Posted by: @icarus

If Narnia is to make it to a full 7 seasons on Netflix to cover all 7 books, it will quite literally have to become the single most successful show that Netflix has ever produced.

Yes there have been a couple of Netflix Originals that have managed to run for 7 or more seasons (and it is literally just the handful of shows that ever have achieved this milestone) but these were all produced during the very earliest days of Netflix when the creative reins were much looser, and none of them were the sorts of "high-concept / high cost", property like Narnia.

I'm not saying we should all compromise our personal opinions just in the hope that we might get to see 7 books adapted badly, I just think it's worth remembering that the road to continued success on Netflix is going to be much much harder than it was at Disney.

This is spot-on exactly why I'm still sceptical that Netflix could complete a full Narnia series (all 7 books) at all, let alone do it in a way that the majority of fans of the original books will be happy with. And while I know some would rather have "7 books adapted badly" than nothing at all, I'm the opposite — I'd much rather have nothing at all than even one book adapted badly!!  

With all we've seen and heard about Netflix in recent years, I just wish they might give it up and let their rights to Narnia expire — and then I wish Narnia might be taken up by a not-so-big-name company that had the vision (and the money) to do Narnia justice. I'm thinking of the LOTR trilogy — I'm pretty sure Peter Jackson and New Line Cinema were almost unknown names when they started (I certainly hadn't heard of them before the first film came out). Yet they managed to produce a film trilogy that even a stickler like me found utterly brilliant. (I don't at all agree with what he then went and did to The Hobbit, but that's another matter!!) So it's definitely possible to turn a fantasy classic into a screen adaptation of real calibre, but it takes the right people to do it, and I'm less and less convinced that Netflix are the ones...  

One of the things I enjoy about the books is that I can read them again and it still feels new.  I will notice something I had not noticed before or a new emotion or feeling will move in me.

My hope in any video adaptation is the it evokes a similar enjoyment as well - that I can watch it over and over and it never gets old. 

The only way it is successful is if it is faithful to the complex themes in the books. I am all for adaption, but there are ideas that cannot just be thrown away for the sake of making it look cool. I also think they need to work on creating character arcs for the characters and adding those themes into those arcs. Though, i still think about this as a tv show and it has seemed likely for awhile that they are going to be short hour and a half throw away movies, so they aren't going to do what they need to do.

I actually think people like complicated stories more than boring stories too. Or at least there is an audience for that as well as for popcorn shows. If they are just making a cheesy popcorn movie to make money with then it is not going to be good. That is the problem with VDT and with PC with the kiss. Don't do stuff like that. This is Netflix though. They do a couple seasons and then throw a thing away like Disney. I think we all need to be very prepared for that.

Which i understand is why people want them to do MN first, but save us all from that.

Posted by: @courtenay

 

And while I know some would rather have "7 books adapted badly" than nothing at all, I'm the opposite — I'd much rather have nothing at all than even one book adapted badly!!

 

Posted by: @decarus

The only way it is successful is if it is faithful to the complex themes in the books. I am all for adaption, but there are ideas that cannot just be thrown away for the sake of making it look cool. I also think they need to work on creating character arcs for the characters and adding those themes into those arcs. Though, i still think about this as a tv show and it has seemed likely for awhile that they are going to be short hour and a half throw away movies, so they aren't going to do what they need to do.

I would love to see a character arch of Emeth in The Last Battle, even give him a bigger role. You could even make him sympathetic, and finding out that Rishda doesn't believe in Tash.

Posted by: @decarus

I actually think people like complicated stories more than boring stories too. Or at least there is an audience for that as well as for popcorn shows. If they are just making a cheesy popcorn movie to make money with then it is not going to be good. That is the problem with VDT and with PC with the kiss. Don't do stuff like that. This is Netflix though. They do a couple seasons and then throw a thing away like Disney. I think we all need to be very prepared for that.

The kiss at the end of Walden's Prince Caspian was crossing the line. It would work better between Caspian and Ramandu's daughter at the end of Voyage of the Dawn Treader (that's just a personal opinion, though). Romance is the market profitability, though it doesn't have to be. The deep friendship between Tirian and Jewel is one of the most crucial relationships in the series. It would be like what Peter Jackson did with Frodo and Sam in Lord of the Rings trilogy. We would even see the total contrast of friendship between Tirian and Jewel and Shift and Puzzle.

The Green Mist was the last straw in Voyage of the Dawn Treader. It was not even a good villain! Not every story has to have a villain to make it a cliche Disney or even superhero. And please no White Witch in every Narnia movie! We've had enough of that in the Walden trilogy. A great villainess in The Lion, Witch, and the Wardrobe. I kind of saw what they were trying to do with her in Prince Caspian. Then they had to squeeze her in Voyage of the Dawn Treader. If Netflix or whatever company decides to cast the same actress as the White Witch and the Lady of the Green Kirtle (to make them the same person), I would totally flip out! Even in The Last Battle, they better not do the White Witch instead of Tash. They better be not be all like, "Oh, Rishda called on the White Witch" or something dumb like that!

So all that I mention are what Netflix needs to do to be successful.

@jasmine_tarkheena 

The green mist was terrible in VDT. The undragoning was the absolute worst as was the way Eustace saved everyone and earned his undragoning at the end of the movie. Talk about completely missing the very important point of that part of the story. Those are the things they just can't ruin and pretend that it is fine. Such a bad movie. It just was not Narnia. It was something else.

They just have to really dumb it all down and streamline it to make a hour and a half to two hour movie. That is why i really think like an 8 episode or so season makes so much more sense to me.

Posted by: @decarus

The green mist was terrible in VDT. The undragoning was the absolute worst as was the way Eustace saved everyone and earned his undragoning at the end of the movie. Talk about completely missing the very important point of that part of the story. Those are the things they just can't ruin and pretend that it is fine. Such a bad movie. It just was not Narnia. It was something else.

The green mist was a terrible mistake, yes. It would be a terrible mistake if they brought back the green mist in The Silver Chair, given that it was a set up for The Lady of the Green Kirtle. No need to see green smoke on the screen to let us know that the main characters are making a bad decision.

It would also be a terrible thing if they add the green mist in The Last Battle. I mean, when Tash is coming into Narnia, and he's surrounded by green mist. And I humbly pray that doesn't happened! Having to tie the green mist with the Lady of the Green Kirtle was bad enough! No need to tie the green mist with Tash!

Posted by: @decarus

They just have to really dumb it all down and streamline it to make a hour and a half to two hour movie. That is why i really think like an 8 episode or so season makes so much more sense to me.

An episodic series is more idea. Though I think the door is still wide open. I'd be open to either a movie or an episodic series. Though I'm in the bit of skepticism. I'm just waiting to see what happens. Even if the product doesn't turn out as I anticipated, hey, what else could I do?

Posted by: @decarus

The only way it is successful is if it is faithful to the complex themes in the books. I am all for adaption, but there are ideas that cannot just be thrown away for the sake of making it look cool. I also think they need to work on creating character arcs for the characters and adding those themes into those arcs. Though, i still think about this as a tv show and it has seemed likely for awhile that they are going to be short hour and a half throw away movies, so they aren't going to do what they need to do.

Yes, that's another thing I've been thinking too. I can't see how any film-makers could do Narnia justice unless they make each story into a series with several episodes, rather than a movie. Even though these are "children's books" and they're not all that lengthy on paper (much shorter than even the earlier Harry Potter books, let alone the later ones!), they are still deep and complex and thought-provoking and they all have plots and characters that deserve a gradual unfoldment.

We have of course seen this before in the BBC series — 6 half-hour episodes for LWW, 2 episodes for PC, 4 for VDT and 6 for SC. Although those adaptations all had their shortcomings (a lot of which stemmed from budget constraints), I would say the two where they took 6 episodes for each book were easily the best done, when it comes to pacing of the story and faithfulness to the original books. Prince Caspian, despite it being the longest of the books, was crammed into a total of one hour and viewers who weren't familiar with the story would barely have got a sense of what was happening before being thrown into the next adventure through that picture frame. Dawn Treader was done a bit better, with two hours' total viewing time, but it could have been better still as another 6-parter.

(I don't know why the Beeb chose to compress two of the stories like that; possibly financial reasons again. They were quite notorious in those days for having very little money to spend on children's programming — which also included Doctor Who — but still turning out shows that kept the fans coming back for more, even if we couldn't stop laughing at the terrible costumes and really-not-so-special effects...   As I've said before, if you younger viewers reckon the BBC Narnia serials look hilariously hokey now, trust me, they looked hilariously hokey in 1989!!)

As for the Green Mist, I'm guessing (or at least hoping) no future adaptation of VDT will include that at all. It was purely an invention of Walden and, going by every reaction I've ever heard, was an incredibly stupid move. It's not in the book at all, or even hinted at in any way, so I don't see why a new studio, trying to do a new and fresh version of Narnia, would even think of taking up a subplot that was cooked up entirely by a previous film-maker and was one of the reasons that particular movie bombed badly. (So badly, in fact, that they ended up never making the next instalment.)

Posted by: @decarus

This is Netflix though. They do a couple seasons and then throw a thing away like Disney. I think we all need to be very prepared for that.

Again, that's another reason why I'd really rather see Netflix drop the idea and have it taken up by a smaller studio that definitely has the vision and commitment to do all 7 books and do them well. But I'm not holding my breath for that...

Posted by: @courtenay

Yes, that's another thing I've been thinking too. I can't see how any film-makers could do Narnia justice unless they make each story into a series with several episodes, rather than a movie. Even though these are "children's books" and they're not all that lengthy on paper (much shorter than even the earlier Harry Potter books, let alone the later ones!), they are still deep and complex and thought-provoking and they all have plots and characters that deserve a gradual unfoldment.

A series is still a thought. There's still other ways to fill in the gap (if ever needed to). In The Silver Chair, we could see Prince Rilian's shock and grief after his mother's death.

Posted by: @courtenay

We have of course seen this before in the BBC series — 6 half-hour episodes for LWW, 2 episodes for PC, 4 for VDT and 6 for SC. Although those adaptations all had their shortcomings (a lot of which stemmed from budget constraints), I would say the two where they took 6 episodes for each book were easily the best done, when it comes to pacing of the story and faithfulness to the original books. Prince Caspian, despite it being the longest of the books, was crammed into a total of one hour and viewers who weren't familiar with the story would barely have got a sense of what was happening before being thrown into the next adventure through that picture frame. Dawn Treader was done a bit better, with two hours' total viewing time, but it could have been better still as another 6-parter.

The BBC are not any better than the Walden, at least I don't think. But they are good enough to keep me entertained. There were times that where it got a little too slow and other times it got it a little too rush.

If I remember correctly, both BBC and Walden had originally thought about possibly skipping Prince Caspian. Well, I'm grateful they didn't, and I'm kind of hoping the next adaption won't either.

Posted by: @courtenay

(I don't know why the Beeb chose to compress two of the stories like that; possibly financial reasons again. They were quite notorious in those days for having very little money to spend on children's programming — which also included Doctor Who — but still turning out shows that kept the fans coming back for more, even if we couldn't stop laughing at the terrible costumes and really-not-so-special effects...   As I've said before, if you younger viewers reckon the BBC Narnia serials look hilariously hokey now, trust me, they looked hilariously hokey in 1989!!)

Now imagine a TV series with The Lion, The Witch, And The Wardrobe and The Horse And His Boy together. I mean, The Horse And His Boy takes place during the golden age, and the Pevensies are still in Narnia, so why shouldn't they?

Posted by: @courtenay

As for the Green Mist, I'm guessing (or at least hoping) no future adaptation of VDT will include that at all. It was purely an invention of Walden and, going by every reaction I've ever heard, was an incredibly stupid move. It's not in the book at all, or even hinted at in any way, so I don't see why a new studio, trying to do a new and fresh version of Narnia, would even think of taking up a subplot that was cooked up entirely by a previous film-maker and was one of the reasons that particular movie bombed badly. (So badly, in fact, that they ended up never making the next instalment.)

Out of all the three Walden movies, Voyage of the Dawn Treader is the one that I have the most mixed feelings about. Oh, I do kind of have mixed feelings about the first two, just more mixed feelings about Voyage of the Dawn Treader. There's still things impressive about it, like the way they did the transition and the design of the Dawn Treader. Even the Pauline Baynes illustrations at the end credits was a nice touch to it. Yet again, while I wouldn't say it's a terrible movie, it's the one I have the most mixed feelings about.

Then of course, I think we were all kind of worried that they were going to cast Tilda Swinton as The Lady of the Green Kirtle in The Silver Chair, like when BBC cast Barbara Kellerman as The White Witch and the Lady of the Green Kirtle (for budgetary reason, I think.) The next adaption better not cast the same actress to play both villainesses! It would be like if they cast the same actor to play Prince Rabadash in The Horse And His Boy and Rishda Tarkaan in The Last Battle (which I certainly don't want either! I've said it before and I still stand by it!) No two characters can be the same person!

Posted by: @courtenay

Again, that's another reason why I'd really rather see Netflix drop the idea and have it taken up by a smaller studio that definitely has the vision and commitment to do all 7 books and do them well. But I'm not holding my breath for that...

I don't think any of us should hold our breaths. I'm just waiting to see what happens. Any company could do Narnia, like Apple or Amazon. A smaller company would be nice for a change, though. Imagine if the first Narnia movie was a Fathom event at the theatre (where it would be in the theatre for 3 days or so, and if it performs well, it could go longer).

@courtenay Yeah, agreed. Each book having like 8 episodes around 30 minutes each sounds great to me. They could do a lot there and really focus on the important parts of each of the books without having too long episodes that drag out.

PS. I watched the BBC versions back in the 80s and they are great. That is what things were like back then and really shows still have trouble with their cgi and their high def streaming which also causes issues.

@jasmine_tarkheena I think the idea of putting LWW and HHB together makes sense to me. Moving the Pevensies returning to England to after HHB. Then they could do PC, VDT, and SC as a trilogy and then do MN and LB as a pair. I still wish for tv shows, but i think that makes the most sense if they have to mess with the order.

Posted by: @decarus

@jasmine_tarkheena I think the idea of putting LWW and HHB together makes sense to me. Moving the Pevensies returning to England to after HHB. Then they could do PC, VDT, and SC as a trilogy and then do MN and LB as a pair. I still wish for tv shows, but i think that makes the most sense if they have to mess with the order.

I actually haven't thought of that.

Prince Caspian, Voyage of the Dawn Treader, and The Silver Chair as a trilogy kind of makes sense. All of these stories feature Caspian, and they could bring back the same actor (counting the end of The Silver Chair when he is resurrected in Aslan's country.) Maybe they could call it "The Caspian Trilogy."

I would have never thought of The Magician's Nephew and The Last Battle being done as a pair though. If it is a series, I just hope they don't rush either of them like BBC did with Prince Caspian and Voyage of the Dawn Treader.