Just reading through this old thread of adaptation ideas for MN. I think the idea of expanding out Jadis' backstory a little bit is kind of interesting, though I'll need to have a think about it a bit longer.

Posted by: @rose

We don't have a thread open just for discussion of Netflix's (likely) upcoming adaptation of The Magician's Nephew, so I figured I'd start one. 

Fair play on calling it as "likely" 4 years ago! Predictive power!

So given then that its looking more and more likely that MN will in fact be the first adaptation, ill also throw a couple of things into the mix that i'd like to see in terms of adaptation changes.

• I'd be up for seeing the children go into a couple of extra pools in the Wood Between the Worlds. In a book, you obviously want to keep things clean, clear, and to-the-point, however i think film offers you the opportunity to do something a bit more dynamic and free-form. For example, you could allow the children to and have a bit more fun with visiting the various pools in a montage before arriving in Charn, or you could have all the protagonists tumble through a few different worlds before finally arriving in the empty void of pre-Narnia later on.
• I'd be interested in exploring the idea of foreshadowing Aslan earlier on. Either as a non-linear component of the storytelling (i.e. for the audiences benefit) or as an actual component of the story (i.e. for the characters development). Not sure about this, but i'm intrigued by the notion. Although Aslan first appears in MN more-or-less when he does in LWW (i.e. 1/2 to 3/4 of the way through) he gets a lot more build up in LWW. Though maybe the unexpectedness of a Lion appearing in MN when and where he does is part of the fun?

The depiction of Charn surely should be very thought provoking. Jadis has the "deplorable word" and isn't afraid to use it. She has conquered her world in her pride, but has she gained anything? With nobody left to boss around, just dust, with all other life gone, all she can do is stay on a pedestal, until awoken under a dying Sun. Much good did it do for this megalomaniac. A "high & lonely destiny", indeed. I can't wait to see how a movie will treat this part of the story. 

Next to the creation scenes, and Jadis in London, Polly and Digory visiting Charn, I hope will be a bit of an eye-opener. 

What should the world of Charn look like?  Should it look something like Mars but with some ancient buildings in it or maybe like the planet Vulcan on Star Trek? Probably for a movie or television series it should have an abandoned look as it was portrayed in Lewis’ original story.  It is an empty forsaken world which was a victim of Jadis and the “deplorable word”.  It definitely should not be a pleasant place since it was ruled by Jadis. Since Charn is a place occupied by an evil person it should be at least somewhat foreboding. And with people made into statues it would be quite frightening for a movie for children, although like in the book there has to be some realism in showing what kind of place it is.

Posted by: @narnian78

And with people made into statues it would be quite frightening for a movie for children, although like in the book there has to be some realism in showing what kind of place it is.

Just to clarify, the statues in the hall in Charn weren't "people made into statues", except for Jadis herself. That comes through in what she says to Polly and Digory:

"I had already cast strong spells on the hall where the images of my ancestors sit. And the force of those spells was that I should sleep among them, like an image myself, and need neither food nor fire, though it were a thousand years, till one came and struck the bell and awoke me."

In other words, the other "images" were just that — statues, not actual people turned to stone or wax. There's never any indication that the images themselves were previously alive. Jadis, on the other hand, magically made herself become "like an image", but unlike the others, she was alive and able to be woken. It might help if the (hopefully) upcoming film makes that a little clearer than the book does, but it's definitely in there. 

@courtenay

Jadis actually turned talking animals and others like Mr. Tumnus into statues when she was the White Witch in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. I guess she always had the ability to do it even in The Magician’s Nephew. But maybe she didn’t use her ability until she got to Narnia. But even if the statues in Charn weren’t real people they were frightening enough. She had the ability to turn people and animals into stone even though she didn’t always use it. 

But getting back to my original question: what do you think Charn should look like?  Could they make it look real enough in a movie or television series like in the book?

Posted by: @narnian78

I guess she always had the ability to do it even in The Magician’s Nephew.

This is getting off topic, but The Magician's Nephew actually implies Jadis has different powers depending on what world she inhabits. Remember she couldn't turn Aunt Letty to dust in England and apparently, she couldn't in Narnia either since we never see her do so. (Would have come in handy.) Aslan says at the end that Jadis "has fled far away into the North of the world; she will live on there, growing stronger in dark Magic." Presumably, that's when she learned how to turn people to stone.

Posted by: @narnian78

@courtenay

Jadis actually turned talking animals and others like Mr. Tumnus into statues when she was the White Witch in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. I guess she always had the ability to do it even in The Magician’s Nephew. But maybe she didn’t use her ability until she got to Narnia.

As @col-klink has pointed out (and I was just going to), Jadis seems to lose her magic powers once she's out of Charn. I've also always had the impression that she essentially had to "relearn" magic once she was in Narnia, or rather in the far North. I remember one of the Talking Beasts presenters once suggesting that that could be the reason why she uses a wand in LWW, whereas she doesn't in MN — the wand could be some kind of "work-around" that enables her to use magic in a world where her original powers don't work! And presumably the Deplorable Word wouldn't have worked for her in Narnia, or she might very well have used it there. (That's one necessary-to-the-plot reason why Lewis might have decided to make her unable to do magic in our world or in Narnia.)

But even if the statues in Charn weren’t real people they were frightening enough. She had the ability to turn people and animals into stone even though she didn’t always use it. 

They weren't all frightening, as such. If you read the description in the book, they start out looking like "nice people" — kind and wise — and then, as Polly and Digory go along, the statues in succession start to look more solemn, then cruel, then dreadfully unhappy. It's implicitly a record of Charn's royal dynasty becoming more and more corrupted by evil, until it culminated in Jadis, who of course destroyed everything rather than give up her throne.

I've always assumed that every king or queen of Charn, at their death, had an image of them made to go in that hall, an ultra-realistic one that reflected what kind of person, and ruler, each of them was. Jadis herself says they are the images of her ancestors, so obviously there's no way they could be people that she turned to stone. We're not in fact told they're made of stone at all — they're described as being like "the most wonderful waxworks you ever saw", and the clothes on them are real (and apparently preserved by magic), so obviously they're in full colour. Whereas the people and creatures turned into stone by the White Witch in LWW are definitely stone, and colourless (as we can tell from Lewis's description of the stone lion coming back to life).

(It's always worth remembering, anyway, that Lewis wrote MN partly as the White Witch's origin story, but there are a LOT of disparities between Jadis in that book and the White Witch as she appears in LWW. Of course they're meant to be the same character, but Lewis apparently didn't read back over what he'd originally written about her and think about how to tie it all in, so there are a lot of things between the two books that just don't add up.)

But getting back to my original question: what do you think Charn should look like?  Could they make it look real enough in a movie or television series like in the book?

I'm hoping they'll make it look very much as described in the book, which shouldn't be difficult these days with the wonders of CGI! Back in the 1980s and early '90s, when I was a kid, we were quite used to live-action adaptations of fantasy stories having to do things a bit differently from the book because of the limitations of technology at the time — and it was always an "oh, wow!!" thing when they did manage to do really convincing special effects, as they sometimes did*, because we knew how much work had to go into making fantastical things look real. Modern technology has sort of spoiled the "how did they do THAT???" excitement, now that they can do just about anything on screen! But it means we can have much higher expectations than we used to, anyway.

* The BBC didn't.  

@Courtenay: Modern technology has sort of spoiled the "how did they do THAT???" excitement, now that they can do just about anything on screen! But it means we can have much higher expectations than we used to, anyway.

I sort of dreamed that in Charn, the palace walls might be done, a bit like those of an Egyptian pyramid, say, or like the Pharaoh Tutankhamen's tomb, all covered with pictures & pictogram-style writing, not with proper hieroglyphics, of course, or Mayan illustrations, or anything too identifiably historic. But still with weird-looking letters, perhaps, just like the bell, reacting to touch, that changes to recognisable English as they pass. Or like the now abandoned palaces of the Assyrians, Carthaginians, Persians or other ancient civilizations, now archaeological sites - if they are lucky. Ornate and very much alive with humanoid activity. There is an old expression: "if walls have ears": what if, as Jadis passes by, firmly attached to Polly and Digory, telling them about various episodes from Charn-ish history, as she goes, a few of these episodes start to spring to life? Vague maps to show battle action? How will Jadis explain what happened when, facing defeat at her sister's hands, having "poured out her armies like water", her sister mounts the terrace at the head of her victorious armies? Only to become dust. 

Even if it is done only in animated (graphic) form, it would enable the dialogue to be more to the point, & mostly supplied by Jadis, herself, apart from opinions expressed by Polly and Digory. My inspiration is from a 5 minute + speech I had to give last month, about the first European couple to marry in Hobart, Tasmania, on 18th March 1804. This was a "show & tell", one of 6 in 42 minutes, so, apart from the speech, I had to have as many visual aids as possible, such as 2 posters, with maps, background explorations, lists, a book I quoted from and a compilation of the sources I used, including 2 little jugs, my centre piece, only one of which allegedly belonged to the bride of that marriage & which both still remain in my family. 

About the Sun in Charn: That is quite easy, if anyone had the presence of mind to photograph around our own Sun during those horrendous California wildfires last month. The very wildfire smoke would have turned the Sun quite red, just like the disastrous dull red Sun of Charn. I noted this phenomenon, myself, even commenting on Narnia Web about it, in November or December in 2019, when smoke from bushfires from Queensland to Victoria dulled the Sun in Sydney, surrounded by these fires, for days on end, until January 17th, in 2020, when it finally started to rain properly. Coracle even noted at the time that the smoke from those fires even crossed the Tasman to New Zealand's other side, facing the Pacific. Surely, there are plenty of people around who might have noticed & remembered that sort of thing at the time. 

About Jadis' wand in LWW, according to JK Rowling, who took quite a bit of inspiration from Narnia, it is the wand which chooses the wizard, and it depends how it is constructed, & the vibes it gets from its owner, how well its owner can use it. I see something of the same idea being used in the second season of The Lord of the Rings: The Power of the Rings. It was JK Rowling who compared MN's Wood Between the Worlds to a library, in a speech she did for UK's Library Week, for instance. 

@Courtenay: I've always assumed that every king or queen of Charn, at their death, had an image of them made to go in that hall, an ultra-realistic one that reflected what kind of person, and ruler, each of them was.

And from the point of view of Digory and Polly, this might very well look like magic, even though it is mere commonplace with today's CGI. MN was set in the 1890's, perhaps even before C.S. Lewis was born, himself. Sherlock Holmes, according to CS Lewis' introductory 1st chapter to MN, still lived in Baker Street, Queen Victoria was still alive, which puts the story before Australia's Federation Day - 1/1/1901- 3 weeks before Queen Victoria finally passed away. But Madame Tussaud's, first started in 1835, in Baker Street, was switched, in 1883, to its current site in Marylebone Road, just down from Sherlock Holmes' statue, near the Baker Street Tube Station. I think you are right, but again, Polly, as she passed the gallery of statues, could still get some idea of what they had been up to, & what sort of people they might be, just by looking at their faces. If anyone gets to visit Buckingham Palace, (which is horrendously expensive, but combined with a tour of Windsor Castle as well), there is also a long line of large, painted, Royal portraits in one of the galleries, there, performing much the same function as that Hall of Statues in Charn's palace. 

The current site of Madame Tussaud's. 

@courtenay 

Do you wish that the BBC had been able to adapt The Magician’s Nephew?  I think it would have been at least an acceptable version of the story, although it would not have had the advantages of  modern production.  The creation of Narnia with the puppet Aslan would have looked somewhat primitive, but to me that doesn’t matter that much, and it may have even added some old fashioned charm to the story, which is something that the book also has.  Some people might have even enjoyed it if they had a taste for nostalgia. 🙂

@narnian78 I did once fantasise about what might have happened if the BBC had decided to revive the Narnia series and do the last three stories just a few years later, at the time when CGI became advanced enough to make real animals look like they are talking, which would have solved the problem of needing realistic Talking Horses for HHB... it's in this thread here: The Lost Narnia Adaptations

However, that wouldn't have meant they could do justice to such an awe-inspiring scene as the creation of Narnia — not without a much bigger budget than they usually had — and given the general standards of their special (?) effects, I'm mostly glad they didn't attempt it!   But it's fun to speculate, I agree, and at least that series always had its heart in the right place — determined to adapt what C.S. Lewis actually wrote, not what some hotshot director thinks he should have written — even if the results were rather clunky. 

Posted by: @waggawerewolf27

About the Sun in Charn: That is quite easy, if anyone had the presence of mind to photograph around our own Sun during those horrendous California wildfires last month. The very wildfire smoke would have turned the Sun quite red, just like the disastrous dull red Sun of Charn. I noted this phenomenon, myself, even commenting on Narnia Web about it, in November or December in 2019, when smoke from bushfires from Queensland to Victoria dulled the Sun in Sydney, surrounded by these fires, for days on end, until January 17th, in 2020, when it finally started to rain properly. Coracle even noted at the time that the smoke from those fires even crossed the Tasman to New Zealand's other side, facing the Pacific. Surely, there are plenty of people around who might have noticed & remembered that sort of thing at the time.

Agreed - displaying the sun in this way I think would fairly well portray the sun in Charn as described in the book.  The smoke was causing the sun to appear similarly where I live in north western Victoria, just before Christmas.  Interesting little side note - that smoke in the 2019-20 fires, caused a rather unsettled night for some kids I was minding in a STA (short term accommodation/respite house), as it caused the smoke detectors to go off repeatedly - I checked the whole house a few house, but it ended up being concluded that the smoke from those fires had caused the smoke alarms to go off.

Also, in regard to the appearance of Charn I tend to picture it somewhere in between an ancient Rome appearance and a combination of middles ages London and 1930s-40s European cities (in particular I'm thinking of 1930s-40s Berlin as often depicted in WW2 movies - with the cobblestone footpaths).  I'm not sure if that description makes sense, but it's what I tend to picture when reading the book and looking at Pauline Baynes' illustrations of Charn.

Posted by: @narnian78

@courtenay 

Do you wish that the BBC had been able to adapt The Magician’s Nephew?  I think it would have been at least an acceptable version of the story, although it would not have had the advantages of  modern production.  The creation of Narnia with the puppet Aslan would have looked somewhat primitive, but to me that doesn’t matter that much, and it may have even added some old fashioned charm to the story, which is something that the book also has.  Some people might have even enjoyed it if they had a taste for nostalgia. 🙂

By the way, @narnian78, I know your question about BBC Narnia was to @courtenay, but I must say - with the BBC productions having a very soft place in my heart, I would have liked to have seen a BBC production of MN.  In fact for many years I dreamed of such a production.  I even dreamed of acting in and or directing such a production myself! And of course with the puppets and costumes - it does leave plenty to the imagination.

The Magician’s Nephew might be the most vintage of the Narnia books. Digory and Polly explored the attic of a Victorian era house and ended up in Uncle Andrew’s study. It does have an antique quality about it, but then again all seven of the books resemble medieval fairy tales at least in the Narnia portions. The BBC series and Walden films were somewhat successful in showing the vintage appearance of the other books.  Do you like The Magician’s Nephew for nostalgic reasons because it is old fashioned?  There are many other reasons to like the story, but I think this is one of the first things that attracted me to it. A film version would hopefully preserve that endearing quality.  🙂

Posted by: @narnian78

Do you like The Magician’s Nephew for nostalgic reasons because it is old fashioned?  There are many other reasons to like the story, but I think this is one of the first things that attracted me to it. A film version would hopefully preserve that endearing quality.  🙂

 

Reading your post, I'd have to say yes, the nostalgia of MN is certainly one of the many things I like about that story, but also that aspect of that particular story is why I could much more easily picture a BBC production of MN than of HHB or LB which both to greater or lesser degrees I've always pictured as bigger in scale.  Two puppet/animatronic horses riding across the desert for instance or real horses made to talk in Mr Ed style (the only two ways I could picture the BBC having done it) just seems too tacky!  For a scene or two I could put up with that - but for a whole movie or series... nah, I can't see it.

I wonder if there is a house with the attics connected where they could film The Magician’s Nephew.  There might be some in the UK, although it would be hard to find a house like that here in the U. S. It probably could be created using CGI effects. I guess the reason why most houses were not built that way was probably to protect private property.  Most people wouldn’t want the neighbors walking in their attic. Attics can give some people claustrophobia (including me) although apparently Digory and Polly weren’t bothered by it too much.

@narnian78 I would say there is zero chance that you would film any of the interior scenes in a real house. It will be easier, cheaper, and much better to build a set.

Especially if they are going to be filming with the larger, bulkier, IMAX cameras, never mind getting all of the necessary cast, crew, rigging etc into a cramped Victorian era house.