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Wardrobe Fatigue?

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Glumpuddle
(@gp)
News Poster, Podcast Producer

In the latest podcast episode, we discuss whether Netflix should begin their Narnia adaptations with yet another version of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. With the books, I am pro-publication order all the way. And Walden Media starting with LWW was a no-brainer. But with Netflix at this point in time... I'm not sure.

When asked about starting with LWW, most NarniaWebbers seem to fall into one of these camps:

 

#1 Yes. LWW is the only right way to start the story. Period.

#2 Yes. It's by far the most popular book, and therefore the best business decision.

#3. Yes. The 2005 movie is so beloved. Therefore another version will attract the most interest.*

#4 No. The 2005 movie is so beloved. A redo is too risky.*

#5 No. LWW has been done many times before (radio, animated movie, live-action series, feature film). Start with something fresh--maybe The Magician's Nephew.

#6 No. I really want to see all 7 books get made into movies. If they go the publication order route yet again, the plug might get pulled early again, leaving much of the series unfilmed. Start with MN, a book that has not yet been filmed.

 

* Note the contradiction between #3 and #4. Some see the success of the 2005 LWW as a good thing for Netflix, while others see it as a challenge. And others believe the 2005 LWW has been largely forgotten by general audiences, and therefore is not a factor.

This topic was modified 1 year ago 2 times by Glumpuddle


YouTube.com/gpuddle | Twitter.com/glumpuddle

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Topic starter Posted : March 7, 2023 12:54 pm
icarus
(@icarus)
NarniaWeb Guru

I've slowly come around to being an option 6 person myself.

At heart I'm a Publication Order purist, but I also know how unlikely it is for the trigger-happy executives at Netflix to make seven seasons of anything, therefore I'll gladly take a guaranteed Magicians Nephew as the proverbial "Bird in the Hand".

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Posted : March 7, 2023 1:03 pm
Col Klink
(@col-klink)
NarniaWeb Junkie

I'm going to leave this in a comment on the podcast episode, but I might as well write it here first. A factor to consider that the episode, despite its thoroughness, didn't get into is the effect on newcomers to the books. If they start with The Magician's Nephew, that, coupled with the numbers on the spines, will definitely lead to people reading that one first. I'm tempted to vote for doing The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe first solely based on that even though I am, truth be told, probably a little wardrobe fatigued. 

For better or worse-for who knows what may unfold from a chrysalis?-hope was left behind.
-The God Beneath the Sea by Leon Garfield & Edward Blishen check out my new blog!

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Posted : March 7, 2023 2:10 pm
Courtenay liked
Jasmine
(@jasmine_tarkheena)
NarniaWeb Guru

Oh, did this just got interesting?

I might lean towards #6. The Magician's Nephew might give us a fresh start. Even if it is done badly (which I kind of hoping not), I think I'd rather have that than no adaption at all.

It would be like if a new LOTR adaption did The Hobbit first, given that it was the first book to be published (though the Peter Jackson adapted the Lord of the Rings trilogy first, then went on to adapt The Hobbit).

So imagine a trailer for The Magician's Nephew- "How it all begun" or something like that.

"And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me beloved."
(Emeth, The Last Battle)
https://escapetoreality.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/aslan-and-emeth2.jpg

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Posted : March 7, 2023 2:56 pm
decarus
(@decarus)
NarniaWeb Junkie

I am never going to have any fatigue of anything new Narnia. I like the Walden movies, especially the first two, but they aren't like the best thing i have ever seen and they weren't the first Narnia movies. I watched the BBC ones a bunch of times in the 80s when people rented vhs tapes from the library. I am more than ready for them to move on and try again.

There are no clouds in the sky. There is only the open sun and the Lord watches.

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Posted : March 7, 2023 6:41 pm
coracle
(@coracle)
NarniaWeb's Auntie Moderator

@decarus  I love your positive statement!

I got to see the BBC's first screening of The Lion The Witch And The Wardrobe in November 1988, as I was living in London at the time. My hostess videoed the series and gave me a copy. I remember that there was one of those transmission breakdowns that used to happen in those days, right in the middle of Episode One.  The announcer came on and ad-libbed something about there being a real mystery in the story!

Did you see it that year too? PC/VDT came out in 1989, and SC in 1990. I've had poorly recorded videos of these two as well, and was glad to get the DVD box set eventually.

 

 

There, shining in the sunrise, larger than they had seen him before, shaking his mane (for it had apparently grown again) stood Aslan himself.
"...when a willing victim who had committed no treachery was killed in a traitor's stead, the Table would crack and Death itself would start working backwards."

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Posted : March 8, 2023 1:34 am
Courtenay
(@courtenay)
NarniaWeb Fanatic Hospitality Committee

I'm not absolutely sure where I stand on this — all the arguments listed by @gp have their validity, depending on one's own feelings, after all! Silly  

When it comes to reading the books, I'm heavily on the side of publication order, or at least for reading LWW before MN. And despite it now being supposedly second in the series, LWW is by far the most famous of the Narnia books and the "flagship" of the Chronicles, so to speak. It's no accident that every previous attempt at making a Narnia screen adaptation, whether or not it turned into an extended series, has begun with LWW.

On the other hand, it can easily be argued that for that reason, LWW is overdone and the next adaptation ought to start with something that hasn't been done before. The Magician's Nephew is one of the deepest and most breathtakingly creative of the Chronicles and isn't nearly as widely known as it should be, despite now supposedly being first in the series! You ask the average person on the street to describe a scene from "Narnia" and they'll very likely say something about a little girl walking into a wardrobe and finding herself in a snowy wood with a lamppost and a Faun who invites her to tea, or a White Witch in a sleigh (Narnia pedant here is wincing — in the book it is always described as a sledge Eyeroll ), or just maybe something about that-lion-who's-supposed-to-be-Jesus dying and coming back to life. You're much less likely to get someone talking of creepy Uncle Andrew and his magic rings, or the Wood between the Worlds, or the dead land of Charn and the queen who destroyed it with one word, or Aslan singing an amazing new world into life...

But then, does all that mean that LWW is the epitome of Narnia in everyone's minds and starting with the far less familiar MN would be too unsettling for viewers? Or does it mean that LWW is overplayed and starting with MN would be far more exciting? That's entirely a matter of opinion, either way... No idea  

Although I don't have an absolute favourite among the Chronicles, I do believe MN has some of Lewis's best writing in the whole series and perhaps the most original and exciting ideas out of all the books. It deserves to be done on screen, if only it can be done well! But should it be done first? Despite my publication-order stance with the original books, I wouldn't be too put out if the next adaptation starts with MN. It would be a bold and daring move and signal that this new version of Narnia is not going to be the same-old-same-old thing that's been done before.

Also there's a practical consideration I can think of: if MN isn't done first in a series that's intended to encompass all seven books, where abouts should it come, logically? Putting it sixth (as it is in publication order) doesn't make much sense on the face of it — after the first four (LWW, PC, VDT, SC), which are naturally consecutive and each use at least one or two main characters from the preceding book, there's first the rather jarring note of jumping back in time to the four Pevensies' reign with HHB, and then the even bigger shock of jumping further back to the very beginning of Narnia, with no main characters at all that we've met before. (Apart from Jadis — and it isn't obvious she's destined to become the White Witch until later in the story — and, of course, Aslan, neither of whom are "relatable" from the ordinary viewer's standpoint.)

(Edited to add, as I've just realised — duh, and except, of course, for Digory, who grows up to become the Professor in LWW!! But again, in the book itself, we don't find that out till the very end of the story.)

can think of one way they could introduce MN if it comes later in the series. I would love to see an adaptation of all seven books (preferably multiple episodes for each one) in which a running thread develops of the Pevensie children getting in touch with the Professor again and forming the Friends of Narnia. We only learn about them doing that in The Last Battle, but from slight hints in the books, we can guess that this began with Peter, after his second (and last) visit to Narnia in PC, telling the Professor about it when he goes to study with him during the events of VDT. I can imagine having short "flashes" of this in between the main action of some of the stories — first Peter telling the Professor how they got back into Narnia; the Professor saying Peter must bring Susan and Edmund and Lucy to see him again some time; Susan (back from America), when the others tell her about this invitation, going all cold and saying "Oh — what, are you still thinking about all those funny games we used to play as children?"...

My point being that there could be a few of these "making of the Friends" scenes as the series goes on, including one where the Professor introduces the younger ones to his dear friend Miss Plummer, who soon becomes Aunt Polly to them. Then at last, when they're gathered together one day, someone (I can imagine it being Lucy or Jill) asks something like "Professor, couldn't you please tell us the whole story of how you and Aunt Polly actually saw Narnia being created?" Cue the opening of a story set in late Victorian London...

Sorry for going slightly off topic there — my imagination tends to run wild at times with thoughts of how I wish "they" could do the perfect Narnia adaptation if only someone would get around to it!! Grin  

(I have, by the way, deliberately stopped mentioning Netflix specifically. In the wake of one or two tantalising rumours about them recently, we have once again had absolutely nothing confirmed by Netflix themselves and not the slightest indication that they are seriously working on Narnia, even after all these years. I personally now do not believe they are going to do anything with it at all. I'd love to be proved wrong, but I'll believe it when I see it... Not talking )

"Now you are a lioness," said Aslan. "And now all Narnia will be renewed."
(Prince Caspian)

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Posted : March 8, 2023 5:38 am
coracle
(@coracle)
NarniaWeb's Auntie Moderator

@courtenay you and I think very much alike on this. I'd love to hear some rumours of this being planned.

There, shining in the sunrise, larger than they had seen him before, shaking his mane (for it had apparently grown again) stood Aslan himself.
"...when a willing victim who had committed no treachery was killed in a traitor's stead, the Table would crack and Death itself would start working backwards."

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Posted : March 8, 2023 12:41 pm
Jasmine
(@jasmine_tarkheena)
NarniaWeb Guru

I'd be open to The Magician's Nephew being the first one to be adapted in the new series. Though I do think the door is still wide open.

In The Magician's Nephew, we might finally get to see Charn. I could almost envision a dreary atmosphere. Even the Wood between the Worlds is something I have wish to be seen done. A good opportunity for sound design, like a string of music.

An episodic series or movie series from the creation of Narnia in The Magician's Nephew to the ending of Narnia in The Last Battle would count for something.

"And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me beloved."
(Emeth, The Last Battle)
https://escapetoreality.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/aslan-and-emeth2.jpg

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Posted : March 8, 2023 12:51 pm
decarus
(@decarus)
NarniaWeb Junkie

@coracle I didn't see the BBC versions live, but like i said there were vhs tapes of them that we would watch at church or i would borrow from the public library or the library at my school. I loved them. I read the books when i was 8 or so, around third grade, so a few years before those came out, so to see anything like live action of Narnia, i just loved it.

It is like there are two parts of me the kid part that remembers loving just the characters and the talking animals and the action as a kid and now as an adult loving all the deep, theological, like so perfectly on point parts too. I want both from what they do. I will watch whatever they make, I'm all in, but i want both.

PS. The BBC versions are on youtube. Just write in the name of the book and write BBC; they will pop right up.

This post was modified 1 year ago by decarus

There are no clouds in the sky. There is only the open sun and the Lord watches.

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Posted : March 9, 2023 7:00 pm
Courtenay and coracle liked
Narnian78
(@narnian78)
NarniaWeb Guru

I kind of wish someone else like PBS would get the rights to make Narnia for the small screen. Probably PBS has a better reputation for quality since they have offered so much educational programming in the  past.  Since Netflix owns the rights they could probably postpone making Narnia for years. Or perhaps they may not even want to bother with starting the project if it isn’t making much money for them.

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Posted : March 10, 2023 6:02 am
Courtenay liked
Anfinwen
(@anfinwen)
NarniaWeb Nut

Hi all! I just  have been listening to the podcast. Someone mentioned the two movies being directed by Gerwig being LWW and PC because they need to be done together due to the kids ages. It occurred to me how very difficult Narnia is to adapt in the usual shoot-release, shoot-release timeline. Once you start LWW, you're locked on a tight schedule to do PC and VDT. Oh, but in VDT you must cast Eustace, so you must move on to SC. Now you have Jill and need to get to LB. MN is essential to understanding the events of LB. If you want to give yourself the easiest job of handling the young actors aging, it makes sense to do it first so you don't have to pause and do it right before LB.

But here's another thought: movies and series. What if LWW, PC, VDT, and LB are the long running show, and MN/HHB are standalone movies that are filmed simultaneously and don't have to be be constrained to the show's release schedule? for example "HHB, a Narnia Story" gets released not long after the LWW portion of the show airs. MN gets released in the gap between the VDT and LB seasons of the show. 

I feel like Gerwig should probably direct MN and LWW in that order to spring-board the rest of the books, with an additional HHB miniseries released sometime in the future. They just have to be ready to roll with PC plans if the first two are a success so that their kids don't grow up.

Another note, the podcast discussed whether Narnia still lived in the public thought enough to be recognizable and to allow Netflix to start with MN. I say yes, and I hope Netflix is watching the YouTube movie reaction scene. There have been quite a few channels doing first time reactions to Narnia. There's been a good amount of chatter in the comment sections of these videos of how much people love and fondly remember Narnia. And evidently the views and interactions on the first few videos was enough that other reactors picked up on it and followed suit. A lot of these reactors seem to have watched LotR and Harry Potter and went, "Hmm, what's next?" and Narnia was the answer. It's been brought back to the public eye quite a bit recently, perfect timing. So, Netflix, get a move on!

Screen-Shot-2018-10-13-at-1-35-56-PM

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Posted : March 13, 2023 9:08 pm
Impending Doom
(@impending-doom)
Adventurous Stranger Knight of NarniaWeb

I definitely disagree with @Gymfan15 's assesment on the podcast. I was getting ready to type up my response when Rilian started sharing a comment I posted! That was pretty weird experience 😉 

I really do think it makes the most business sense, long-term, for Netflix's Narnia. I've shared in previous threads before so I won't go into it here but just personally, I would prefer MN to LWW as a first entry for Netflix.

Out of the current options, I'm a Option 6. But if I can add another option...

#7 No. It's by far the most popular book, and therefore the best business decision is to not make it first.

"Tollers, there is too little of what we really like in stories. I am afraid we shall have to try and write some ourselves." - C.S. Lewis

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Posted : March 17, 2023 11:21 am
KingEdTheJust
(@kingedthejust)
NarniaWeb Nut

I believe I'm a #5 myself. While I am a fan of the 2005 movie, and the rest of the movies that were produced by Walden, I want to start Narnia off fresh, a new beginning for audiences. If they were to finish off the rest of the films in Narnia, I would want it to be done by the same company or with the same actors. Seeing how that isn't possible, I would prefer Narnia be granted a second chance, almost. MN as a book was published after most of the series was completed, so it wouldn't make sense to start the films off like that. However, an audience member who's never been introduced to Narnia wouldn't know that.  MN as a movie would be the beginning of the Narnia films for them, instead of being introduced through LWW. While LWW was a beloved film (and series when I watched BBC for the first time), I think Narnia should start with something different. Give the audience something they haven't' seen before. Though Narnia has always started traditionally with LWW, if would be cool if they tried something different. Focus more on the origins of Narnia and give the audience members a bit more information about the world, before diving into LWW. It will give audience members if they have a connection with the beginning of Narnia through MN, then switch gears and have the Pevensies enter into a world the audience is already familiar with. 

-KingEdTheJust

"But even a traitor may mend. I have known one that did." - (King Edmund the Just, Horse and his Boy)

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Posted : March 17, 2023 7:27 pm
Courtenay
(@courtenay)
NarniaWeb Fanatic Hospitality Committee

I've been thinking about this topic a bit in the past week or so, especially after having listened to the Talking Beasts podcast, and I can still see good arguments on both sides. I would say the case for each side (summing up @gp's 6 arguments into two camps) could be put like this:

LWW first: Narnia needs to start with the most famous, iconic, beloved and familiar story. MN is too new and unfamiliar and different and therefore too risky.

MN first: Narnia needs to start with something completely new and fresh and different and exciting. LWW has been done so many times already that it'll be "old hat" to too many viewers.

I was, for a while there, leaning a little more towards MN first, despite the fact that I'm solidly pro-publication order (or at least definitely LWW first) when it comes to reading the original books. But after some thought, here's a proposal that I don't think I've heard from anyone else yet — unless it was briefly covered in the Talking Beasts episode and I've forgotten! I'm sure I haven't seen it discussed here so far.

If I were directing / producing / otherwise in charge of the new all-7-books screen adaptation of Narnia, here's what I'd do. Each book would be a serial in probably 6 to 8 half-hour episodes each, as I don't think a 2-hour movie is enough to do any of them justice...

Series 1: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe 

The familiar and much-loved classic, but given a fresh look and feel. Keep it consistent with the beautiful, mysterious, rather understated tone of the book (no overdone chase scenes and massive-scale battle scenes — those really irked me in the Walden version), focus on getting to know the characters well (especially the four Pevensies) and getting a sense of their ongoing story arcs — and throw in a few gentle but tantalising hints of Narnia's broader history that viewers who haven't read the books may not know about and will be intrigued by. Could there be a few allusions to the White Witch having destroyed her own kingdom in another world long ago and to her having once visited our world? And towards the end, when the Pevensies are Kings and Queens, have several scenes and snippets that show them interacting with the wider world around Narnia — Archenland and Calormen and the Lone Islands, little tastes of some of the things they do to govern Narnia wisely and well and keep it a happy and peaceful land for everyone who lives there. During this part, naturally, they transition from being children to adults. Then finish at last with the familiar coda where they ride out to hunt the White Stag, pass the "tree of iron", stumble back out of the wardrobe as English schoolchildren again, and have a very interesting conversation with the Professor...

In short, I'd want to do the story we all know, but have more allusions than previous versions as to the bigger picture to come. Then...

Series 2 — surprise!!! — The Horse and His Boy

This just came to me as a way to (hopefully) please as many people from both "camps" as possible. As soon as we've had LWW for the iconic and familiar and comforting (and to quietly reinforce the point that it really IS meant to be the start of the series, despite the numbering on modern editions of the books) — here's where we launch into the totally new and fresh and different and exciting. That's why the preceding series of LWW would have more hints about the wider world around Narnia and show more of what the Pevensies are doing as they mature into their role as Kings and Queens. I'm not sure how we'd manage the transition from one book to the next, especially as it involves a bit of flashback, but perhaps a character early on (maybe Bree, maybe one of the Calormenes) could make a reference to Narnia being ruled by two Kings and two Queens at the same time, so that we as viewers are immediately clued in that this is taking place during the Pevensies' reign that we've already seen a bit of. (I can imagine Bree saying it wistfully, as it's something he dimly remembers from his foalhood; a Calormene, perhaps Arsheesh or the Tarkaan Anradin when they're talking, would probably mention it with disgust, as Calormen has only one absolute monarch and does NOT allow female rulers of any kind.)

So the story of HHB unfolds from there and before too long we are reintroduced to the adult Pevensies we met in the final episode of LWW, which reinforces the continuity while giving viewers a completely different Narnia story that is fully canonical but hasn't ever been done on screen.

I'm now just thinking how to also establish continuity with the following story, which is Prince Caspian — I'm imagining a scene at the end of HHB where Bree and Hwin come to visit Cor and Aravis at Anvard (as the end of the book says they do regularly). According to Lewis's later timeline (which isn't always reliable!), this is a year after the events of the main story of HHB... perhaps Bree could let them know there's a crisis in Narnia: "The four Kings and Queens are gone! They rode out one day and simply vanished — never came back..." And Hwin, ever the thoughtful one, could add that she's spoken to the old Faun Tumnus and he said they were last seen near the lamppost where he first met Queen Lucy all those years ago: "So we think they must somehow have gone back into their own world, where they came from. Maybe Aslan sent them back there — maybe they were needed there? We just don't know..." There could also be a slight allusion to what may come — will Narnia be safe without its wise human rulers, when there are other countries (not just Calormen, but Telmar to the west) that would love to take it by force? But end on an overall happy note, with an obvious hint that Cor and Aravis, despite (or because of!!) their constant quarrelling, are heading for marriage and will be excellent rulers of Archenland.

And THEN back to the regular order of things for Series 3 - 5: Prince Caspian, The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, The Silver Chair, with the continuity of actors and storylines for each. And in between the main action of those, as I was speculating before, have snippets of the Pevensie children getting in touch with the Professor again, meeting his friend Polly as well, and forming the Friends of Narnia (this is where we also see Susan's rejection of Narnia, so that it's not dropped in as a complete shock in the final story).

At the end of SC, with Jill and Eustace now part of the group, everyone wants the Professor and Aunt Polly to tell them the whole story — only hinted at so far — of how the two of them saw Narnia being created. Cue the beginning of Series 6: The Magician's Nephew... (And this of course will hark back to LWW and all those questions from the most familiar story that have never been answered in a screen version before: where did the White Witch come from, how did a lamppost get into Narnia, why does Narnia ideally need human rulers, how did that wardrobe come to be...???)

And the finale, obviously, is Series 7: The Last Battle. No questions about where that should go in the order of things, at least!!

My apologies for this long ramble, if people are finding it boring! I just keep getting carried away with what I wish a "proper" screen adaptation of Narnia could do, if only... Grin Wink  

"Now you are a lioness," said Aslan. "And now all Narnia will be renewed."
(Prince Caspian)

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Posted : March 22, 2023 6:27 am
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