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Chapter 3 - The Dwarf

Pattertwigs Pal
(@twigs)
Member Moderator

1. Who do you think came up with the story of ghosts in the woods along the shore?

2. Why were the Telmarines more frightened of the possibility of ghosts than Trumpkin?

3. Do you think Lucy and Edmund would have been able to swim across the channel?

4. Susan warned against the possibility of dangerous currents; however, she apparently did not object to going into the water with Peter to catch the boat. Why do you think this is?


NW sister to Movie Aristotle & daughter of the King

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Topic starter Posted : October 21, 2014 7:52 am
Ryadian
(@rya)
Member Moderator

1. Who do you think came up with the story of ghosts in the woods along the shore?
Note, these theories ARE relying, in part, on my knowledge of the rest of the story. Fair warning.

When I was younger, I assumed that the stories of "ghosts" were really just Telmarine interpretations of dryads (and potentially other woodland creatures) who may have still been awake the last time the were in this area of Narnia. Being a fearful lot and not liking the old Narnians, they assumed they were ghosts and avoided it at all costs. Simultaneously, perhaps they realized that Cair Paravel had special meaning for the Old Narnians, and decided to convince them to stay away by claiming that there "ghosts" haunting the area. Finally, I think a possibility that the rebellion actually initiated the rumors, possibly to protect Cair Paravel and what it represents. However, over time, even the Old Narnians themselves began to forget that they told the stories, and forget what was really down that way--in the same way that they forgot the children, and Aslan himself.

2. Why were the Telmarines more frightened of the possibility of ghosts than Trumpkin?
As the book says, dwarves may sometimes be bad, but they're not foolish. He seems to believe vaguely in the idea of ghosts, but he doesn't take it that seriously. Besides that, it seems to take a lot to get him down--he was just nearly executed by drowning, and he's awfully chipper and even joking. It seems that he would likely, under normal circumstances, keep his distance from these woods, but now that he's here, he mind as well get used to the idea.

3. Do you think Lucy and Edmund would have been able to swim across the channel?
Again, this is a hard question to answer without getting into knowledge from later in the books.

Well, for one thing, we'd need to know if Lucy and Edmund were capable of that much swimming even as King and Queen of Narnia. Given that they could see the shore on the other side, I would say probably so, though Susan of course also warned about the currents. Though, given that later in the story

Spoiler
their old skills do begin returning, if they'd chosen to try swimming, I have a feeling that would have come back to them
.

4. Susan warned against the possibility of dangerous currents; however, she apparently did not object to going into the water with Peter to catch the boat. Why do you think this is?
I actually just noticed this myself when I read the chapter. ;)) I think it's because before, they were discussing it as a hypothetical solution, and Susan pointed that out so they could more properly weigh their options. However, when Trumpkin was in the boat, there was a good reason to go into the water--there was a dwarf to rescue before the boat drifted away! Under the circumstances, caution could be thrown to the wind. Besides, they'd also just watched men in armor fall out of the boat them swim to the other shore. If they could do it, then Peter and Susan could probably reach the boat without too much concern.

On an unrelated note, I find it interesting how Trumpkin basically "takes over", in a sense, after his arrival. He's the one who invites himself to breakfast (then changes his mind and invites them to breakfast so they can have fish), he's also the one who points out that they should hide the boat (something Peter acknowledges he should've thought of himself), and he's the one who has concerns about Susan's decision to not kill the soldiers and instead merely scare them away. And, thus far, none of the children have really objected to it. Just something I noticed when reading through the book this time.

N-Web sis of stardf, _Rillian_, & jerenda
Proud to be Sirya the Madcap Siren

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Posted : October 21, 2014 8:42 am
aileth
(@aileth)
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1. Who do you think came up with the story of ghosts in the woods along the shore?
As to who started it, it's hard to tell. I get the impression that Trumpkin's lot wouldn't have had much truck with the enemy, so both factions must have had some sort of tradition. The Telmarines to frighten naughty children, and the Narnians to keep alive some form of hope?

2. Why were the Telmarines more frightened of the possibility of ghosts than Trumpkin?
Guilty consciences? They seemed to believe it to be true, where Trumpkin had a healthy dose of skepticism -- about a number of things, really, including He kept on referring to ghosts, but he didn't act petrified by the thought. Besides, whatever the potential ghosts could have done to him, it was no worse than what the Telmarines were certain to do.

3. Do you think Lucy and Edmund would have been able to swim across the channel?
I think if it had been necessary they would have tried, and probably made it, too. After all, you can't have the main characters drowning -- at least, not right away. Which poses another question: did they lose all their acquired skills when they returned to England, and if so, why?

4. Susan warned against the possibility of dangerous currents; however, she apparently did not object to going into the water with Peter to catch the boat. Why do you think this is?
The most obvious thing is that she could see that the soldiers had made it out, therefore it must not be dangerous and she herself could swim. She may have been overly cautious at times, but when the need for action arose, she would leave her concerns behind and plunge in (in this case, literally.) She was reluctant to shoot at these soldiers, but it didn't stop her from doing what was needed. Then, too, they were much better off with the boat; it saved having to find out whether Edmund and Lucy were able to swim across to the mainland.

Now my days are swifter than a post: they flee away ... my days are swifter than a weaver's shuttle

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Posted : October 21, 2014 7:43 pm
waggawerewolf27
(@waggawerewolf27)
Member Hospitality Committee

I need to catch up on this reading group, don't I?

1. Who do you think came up with the story of ghosts in the woods along the shore?

I'm inclined to agree with Ryadian, who at first took "the ghosts" story as a reference to the dryads. They at least must have had power to resist the Telmarines, and to make them feel unwelcome. The reason why I thought it might be a reference to the dryads is because of the apple orchard growing amok in the previous 2 chapters of Prince Caspian, almost like a protective mantle about Cair Paravel. Had the Telmarines penetrated so far as the castle, itself, they would have enjoyed the apples no doubt. But I still would have liked to know how the castle got ruined. Was it actually invading Telmarines or was it perhaps the trees, themselves, encasing it?

2. Why were the Telmarines more frightened of the possibility of ghosts than Trumpkin?
Very likely because Trumpkin would know that whatever the ghosts were, they were likely to be on his side as "old Narnians". Or is that too far a leap ahead? But I also think that right from the start, Trumpkin is being established as intelligent, no-nonsense, and inclined to be one of those sceptical sorts of people, but in a good way.

3. Do you think Lucy and Edmund would have been able to swim across the channel?

Very likely. As they said, in their previous stay in Narnia, they were able to swim and do all sorts of things. They had the memory of that time. Also, although they reverted back to being children in the real world, they had apparently been working hard at swimming during the year after their return.

4. Susan warned against the possibility of dangerous currents; however, she apparently did not object to going into the water with Peter to catch the boat. Why do you think this is?

Did Susan feel unsettled by this return to Narnia? Is she trying to reassert her authority over siblings that may not need it any more? What about her own ability to meet new challenges? As has been pointed out, the soldiers had no difficulty in escaping by swimming, so she, at least, who had won prizes at school for swimming, should have been able to do it. And the dwarf gave her a reason to respond urgently.

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Posted : November 19, 2014 8:40 am
Pattertwigs Pal
(@twigs)
Member Moderator

1. Who do you think came up with the story of ghosts in the woods along the shore?
I would guess the Telmarines. It doesn't seem like something the Narnians would come up with - unless there really were ghosts and we have no evidence that that is the case.

2. Why were the Telmarines more frightened of the possibility of ghosts than Trumpkin?
Well, if the stories started among them they are probably told more and believed more than among the old Narnians.

Spoiler
As we learn later Trumpkin believes in things he has seen with his own eyes so since he hasn't seen ghosts he wouldn't be as inclined to believe in them.

3. Do you think Lucy and Edmund would have been able to swim across the channel?
They are back in Narnia so it is likely they would have been able to. However, they also have not been in Narnia very long.
4. Susan warned against the possibility of dangerous currents; however, she apparently did not object to going into the water with Peter to catch the boat. Why do you think this is?
Well, they saw how the soldiers were able to get to the shore. Also, she probably just did what was necessary without thinking of the risks.

On an unrelated note, I find it interesting how Trumpkin basically "takes over", in a sense, after his arrival. He's the one who invites himself to breakfast (then changes his mind and invites them to breakfast so they can have fish), he's also the one who points out that they should hide the boat (something Peter acknowledges he should've thought of himself), and he's the one who has concerns about Susan's decision to not kill the soldiers and instead merely scare them away. And, thus far, none of the children have really objected to it. Just something I noticed when reading through the book this time.

He does. It seems Peter has not quite gotten back into a leadership role and/or the children are expecting Narnia to be safe like it was in their time. They are not on their guard.


NW sister to Movie Aristotle & daughter of the King

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Topic starter Posted : May 23, 2015 9:03 am
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