful. The sounds all around them get all muffled and all they can hear is their heartbeat, etc. You can faintly hear gnomes laughing as they jump in.

Suddenly, the cavern shakes and small pieces of rock fall down. Everyone feels that it is going to be only minutes until the entire Underworld comes crashing down. Scores of gnomes are jumping in at the same time now. Rilian's looking down still and the others are begging for him to go, pulling on his sleeve, the works.

Finally they go and make a very narrow escape from the Underworld.

I don't expect the Bism scene to take very long. I expect the escape from the Underworld to be very dramatic and "commercial".

Posted : August 15, 2017 6:08 am
narnia fan 7
(@narnia-fan-7)
NarniaWeb Guru

6. Discuss how this chapter should be adapted. (ex. what do you most want to see, what problems do you see, etc.)

I think it's very likely that Bism will be cut from the film, or at least the part were the travelers stop at the edge and Rilian considers going there. I don't think they can cut it out completely, I mean the genomes have to go somewhere. I could see the filmmakers thinking it make Rilian look a little dumb wanting to stay behind after having just been freed.

I think this is probably example of something that works in a book, but may not work in a film, but if they could find a to make it work that'd be great!

Posted : February 17, 2018 11:31 am
Valiant_Nymph
(@valiant_nymph)
NarniaWeb Junkie

1. What does it say about Prince Rilian that he wants to go down into Bism?
I think that he is curious and adventurous, but also a bit unfocused.

2. Do you agree with Eustace that Reepicheep would advocate for going down to Bism?
Yes, considering how he reacts to whether they should go to Dark Island and the end of the world

4. What most appeals to you about Bism?
The description of 'living jewels' that you can eat like berries always stuck with me. I just think that is so fantastical and different from anything I could have imagined that I'd love to see it.

5. Would you be interested in visiting Bism?
Yes, but I wonder if in that moment I wouldn't prefer to get back above ground.

Avatar by Rose Tree Dryad

Posted : May 8, 2018 11:06 am
Movie Aristotle
(@risto)
NarniaWeb Junkie

1. What does it say about Prince Rilian that he wants to go down into Bism?

That he has a sense of wanderlust. He grew up on stories of his father sailing to the end of the world and finding his mother there. I'm sure he was ready for adventures in the friendly land of Bism.

2. Do you agree with Eustace that Reepicheep would advocate for going down to Bism?

Good question. I took Eustace at his word, but Reepicheed is shrewd. He might feel that what is most important is to get Rillian home.

3. Rilian blames his pride and fantasy for delaying them at Bism. Do you think pride and fantasy were also motivations for Caspian’s desire to go on at the End of the World? Why or why not?

Caspian had pride and also stubbornness, but I think his desire was not necessarily a bad one in itself. It was just the wrong timing for the fulfillment of this desire. Caspian ignored his duty to Narnia and instead focused on achieving his desire immediately.

4. What most appeals to you about Bism?

The living jewels most appeal to me, but it is the salamanders and rivers that make the biggest impression.

5. Would you be interested in visiting Bism?

Yes, if there was a guarantee that I could get back.

Movie Aristotle, AKA Risto

Posted : January 26, 2020 3:06 pm
TheLukeskywalker2
(@thelukeskywalker2)
NarniaWeb Regular

1. What does it say about Prince Rilian that he wants to go down into Bism?

He's curious about the underworld that he has been trapped in for years. 

2. Do you agree with Eustace that Reepicheep would advocate for going down to Bism?

He certainly would. No doubt in my mind on that one. 

4. What most appeals to you about Bism?

How it is completely different than anything else we have seen in the Underworld.

5. Would you be interested in visiting Bism?

Sure. I'd be willing to visit any location from Narnia (except Deathwater).

Posted : May 22, 2020 7:21 am
Pattertwigs Pal
(@twigs)
Member Moderator

1. What does it say about Prince Rilian that he wants to go down into Bism?
He has the spirit of an adventurer.
2. Do you agree with Eustace that Reepicheep would advocate for going down to Bism?
No, I think Reepicheep would keep focused on the mission. He never forgot the 7 Lords in VDT.
3. Rilian blames his pride and fantasy for delaying them at Bism. Do you think pride and fantasy were also motivations for Caspian’s desire to go on at the End of the World? Why or why not?
Yes. I think pride would have someone forgot his duty. And he was fantasizing about what would be there.
4. What most appeals to you about Bism?
Diamond juice
5. Would you be interested in visiting Bism?
Only if there were a safe way to get down (Not climbing down rocks. Stairs or something) and a way to get back.


NW sister to Movie Aristotle & daughter of the King

Topic starter Posted : June 2, 2020 1:54 pm
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