Posted by: @calormenwarrior

 

That part of the story with Emeth is one of my favorites in the whole franchise, I hope they don't cut it out... it's beautiful.

Posted by: @calormenwarrior

I'm also afraid of romance... Narnia's story doesn't need it. However, it's hard to see a Hollywood production without it. 

It's very rare to see a guy and a girl being close friends and that's it in Hollywood productions (and I'm getting kind of tired of some romantic relation to be in every Hollywood production). I watch Hallmark movies, and I don't think I've ever seen a guy and a girl just be really close friends. I think this could be good opportunity for Netflix to do. Digory and Polly could still have that deep friendship, but it doesn't have to be romance. Even Shasta and Aravis in The Horse And His Boy (though they do end up getting married), but that could be good opportunity to let the romance take it's time. That's what real life is like.

I think Netflix could even have Caspian and Ramandu's daughter to take their time to get to know one another in Voyage of the Dawn Treader. It could show that it's not love at first sight. It kind of is, in this case, but it isn't like they meet, go off and get married. So I think Netflix could show the relationship taking it's course and time.

I am kind of afraid of a love triangle with Tirian, Eustace and Jill in The Last Battle. It would be the easiest thing to do that they are two guys and one girl, and both the guys are going to like her. And I think she could care less. Then the thought of Rishda having an attraction to Jill, which I kind of talked about in my thread about Villanious Crush In Narnia Movie(s)? The other two villains are an ape and a cat so yeah, it's going to be the Calormene captain that's going to like her. I think it's because the whole theme is about are their loyalties with the real Aslan or Tash or do they only care about "their own profit, such as reward the Tisroc may give them when Narnia is a Calormene province", like Ginger says in the book. So it would be kind of like Jill would have to decide between Eustace and King Tirian since they both like her. Then she would have to decide if she should be with Rishda so he could have her all to himself (trying to be sensitive here) or go through the stable. I don't know which I am more afraid of, the love triangle with Tirian, Eustace and Jill or Rishda having a villainous crush on Jill. While I don't think it will happened, it is something to be fearful of, because it would be the easiest thing to go down the romance path.

  Posted by: @calormenwarrior

But what I'm really looking forward to see is how they're going to treat Susan in The Last Battle. Many fans get angry about how Lewis write her off, and I understand them. I think Netflix would show some scenes with her in our world and her reaction to the train accident?

I actually thought about that. In the book, it wasn't talked about before, and after that, it's not addressed again. Many fans were shocked by Susan's sudden absent, and it's very controversial. I actually kind of was when I read it for the first time. I guess what Netflix could do is have the seven of friends of Narnia coming together, and even try to talk Susan into joining them. She would be like, "I outgrew Narnia! You're still thinking about those games we played when we were kids!" I also kind of wonder if this would mean they would have to make it into a two part movie. That's kind of been the thing for a final saga in a book series these days, like Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows or The Mocking Jay. I wonder if other series would follow suit, like The Chronicles of Prydain, The High King would be a two part movie. So I can kind of see that happening with The Last Battle.

@glenwit @icarus I understood your point. I personally don't think Tash is the kind of villain that would work with a character development... actually, the reveal of him being the final villain was really surprising to me and I liked that, and as @col-klink said, his "easy" defeat can be disappointing to people if there was a build-up in the previous novels. 

  However, I think it would be interesting Tash getting at least mentioned more in some ways in the previous stories. Maybe when the ritual in Prince Caspian to try to ressurrect Jadis was about to happen, someone (like Trufflehunter) could point out having heard about the creepy Tash cults and that that ceremony reminded them of it, for example. 

@jasmine_tarkheena it maybe  generational thing, or a cultural thing, but my reading of these stories is that they are about children, and written for children. 

In the 1930s and 40s, romance was for adults (late teens on). I'm sorry to be blunt, but Lewis didn't write love triangles or romances for the children in his stories. 

He spoke about their later lives (eg Aravis and Shasta marrying as adults) and one potential marriage for adult Susan. 

The Last Battle is not at all the place for a focus on romance. 

@coracle I understand that it's Hollywood's way for marketing. I think Netflix has good opportunity to just be friendship. Tirian and Jewel have such a deep friendship, so it doesn't have to have romance. 

'Hollywood' culture has the power to change clean, innocent English stories, but there's an ethical aspect too.
When they increase the age of the children up to mid teens, and add in a 21st century American teenage romance, they are in danger of losing the original story, its themes and its meaning. Those of us who love the books want to defend them from this.  We don't want just another Hollywood action movie with special effects, named after a children's book.

Watching VDT with commentary recently, I realised that the director hadn't grasped the ethos of the book, and was quite content to turn it into a blockbuster style movie, with action, special effects and a new cute child not in original story. They wrote in a villain, since the story didn't have one.

If anything, Hollywood culture for the past few years has been the exact opposite of what you suggest. More and more movie franchises are choosing to forego a romantic subplot between the lead characters in favour of giving the female characters greater agency in the plot.

Almost all of the core Disney Animation films of the last 5 years have abandoned romance plots for their heroines - Moana, Brave, and most recently Encanto all spring to mind. Ditto "Raya and the Last Dragon" from what I recall.

Action films too like James Bond and Mission Impossible are also now much more likely to have the Female Lead be a active equal to their Male counterpart, not simply a passive vessel for romantic attraction.

@icarus thanks, but in that case, why did the Walden Media writers think it was appropriate? Sigh.
Netflix, I hope you are reading our forums!

My biggest fears for Narnia movies are probably that they'll modernize them, add romance where it doesn't belong, or add pop music into the soundtrack. I don't think the last one's very likely, but that could go very badly. 

Just imagine a Jill/Eustace scene on the edge of the cliff at the start of the Silver Chair. Eustace tries to get Jill to come away from the cliff and this song starts playing The Closer You Get, The Further I Fall. They break into a passionate kiss but Eustace slips and falls off of the cliff.  

Definitely not what we want. 

Sorry, I was listening to my dad's old cds while trying to get the tractor battery charged one day, heard this song and thought of this terrible idea. 

Posted by: @coracle

I'm sorry to be blunt, but Lewis didn't write love triangles or romances for the children in his stories. 

It's true that he didn't. I think that's true of anything that media bases things off of.

Victor Hugo didn't write about a love triangle with Quasimodo, Phoebus, and Esmeralda in The Hunchback of Notre Dame. Yet that is what Disney did. I think they did that so that non of these three would die. One of the things I love about the Disney movie is that the main character didn't end up with the love interest. It was a different take that Phoebus and Esmeralda ended being together, when you thought that Quasimodo was going to end up with her. From a cinematic point of view, while there was various opinions about how successful it was when it first came out, I think Disney did a really good job on making the relationships with the three main characters well developed. It even did a good job showing that the main character doesn't always have to end up with the love interest.

So I think it's one of the traps that filmmakers tend to fall into, because they're never in the original sources that filmmakers try to base things off of. I understand that they think it translates better into cinema.

Posted by: @shmatterson

Just imagine a Jill/Eustace scene on the edge of the cliff at the start of the Silver Chair. Eustace tries to get Jill to come away from the cliff and this song starts playing The Closer You Get, The Further I Fall. They break into a passionate kiss but Eustace slips and falls off of the cliff.  

Definitely not what we want. 

It would be a terrible idea. Besides, why would Eustace and Jill break into a passionate kiss in The Silver Chair? They're just kids! Romance is kind of the thing in marketing these days. It would be tempting to go down that path.

I've talked about this in my thread about Villainous Crush In Narnia Movie(s)?, but it seems that in media these days, an evil villain has an attraction to the main hero or heroine. I feel kind of dumb talking about it, though.

I mean, you have Prince Rabadash wanting to marry Susan in The Horse And His Boy. I think it could work. Maybe Netflix could have Rabadash visit Cair Paravel where is he all nice and courteous and kind. Then as the story progresses, we see him reveal his true nature. It could make an interesting plot twist. It would be like Gaston in Beauty and the Beast, who doesn't start out as an evil villain, but as the story progresses, it makes you go like, "Who is the real beast?" We could almost do the same with Rabadash, "Who is the real barbarian?" I can kind of see that happening.

I think most likely Jill will care less if Tirian, Eustace, and Rishda all end up liking her in The Last Battle. It is certain that she will not end up with any of them anyways. It would be as Netflix were saying, "Oh, there are three main heroes. There are two guys and one girl, so yeah, they're both going to like her." It would be the easiest thing to do, because of the marketing these days. Then you have Rishda trying to make up for his unbelief in Tash by hurling all the heroes into the stable and setting it on fire as an offering to Tash. Then Netflix might say, "Oh, Rishda wants to throw the heroes into the stable as an offering to Tash, and one of them is a girl. Hey, let's have him like her too. That will give him a reason to throw her into the stable." So it would be the easiest thing to have Rishda having an obsession with Jill, and she would have to go through the stable because he wouldn't take "no" for an answer.

Posted by: @coracle

Netflix, I hope you are reading our forums

I wonder if Netflix is actually reading our forums. I wonder if they are like, "Hey, guess what Narniaweb has been talking about. They think this or that would be cool!" So it seems like the stuff we think are terrible ideas, yet Netflix might think they are good ideas.

I just REALLY, honestly, hope to goodness Netflix won't throw in any romantic relationships (or even hints of ones) that aren't in the books already. I would have absolutely no problem with them showing a BIT of attraction between Aravis and Shasta / Cor, who of course do end up marrying each other once they're a bit older. Not blatantly in-your-face stuff — I really don't think it would be right to have them openly professing to have feelings for each other, let alone kissing, at any point during the narrative. The whole funny side of it is that they appear to almost hate each other for much of the story, gradually progressing to a sort of grudging liking, culminating in Lewis's observation that made me laugh even as a very non-romantic seven-year-old first-time reader:

Aravis also had many quarrels (and, I'm afraid, even fights) with Cor, but they always made it up again: so that years later, when they were grown up, they were so used to quarrelling and making it up again that they got married so as to go on doing it more conveniently.

(Just as the old saying goes — I've seen a few versions of it and don't know who first said it: "Marriage is finding that one special person you can annoy for the rest of your life." )

My point is, it'd be great if the scriptwriters can show a few hints of Shasta and Aravis having that kind of relationship coming on subtly — they fight all the time and genuinely believe, on the surface, that they can't stand each other, but there's a sense that, deep down, in a way neither of them really recognises yet, they wouldn't want to lose each other...  

Other romances that are canonical — fine. Rabadash isn't so much in love with Queen Susan as in lust with her — naturally that isn't set out too explicitly in a children's book, but it's clear enough and it's a major part of the plot. He hates her for not wanting him, but that somehow makes him want her all the more. The whole conflict element of the plot is driven by the fact that Rabadash is so obsessed with having the "barbarian Queen" for his own that he tries to wage war with Narnia, via Archenland, after Susan escapes. The story doesn't work without that in it!

Also Uncle Andrew being more than a little in love with Jadis and convincing himself that she must love him — that's also a pretty important element of The Magician's Nephew and one that young readers can understand well enough. It shows up his own vanity and foolishness very well indeed.

Romances and crushes that aren't in the original stories, though (involving heroes, villains or both)... no, no, no, PLEASE, NO. Hopefully they may have learned from Walden... I mean, seriously, does anyone know anyone who actually liked the infamous "Suspian" romance in the movie version of Prince Caspian? I haven't watched it myself, but I've never heard a good word said about that aspect of it, even by people who didn't mind the film on the whole... 

It's actually quite a relief that Disney, as @icarus mentioned, has avoided giving romantic interests to the main characters in a lot of their recent movies. It makes a nice change from impressing young viewers with the idea that one must fall in love and get married in order to have a "happily ever after" ending. So if the people at Netflix are on the ball, maybe they'll pick up on that point too. 

I'm actually pretty confidant Netflix is not going to do that, though I kind have a fear of it. History does have a way to repeat itself. We still had to throw it out there just in case. Plus, most likely they would have to age Digory and Polly up in The Magician's Nephew or age Shasta and Aravis up in The Horse and His Boy or even age Eustace and Jill up in The Silver Chair, which I don't want either for any of the those. These are kids traveling to Narnia, which makes it unique. I don't think there's a need to age Jill or Eustace up or to age King Tirian down in The Last Battle; Eustace and Jill are 16 according to the timeline, and Tirian is between 21-25 years old. As for villainous crushes or attractions or whichever you like to call it, Rabadash and Susan are at the right age, so there wouldn't be a need to age them up or down. I don't think there's a need to age Jill up or age Rishda down; I've actually seen in movies where a villain crushing on the heroine that is twice her age. But no, I don't think romance or crushes with heroes, villains or both are to going happen. Hopefully Netflix doesn't misinterpret our discussions here.

I think we should take a lighter note and talk about what we hope to see.

As I've said, the scene with Emeth could easily get cut out. Having multiple endings is a very hard thing to do. Who knows? Narnia coming to end could easily be another 20 minutes. It would be the easiest thing to rush through the plot, and after all of the characters from Narnia's past are together again, "Okay, we can end the movie there and start the credits." No, we should take time what a dark place Narnia has been in, and take time to feel the joy when Narnia is renewed. Not only that, but we should see Aslan from Emeth's perspective, showing that hope is offered not just to Narnians but to Telmarines, Archenlanders, and Calormenes.

Posted by: @courtenay

I just REALLY, honestly, hope to goodness Netflix won't throw in any romantic relationships (or even hints of ones) that aren't in the books already. I would have absolutely no problem with them showing a BIT of attraction between Aravis and Shasta / Cor, who of course do end up marrying each other once they're a bit older. Not blatantly in-your-face stuff — I really don't think it would be right to have them openly professing to have feelings for each other, let alone kissing, at any point during the narrative. The whole funny side of it is that they appear to almost hate each other for much of the story, gradually progressing to a sort of grudging liking, culminating in Lewis's observation that made me laugh even as a very non-romantic seven-year-old first-time reader:

Aravis also had many quarrels (and, I'm afraid, even fights) with Cor, but they always made it up again: so that years later, when they were grown up, they were so used to quarrelling and making it up again that they got married so as to go on doing it more conveniently.

(Just as the old saying goes — I've seen a few versions of it and don't know who first said it: "Marriage is finding that one special person you can annoy for the rest of your life." )

My point is, it'd be great if the scriptwriters can show a few hints of Shasta and Aravis having that kind of relationship coming on subtly — they fight all the time and genuinely believe, on the surface, that they can't stand each other, but there's a sense that, deep down, in a way neither of them really recognises yet, they wouldn't want to lose each other...  

 

I totally agree with you here! I too fear random romances put where there shouldn't be, but showing little subtle hints of it where canon.... which, the only canon main characters that ended up in a romantic relationship with each other, are Shasta and Aravis. I actually always found them to have that sort of chemistry when I read the books (so when they were mentioned that they got married, I wasn't the least bit surprised...Lewis' description was both funny and cute lol), whilst other characters like Digory and Polly, and Eustace and Jill, felt more sibling-esque. And should stay that way! It'd be nice to see more stories with just friendships (and that's coming from a girl that loves the whole friends-to-lovers thing, but not all friends have to become romantically involved!) So hopefully these new adaptions will stick closer to canon. Friendships should remain friendships, and any hint of romance should be because it's canon to the books... which really would only be Shasta and Aravis, Caspian and the star's daughter, and that's about it... aside from the two one-sided obsessions you mentioned which will definitely be fun to see played xD

Posted by: @kokoro-hane

I too fear random romances put where there shouldn't be, but showing little subtle hints of it where canon.... which, the only canon main characters that ended up in a romantic relationship with each other, are Shasta and Aravis. I actually always found them to have that sort of chemistry when I read the books (so when they were mentioned that they got married, I wasn't the least bit surprised...Lewis' description was both funny and cute lol),

To a certain point, it's totally fine to show a hint of something between a guy and a girl in movies. However, I think often times, it's love at first sight. While it's true that Shasta and Aravis end up together, it shouldn't have to be love at first sight. Real life isn't like that if you think about it. You can still show a hint of something, that they like each other, that's okay. I think it would be easy to advertise The Horse and His Boy with Shasta and Aravis as a couple. That is, unless someone were to say, "Hey don't do the obvious thing. It will be better if we do it this way.

Posted by: @kokoro-hane

whilst other characters like Digory and Polly, and Eustace and Jill, felt more sibling-esque. And should stay that way! It'd be nice to see more stories with just friendships (and that's coming from a girl that loves the whole friends-to-lovers thing, but not all friends have to become romantically involved!)

It's not very often we see a guy and a girl have a close friendship and that's it in movies. It's often done for the purpose of marketing. So it would be easy to romance equals marketing. It doesn't have to be, though. Fairly recently, Sherlock is a very successful commercial series, but it explored on the deep friendship of Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson. So it shows that it's friendship, not romance.

Posted by: @kokoro-hane

So hopefully these new adaptions will stick closer to canon. Friendships should remain friendships, and any hint of romance should be because it's canon to the books... which really would only be Shasta and Aravis, Caspian and the star's daughter, and that's about it... aside from the two one-sided obsessions you mentioned which will definitely be fun to see played xD

Plus, they would probably have to age Digory and Polly, Eustace and Jill, and Shasta and Aravis up. I don't think we want that either, because these are kids. I kind of like the idea of kids traveling to Narnia (okay, Shasta and Aravis travel from Calormen to Narnia in the world of Narnia, but it still counts).

You can feel free to argue with me, but I don't think romance of any will happened. Maybe they could still give a hint of Digory and Polly liking each other or a hint of Tirian and Eustace both liking Jill or something. I don't know. I don't think they're going to do that.

Posted by: @jasmine_tarkheena

 

You can feel free to argue with me, but I don't think romance of any will happened. Maybe they could still give a hint of Digory and Polly liking each other or a hint of Tirian and Eustace both liking Jill or something. I don't know. I don't think they're going to do that.

 

I hope they don't do that lol, since by canon, that wasn't in the book and if I recall, Digory and Polly remained unmarried. And yeah I highly appreciate deep friendship stories which Narnia is a perfect series to explore that! 

Posted by: @kokoro-hane

I hope they don't do that lol, since by canon, that wasn't in the book and if I recall, Digory and Polly remained unmarried.

Yes, that's true — Digory as "the Professor" in LWW is introduced as "a bachelor", and in LB, the younger friends of Narnia refer to Polly as "Miss Plummer", so clearly they both remained unmarried. It'd be nice if Netflix could keep that little detail in as a nod to the fact that not everyone HAS to find a life-partner in order to have a happy and fulfilling life! And indeed, that not every boy-girl friendship must be destined to turn into romance...  

(There's another little detail I've always appreciated in HHB — the fact that Bree and Hwin later get married "but not to each other". Again, proof that just because two characters have had a thrilling adventure together, it doesn't necessarily mean their lives must be joined in a deeper way — and in the case of those two Talking Horses, I can't imagine that sensible, quiet, modest Hwin would ever have wanted to spend the rest of her life with loud, blustering, conceited (yet lovable) Bree!!   I hope the Netflix screenwriters don't decide to go against canon with them either.)