@jasmine_tarkheena 

If the new movie is a musical I would hope it would be old fashioned like the book. Having rock’n’roll music in The Magician’s Nephew seems like an anachronism. I would hope that the Victorian time period would be followed closely in the parts of the story set in our world. The people could look like they came out of a Dickens novel, but in Charn everything would look more ancient. It is especially important to get the time periods right in a move made from an old fashioned book.

@Narnian78: Having rock’n’roll music in The Magician’s Nephew seems like an anachronism.

Of course, when the sort of music of the times in The Magician's Nephew, was what is still called classical. Such as The Blue Danube, or other music by Strauss. What about Eric Coates' music describing London, itself, like Covent Garden, or Knightsbridge, composed for his London Suite (1932), or maybe London Again (1936)? Though considerably more modern than 1900, it would at least strike the right tone in the right place. Though Sir Thomas Beecham who helped found the London Philharmonic Orchestra might be a better choice.  

Rock'n'roll, was/is a Baby Boomer thing, right up to 1964, when the Beatles became so popular, & is definitely anachronistic, when Swing was the order of the day, in post WW2 Britain, & when Glen Miller's In the Mood was all the rage. 

@waggawerewolf27 

I am not very familiar with the music of the 1930’s, but I think it might work better for The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe than The Magician’s Nephew.  Both the songs of the 1930’s and ‘40s were listening music during the Blitz, which opens the wardrobe story. But of course it would only work for the earth portion of the story. The World War II music was at least twenty or more years before rock’n’roll.  So it’s better to keep rock music out of Narnia. It doesn’t belong in fairy tales anyway. 

I really, really, really do think Amy Pascal's infamous "all about rock and roll" comment was not meant to be taken literally, so I very much doubt there is any danger of such a blatant anachronism cropping up in the soundtrack of either MN or any future Netflix Narnia productions...  

It will be interesting in what direction The Magician's Nephew film will take.

I don't think Netflix has the rights to the Narnia logo that Walden Media used, so they'll have to come up with their own logo.

Question is how would they start the movie? Maybe a shot of Victorian London with instrumental music in the background, perhaps.

Then of course, there's not a huge battle scene (I don't know if there are some who still expect to see that in fantasy, given how much has changed over the years). But I would say the climax in The Magician's Nephew is where Digory is at the Garden of Youth, retrieving the silver apple, and Jadis is tempting him three time. So it's like he has a choice to make, should he steal the apple for himself or should he listen to Aslan's instructions? There could some tension or confrontation, but who says it has to be physical with a battle scene? 

So I think it will be interesting to see what direction The Magician's Nephew will take. It will also be a new turn in the franchise, starting with something it hasn't been done before.

Posted by: @narnian78

@waggawerewolf27 

I am not very familiar with the music of the 1930’s, but I think it might work better for The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe than The Magician’s Nephew.  Both the songs of the 1930’s and ‘40s were listening music during the Blitz, which opens the wardrobe story. But of course it would only work for the earth portion of the story. The World War II music was at least twenty or more years before rock’n’roll.  So it’s better to keep rock music out of Narnia. It doesn’t belong in fairy tales anyway. 

Yes, you are right to say that music of the 1930's would be more suitable for the Lion, the Witch & the Wardrobe, but some particular examples of music are far more "London-centric" than others, hence my mentioning Eric Coates' music for Knightsbridge, for example, or "Covent Gardens", the very centre of London ballet and theatre, not only the flower markets outside, featured in Oliver, the film & the musical. World War II music, such as Vera Lynn's songs, who died only in the last few years, was something I grew up with, even though I was born at the beginning of 1948. Yes, it is better to keep rock music out of Narnia, when Elvis Presley's career started by 1955, when I was in about 2nd class at school, & when MN was published as well. 

There are plenty of late 19th century composers: Brahms, who died in 1897, for instance, or maybe Maurice Ravel? Though Gustav Holst, who wrote The Planets suite, the music for Mars, in particular, makes me think of Charn, was early 20th century, rather than 1900.  

@ Jasmine: Question is how would they start the movie? Maybe a shot of Victorian London with instrumental music in the background, perhaps.

Good question! MN starts in Polly's London suburban backyard. It seems she lives in one of those long rows of terraced houses, that I noticed in Bayswater, just to the north of Kensington Gardens, or maybe somewhere else in busy London, which adjoins the city of Westminster. She was playing in her own backyard, when a boy's head pops up over the dividing fence from his place. So, the story really starts from Polly's point of view. Perhaps her noticing that there are new neighbours moving into that house, the previous day?

Posted by: @waggawerewolf27

Yes, you are right to say that music of the 1930's would be more suitable for the Lion, the Witch & the Wardrobe, but some particular examples of music are far more "London-centric" than others, hence my mentioning Eric Coates' music for Knightsbridge, for example, or "Covent Gardens", the very centre of London ballet and theatre, not only the flower markets outside, featured in Oliver, the film & the musical. World War II music, such as Vera Lynn's songs, who died only in the last few years, was something I grew up with, even though I was born at the beginning of 1948. Yes, it is better to keep rock music out of Narnia, when Elvis Presley's career started by 1955, when I was in about 2nd class at school, & when MN was published as well. 

There are plenty of late 19th century composers: Brahms, who died in 1897, for instance, or maybe Maurice Ravel? Though Gustav Holst, who wrote The Planets suite, the music for Mars, in particular, makes me think of Charn, was early 20th century, rather than 1900.  

Just off the top of my head, as a fan of classical / orchestral music, the only really famous British composer I can think of who was active at the time The Magician's Nephew is set in would be Edward Elgar (1857-1934). I'm pretty sure everyone here will at least be familiar with his most popular piece, Pomp and Circumstance March No. 1, better known as Land of Hope and Glory!   At least a few snatches of his music, or something original in his style, would be appropriate for the early 1900s. Of course, continental European composers — like Brahms (German) and Ravel (French) — and their music were very fashionable at the time, and Elgar and others were heavily influenced by them.

(We don't get a really distinctive "English" style of orchestral music until just a little further into the 1900s, when Gustav Holst — yes, he was English, with German ancestry — and Ralph Vaughan Williams, and a few others, travelled around England collecting folk songs from older people and composing music that uses those songs or is influenced directly by them. But that is totally off the subject of MN and onto the subject of my own favourite composers and their music, so I will shut up about that right here. )

Back on topic, though, there's a difference in film-making between music that is "in" the story — that the characters themselves are hearing, as part of the plot — and music that (implicitly) only we as the audience are hearing and it's there to set the emotional tone of the scene. And there is a specific term for those two types of music in a film, which I know one or more of the movie buffs here on NarniaWeb have used, and I've gone and forgotten what it is again!!   (@icarus, was it you who used it fairly recently?)

The point being, if there's music that Digory and Polly themselves are hearing — like an organ grinder or a singing merchant in the streets of London, or a gramophone record (just becoming popular at the time; the "wireless" (radio) hadn't quite been invented yet) — then that obviously needs to be historically appropriate to the period.

Whereas the whatever-the-technical-term-is music that we hear just as the general soundtrack — which will usually be original music by the film's composer — can be in a more modern style, if the director and the composer feel that's appropriate. It will be interesting to see, or rather to hear, how it ends up being done. (Of course Aslan's song of creation, which will also be music that the characters themselves can hear, definitely does need to be something very different from late Victorian period music, and hopefully it will be something completely awesome!)

Posted by: @waggawerewolf27

Good question! MN starts in Polly's London suburban backyard. It seems she lives in one of those long rows of terraced houses, that I noticed in Bayswater, just to the north of Kensington Gardens, or maybe somewhere else in busy London, which adjoins the city of Westminster. She was playing in her own backyard, when a boy's head pops up over the dividing fence from his place. So, the story really starts from Polly's point of view. Perhaps her noticing that there are new neighbours moving into that house, the previous day?

I like the idea of it starting from Polly's point of view!  I doubt she'd have seen people moving into the house, because she was surprised to see Digory.  She has to play alone out in the garden for the whole summer holidays as her family isn't going to the seaside that year. However she is clearly good at amusing herself (as seen in her Pirates' Cave in the attic and the story she is writing).

I'd like a wide London shot with landmarks of the day and then square mile upon square mile of terraced houses. Maybe firstly show Polly's front door and an adjoining one (the Ketterleys' house), with relevant tradesmen and delivery boys calling at one of the houses, then change to the back garden with Polly having gone out to play after a short conversation with her mother including that Polly is sorry not to be going to the seaside, and her mother sending her out to play. Cut to Polly involved in something, suddenly distracted by the sound and sight of Digory climbing up the wall between them.

Update:  I want to have the London landscape (landmarks and lots of terraced houses), zooming in on a front door where a postman has just knocked at the door; it is answered by a young girl, who takes the letters and we hear the door close as she walks up the entrance hall and through the house to her mother; the camera follows her as she hands the letters to her mother, and is sent out into the garden, saying as she leaves that she wishes they had been able to go to the seaside this summer. Change of shot to Polly playing with something in the garden....and a noise makes her look up... a boy has just climbed up the other side of the wall. 

Posted by: @courtenay

Back on topic, though, there's a difference in film-making between music that is "in" the story — that the characters themselves are hearing, as part of the plot — and music that (implicitly) only we as the audience are hearing and it's there to set the emotional tone of the scene. And there is a specific term for those two types of music in a film, which I know one or more of the movie buffs here on NarniaWeb have used, and I've gone and forgotten what it is again!!  

(@icarus, was it you who used it fairly recently?)

It was indeed! Well remembered (on that part at least) 😉 

Music (and other elements) which exist within the world of the movie (i.e. which the characters can hear) and are part of the story are referred to as Diegetic elements. 

Things which do not exist within the world of the movie (such as the musical score, the editing, the camera movement etc) but rather are part of the storytelling, and are only perceived by the audience, are referred to as non-Diegetic elements.

Diegetic vs non-diegetic!   Thanks, @icarus. I'll try not to forget that again. I usually remember words pretty well, so this was frustrating, but at least I remembered who used it recently!

(For some reason I kept thinking of "eidetic", as I knew it was a similar word to that but not the same — "eidetic" is the technical term to describe what we commonly call a "photographic memory". Which, incidentally, C.S. Lewis himself had, and so did his wife Joy. He could recall anything on any page of any book he'd ever read, and used to get his students to test him on it by having them choose any book on his shelves and start reading from it at random, and he'd pick it up word-perfect from there. Joy could read through the sheet music for any piano piece just once, then go straight to the piano and play it perfectly from memory. But that's completely off topic. ) 

Perhaps there's a whole topic thread to be bad on the music, but in terms of "Victorian style" scores, I feel like Hans Zimmer absolutely nailed it with the Sherlock Holmes score...

It would probably need someone with more knowledge of musical instruments than I to say exactly what ithe secret ingredient is, but there is just something about it which feels very evocative of the era.

@Courtenay: Just off the top of my head, as a fan of classical / orchestral music, the only really famous British composer I can think of who was active at the time The Magician's Nephew is set in, would be Edward Elgar (1857-1934). I'm pretty sure everyone here will at least be familiar with his most popular piece, Pomp and Circumstance March No. 1, better known as Land of Hope and Glory!

Hmm! Though the producers of MN will likely get in someone to compose the music & soundtrack, like Howard Shore, or John Williams of Harry Potter fame, we are only trying to get some idea of what might be a suitable soundtrack. Yes, I see how Land of Hope and Glory could be just as suitable as I vow to thee my country, the hymn set to Gustav Holst's music from the Jupiter part of his The Planets suite. Especially if a patriotic theme is really called for, in MN. But the only other music from Edward Elgar that I can remember hearing, has been played for funerals much too often.    A wispy, sort of inconclusive music, suggesting a blowing wind & the ocean tide, beautiful, maybe, but perhaps more suitable in a sad sort of way for the Wood between the Worlds. I'm mostly throwing out ideas, as a listener of what might be relevant types of music, with what is still left of my hearing & memory, when I'm certainly old enough to remember what my grandmother, born in 1896, could also tell me about the 1900's.   And of course, Bringing in the sheaves, might really be the sort of popular harvest hymn The Cabbie might sing. 

@coracle: Maybe firstly show Polly's front door and an adjoining one (the Ketterleys' house), with relevant tradesmen and delivery boys calling at one of the houses, then change to the back garden with Polly having gone out to play after a short conversation with her mother including that Polly is sorry not to be going to the seaside...

Do you mean to say, that in London in a particularly wet & dreary summer, according to C.S. Lewis, it actually dried up sufficiently to allow Polly to play in the backyard?   I think, though, it would be important that the front of Polly's & Digory's houses should have bay windows, or at least in Digory's parlour (lounge room), maybe as some past addition. The sort of window one can sit in, discretely, whilst getting a good view of the street. 

Posted by: @waggawerewolf27

Hmm! Though the producers of MN will likely get in someone to compose the music & soundtrack, like Howard Shore, or John Williams of Harry Potter fame, we are only trying to get some idea of what might be a suitable soundtrack.

Howard Shore would be a great choice, if he could manage to capture the right atmosphere for Narnia as awesomely as he did for Middle-earth!  

But meanwhile, only a quite small portion of the book is set in late Victorian London, and there's really only one major scene — the one with Jadis and the Londoners, which we've been discussing elsewhere — that really needs to evoke that era and that atmosphere. Most of the scenes set in our world are focused on Digory and Polly getting to know each other, exploring the attics and accidentally finding Uncle Andrew's secret study, and Digory dealing with his feelings about his mother and the surge of hope that one of these other worlds might hold a cure for her. And then apart from that brief Jadis episode, much of the real action and most of the really memorable scenes in the story take place outside our world — in the Wood between the Worlds, in the ruins of Charn, and of course in Narnia, before, during and after its creation.

I'm guessing that whoever composes the score for this new movie may put in a few "period" references — snatches of popular songs or classical music from that era, or a few sections of the score that imitate those styles — to go with some of the London scenes. But the bulk of the soundtrack is most likely going to be original music to create the atmosphere of those totally different worlds that this story takes us to.

Yes, I see how Land of Hope and Glory could be just as suitable as I vow to thee my country, the hymn set to Gustav Holst's music from the Jupiter part of his The Planets suite.

There's another anachronism — The Planets was composed between 1914-1917, and I Vow to Thee, My Country wasn't set to the tune from Jupiter until 1921. Also, at least in Britain (I don't know how often it's sung anywhere else), it's virtually always associated with the armed forces and Remembrance Day, since it's all about serving one's country and making "the final sacrifice", and longing for "another country" (i.e. heaven) beyond this one. Not suitable for MN or any of the Chronicles, really. (Lewis himself of course served in the First World War for a relatively short time, and made clear in his few references to it that he preferred not to think or talk about it much.) 

Especially if a patriotic theme is really called for, in MN.

Just wondering though, how and where is any patriotic theme called for in MN? As I said, most of the really important parts of the story aren't set in Britain, and even those that are, aren't heavily focused on the nation itself. We've been comparing Jadis to Queen Victoria in that other thread, but I don't think there are any actual references whatsoever to Victoria (who was very elderly and reclusive by then) within the story. And there's definitely nothing jingoistic in any of the Chronicles, about Britain in general or England in particular. (Don't forget, too, Lewis was actually Irish. Of Protestant stock, yes, and from the region that remained part of the UK after the rest of Ireland gained independence, but I've never got the impression he was the sort of person who ever got overwhelmed with patriotic fervour for either his original homeland or his adopted one.)

 And of course,Bringing in the sheaves, might really be the sort of popular harvest hymn The Cabbie might sing. 

Ah, now I was wondering what hymn (or 'ymn ) the Cabby started singing in the darkness before Aslan's song of creation begins. I hadn't heard of the one you linked to there, Wagga, but I've just looked at it and it's described as "a popular American Gospel song", written in 1874. So it's not impossible that it would have been known over here in 1900, but something tells me it wouldn't have been part of the (very staid and proper) Church of England hymnary at the time. We don't know what denomination Frank was, but given that he's a working-class Victorian Englishman, probably either C of E or Methodist. Lewis himself was of course most familiar with the Church of England, to which he belonged.

I just did a bit of searching online for "traditional Church of England harvest hymns", aware that we're given a tiny quote from what Frank sang — that it was about crops being "safely gathered in" — and look what I found... it's almost certainly the exact hymn Lewis was thinking of!  

Come, Ye Thankful People, Come (Henry Alford, 1844)

Come, ye thankful people, come,
Raise the song of harvest home!
All is safely gathered in,
Ere the winter storms begin...

Here's the best recording I can find of it, in proper C of E style.

And really, I reckon we've got to hand it to Lewis for putting in a significant and positive reference to a real-life hymn (which Digory and Polly find "very cheering" in the darkness), when he himself unabashedly detested church music in general and hymns in particular!!  

Do you mean to say, that in London in a particularly wet & dreary summer, according to C.S. Lewis, it actually dried up sufficiently to allow Polly to play in the backyard?  

Well, we are told that she was "out in the back garden" that morning when Digory looked over the wall from the garden next door, so there it is. But please — they're strictly back gardens here. I know we're both Aussies (and even just now, coincidentally, my mum has posted to our family WhatsApp group to say she's "still watering in the backyard" at the end of another very hot day in Oz), but from living here in the UK, I can confirm British people do not use the terms "yard" and "garden" interchangeably like we do. A "yard" here is a big open space (or a measurement), not one with things growing in it.  

I think, though, it would be important that the front of Polly's & Digory's houses should have bay windows, or at least in Digory's parlour (lounge room), maybe as some past addition. The sort of window one can sit in, discretely, whilst getting a good view of the street. 

We are indeed told that Digory "glued his face" to the "bow-window" to watch for Jadis, although it was in the dining-room, not the parlour, but that's a minor detail! Polly's house would most likely have been identical on the outside, or nearly so, it being a terrace row. I don't think any of the real action happens at her house, though.