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Portrayal of The Calormenes

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Pattertwigs Pal
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I do not believe for a minute that the Chronicles are racists. (this is a good resource.) I have plenty of logical reasons why this is not the case.  However, I realizes that logic will likely not change people's minds (what do they teach them in these schools) so the main question is how to portray the Calormenes so as to offend and upset the least amount of people. No matter what the filmmakers do people will be upset or offended.
Before I  go into my thoughts On that subject, I want to respond to a few posts.
Posted by: @jasmine_tarkheena

In a movie, wouldn't that be a great reveal that Aravis and Emeth are not the only Calormenes in Aslan's Country? It could show that not all them liked living in the culture of Calormen or being under the Tisroc's rules in HHB or even being under Rishda's rule in LB.

I definitely think this should be in the movie. "Talking Beasts, Dwarfs, Satyrs, Fauns, Giants, Calormenes, men from Archenland, Monopods, and strange unearthy things...." all looked into Aslan's face and made the choice to love him or hate him. I'm sure plenty of Calormenes chose to love him and plenty of Narnians and Archenlanders chose to hate him.

Posted by: @azog-the-defiler

Even if someone wrote about something that is wrong by our standards, I don't think that I can really judge someone who lived 70 years ago and who had different life experiences. It's unlikely that the portrayal would've pricked his conscience and he probably didn't think about how it would sound to someone from one of those cultures that he was stereotyping. I don't want to be judged after I'm dead for things I didn't know were wrong, so I'll show the same consideration to others.

I wish more people would understand this.

Posted by: @courtenay

The simple fact is that if you play the Calormenes "by the book", so to speak, you have the straight-up scenario of noble, benevolent, light-skinned, Western-European-looking heroes who are clearly meant to be Christians (let's face it, it's no great secret who Aslan is intended to be), versus (mostly) cruel, scheming, dark-skinned, Middle-Eastern-or-Indian-looking villains who bear a suspicious resemblance to Muslims.

While I agree that many of the heroes are "light-skinned, Western-European-looking," many villains are also "light-skinned, Western-European-looking." Yes, Aslan is what Lewis supposed Jesus might be like in a different world, but there is no indication that "Tash" is based off of Allah and there are many cultural things that are in direct opposition to the Islam. I could see a Christian writer setting up a supposition where one race was meant to be Christians and another race was meant to be Muslims but the Chronicles of Narnia is not that story. Lewis mentions  many positive things about the Calormen culture and many negative things about English and Narnian culture.

On to my thoughts. There are two problems with portraying the Calormenes: Use actors of color and be accused of racism or use only white actors and be accused of white washing and racism for not using actors of color. The more I think about it, they more I think it would be a good idea for the filmmakers to start with acknowledging the elephant in the room. HHB and LB could start with a disclaimer. Something along the lines of this:

None of the cultures in this movie represent any modern cultures. We do not believe that skin color makes people good or evil. There are good Calomenes and evil Narnians, Archenlanders, and other non-Calormenes. What makes the characters do bad things are traits common to all races in Narnia and on Earth: greed, lust for power, and selfishness. We were thrilled to use many delightful actors of color in making this movie. For more information visit (Url for a website discussing the representation of evil in the Chronicles of Narnia.)

I would really like the movies to show the parallels between Calormenes and other characters people, etc.

  1. Lasaraleen and Susan: both are highly interested in clothes and not the bravest.
  2. Arsheesh and Corin: Arsheesh boxes Shasta's ears, and Corin knocks him down. Corin seems to think violence is the answer to problems and that seems to be a large part of Calormene culture as well.
  3. Aravis and Rilian: Both escape forced marriages.
  4. Rabadash and Eustace: both are spoiled and make situations they are in worse than they are. Rabadash storms around when he is captured and Eustace imagines storms on the Dawn Treader.
  5. Caspian and Rabadash: Both throw fits / show temper when they don't get what they want. (Caspian when he wants to go to Aslan's Country)
  6. Telarmarines, Calormenes, and Jadis: Both invade Narnia, leaders are not kind to their subjects, family members kill other family members to get to rule. (Telmarines must be based off of Europeans because Caspian has blond hair and Pruniprisma has red hair).
  7. Charn/ Jadis and Calormen: Charn sounds a lot worse that Calormen.

I went through many aspects of the books and tried to figure out what could stay and would couldn't.

Can stay:

  1. Turbans: Turbans predate Islam and have been used in a lot of different cultures.
  2. Turbans wrapped around helmets: I can't find any culture that did that. I think the spike in the helmets would be okay too since German helmets also had spikes.
  3. The food - must make it look very appealing and set it against the goat milk. (I would much rather have Calormen food that some of the Narnian and English foods mentioned goat milk being one.)
  4. The hanging gardens: I am really interested in seeing these. The hanging gardens in our world also predate Islam and Christianity.
  5. The way they speak: The Narnian rulers also use a rather formal formal form of English.
  6. The quoting of the poets: All cultures have wise sayings they quote. The Raven uses several of them.

Have to go or be changed:

  1. scimitar: An European term representation many different curved swords. Often thought to be a weapon used by Muslims. 
  2. Most of the armor design: Similar to the armor of the Ottoman Empire.
  3. Crescents: The money will not be able to be called that as a crescent moon is part of the symbol of Islam. The money probably won't have to be named at all.
  4. Some of the clothing particularly the shoes with the toes turned up.
  5. Negative references to dark skin or names related to it.
  6. Changing skin color as a disguise. Hopefully, the Calormene armor will have face coverings. Or they could wear dark beards. 

Should be emphasized and / or subtle ways to separate the Calormene religion is not Islam and thus the Calormenes do not represent Muslims.

  1. Include the scene where Corin gets the guards drunk. Muslims do not drink.
  2. Highlight that the Calormenes worship many gods (but make sure they do not look like any Hindu gods).
  3. In Tashbaan show a butcher shop with pork and beef. (This will separate the Calormenes from Muslims and Hindus)
  4. The villainy of the Narnians in the Last Battle. Yes, the Calormene's invade but with the help of the Narnians and if some Narnians had not turned away from Aslan so far as to have a donkey impersonate him and believe that Tash and Aslan are the same, the outcome might have been very different.
  5. Aslan's statement: "I and [Tash] are of such different kinds that no service which is vile can be done to me, and none which is not vile can be done to him." That is a very inclusive statement. Aslan's whole scene with Emeth points to an inclusiveness that shows that all Calormenes are given a chance to show good characteristics.

I don't think it is fair to look at aspects of the Narnian or Calormen cultures that clearly do not represent modern times and use them as a reflection of current cultures or people. I'm white and of European decent but I don't want people to assume that I act and speak like the Narnians do. I think the way Susan says, "It was naught, playmate, very naught of thee to use us so." is more ridiculous than the way the Calormenes speak. At least the Calormenes sort of poke fun at the way they speak and their formalities for lack of a better word. The conversation between the Tisroc and his son has multiple examples.

However they do it, there must be a way for Bree to tell by looking at Shasta that he is not a Calormene.

I would be disappointed and likely not to see the movie if Aravis is not a girl of color. There is a push for strong females of color in the media. Child marriage is a world wide problem, and more girls of color are married as children than white girls. It is important for people to see that this is not acceptable and for girls of color to see someone they can identify with escaping from that life. I would love to see some of the profits from the movie go to an organization that works to stop child marriage.

I could go on but then, this might seem like an essay and nobody would want to read it. Giggle   And I've been working on this post for over 3 hours so I had better get on to something else.

Posted by: @icarus

is there something about the Calormen that people find genuinely interesting and unique that you would like to see depicted on-screen?

I love that they are taught story telling instead of essay writing. I want to see the hanging towers of Tashbaan and all the gardens. In fact the whole architecture of Tashbaan sounds nice. I've seen plenty of castles and woods and while they are beautiful, I am ready to see other things. I love the way they have formalities they must say and yet Rabadash says them in such a way that the intent is negated. I love how the Tisroc and Rabadash say things without saying them. The clothing of Narnia hasn't interested me as much as the helmets wrapped in turbans and Aravis's costume as the slave girl.

 


NW sister to Movie Aristotle & daughter of the King

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Posted : June 3, 2023 7:01 pm
Azog the Defiler
(@azog-the-defiler)
NarniaWeb Nut
Posted by: @twigs

On to my thoughts. There are two problems with portraying the Calormenes: Use actors of color and be accused of racism or use only white actors and be accused of white washing and racism for not using actors of color.

I personally think that portraying the movie characters similarly to how they were in the book would be the least offensive thing that could be done. I believe that many of the diverse people who would be watching would be offended if they were intentionally left out.

 

Posted by: @twigs

Have to go or be changed:

  1. scimitar: An European term representation many different curved swords. Often thought to be a weapon used by Muslims. 

 

I believe that American officer's swords were based off of the swords from the Barbary Corsairs, so it isn't necessarily Islam-specific.

 

Posted by: @twigs

there is no indication that "Tash" is based off of Allah and there are many cultural things that are in direct opposition to the Islam.

That is another point. I don't know of any recent Eastern religion that demanded human sacrifice. The ancient Canaanites did, but so did the Germanic peoples as well as the Celts so one could say it was inspired by any of these groups specifically. 

 

Posted by: @twigs

Child marriage is a world wide problem, and more girls of color are married as children than white girls. It is important for people to see that this is not acceptable and for girls of color to see someone they can identify with escaping from that life. I would love to see some of the profits from the movie go to an organization that works to stop child marriage.

 

That is one theme that should definitely be portrayed carefully since it may not be something that every family wants to discuss with their 7-year-old.

Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters.

-Benjamin Franklin

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Posted : June 3, 2023 8:01 pm
Pattertwigs Pal
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Posted by: @azog-the-defiler

I personally think that portraying the movie characters similarly to how they were in the book would be the least offensive thing that could be done. I believe that many of the diverse people who would be watching would be offended if they were intentionally left out.

 I agree which is why I worked so hard to think of ways to include diverse people without negative associations to their diversity.

Posted by: @azog-the-defiler

 I believe that American officer's swords were based off of the swords from the Barbary Corsairs, so it isn't necessarily Islam-specific.

 I didn't intend to imply scimitars were Islam specific but that people tend to associate them with Islam. I was running into some fatigue at that part of my post and was having difficulty with wording. Scimitar is a broad term that refers to a variety of curved swords from various cultures. I couldn't find any concrete evidence that they pre-date Islam which is one of the standards I am using to decide if things from this world can be used by the Calormenes. Also, Saudi Arabia has a scimitar on its flag and 2 on its emblem. The main religion in Saudi Arabia is Islam, so to be safe a new sword design is probably best.

Posted by: @azog-the-defiler

That is another point. I don't know of any recent Eastern religion that demanded human sacrifice. The ancient Canaanites did, but so did the Germanic peoples as well as the Celts so one could say it was inspired by any of these groups

Yes. I don't think the films should go so far as to show human sacrifice but I wouldn't mind a hint at it.

 

 


NW sister to Movie Aristotle & daughter of the King

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Posted : June 3, 2023 8:53 pm
Azog the Defiler
(@azog-the-defiler)
NarniaWeb Nut

@twigs

Posted by: @twigs

I was running into some fatigue at that part of my post and was having difficulty with wording. Scimitar is a broad term that refers to a variety of curved swords from various cultures.

Ah, okay. I understand. I personally don't think that anyone would think about it quite that far since it could just as easily be associated with a pirate's cutlass or a cavalryman's saber. The scimitar is rather iconic to the Calormene culture so I would be sad to see it go.

 

Posted by: @twigs

Yes. I don't think the films should go so far as to show human sacrifice but I wouldn't mind a hint at it.

I think directly portraying that would probably be disturbing to many viewers. Maybe alluding to it could work, at least for a flashback to King Tirian's trip to Tashbaan, but I don't know how it would fit in The Horse and His Boy.

Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters.

-Benjamin Franklin

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Posted : June 3, 2023 9:03 pm
Courtenay
(@courtenay)
NarniaWeb Fanatic Hospitality Committee
Posted by: @twigs
I do not believe for a minute that the Chronicles are racists. (this is a good resource.) I have plenty of logical reasons why this is not the case.  However, I realizes that logic will likely not change people's minds (what do they teach them in these schools) so the main question is how to portray the Calormenes so as to offend and upset the least amount of people. No matter what the filmmakers do people will be upset or offended.
Totally agree — I don't believe the Chronicles are racist either, and I love that Devin Brown article and have shared it with others more than once as well.
Posted by: @courtenay

The simple fact is that if you play the Calormenes "by the book", so to speak, you have the straight-up scenario of noble, benevolent, light-skinned, Western-European-looking heroes who are clearly meant to be Christians (let's face it, it's no great secret who Aslan is intended to be), versus (mostly) cruel, scheming, dark-skinned, Middle-Eastern-or-Indian-looking villains who bear a suspicious resemblance to Muslims.

While I agree that many of the heroes are "light-skinned, Western-European-looking," many villains are also "light-skinned, Western-European-looking." Yes, Aslan is what Lewis supposed Jesus might be like in a different world, but there is no indication that "Tash" is based off of Allah and there are many cultural things that are in direct opposition to the Islam. I could see a Christian writer setting up a supposition where one race was meant to be Christians and another race was meant to be Muslims but the Chronicles of Narnia is not that story. Lewis mentions  many positive things about the Calormen culture and many negative things about English and Narnian culture.

I completely agree here too, and I also don't believe the Calormenes are intended to be Muslims. I said "bear a suspicious resemblance" deliberately (rather than repeating "are clearly meant to be"), simply because unfortunately plenty of critics assume that the Calormenes, as the dark-skinned, desert-dwelling, war-mongering, exotic "Other" with which the Narnians are contrasted, must obviously be "Muslim stand-ins" (I've seen that term used in at least one negative commentary, I forget where). Especially if the critics in question are already offended by Lewis being a Christian and incorporating Christian ideas and influences in his stories. Basically, they take it that he WAS writing a "good Christians versus evil Muslims" allegory, even though he actually wasn't.

What I was referring to as problematic is the fact that in the two books that directly involve the Calormenes, most of the good guys are light-skinned and most of the bad guys are dark-skinned. There's definitely far more nuance to it all than that, as you rightly point out and as Devin Brown discusses in detail. But on the face of it, seeing that portrayal in a film or TV series, most modern-day viewers are just going to pounce on that trope and scream "RACISM!!!" Even if Lewis didn't intend it that way — and I also don't believe he did — that is what people will see on the surface, and that is how too many of them will react, if the two sides are "colour-coded" (by skin colour) as definitely as they are in the books. And most likely many won't stop to look for anything deeper or subtler than that. That's why I said, no modern-day director is going to agree to do it that way.

Hopefully, if or when HHB and LB do ever get adapted for the screen, the person or people in charge will have enough love for and understanding of the books and their deeper messages to find some way of getting those messages across in a way that truly preserves the spirit of the Chronicles, without giving reactionary critics anything substantial to snipe at! That won't be easy — as you say, there's always going to be someone offended by something somehow, no matter what the directors do — but I do believe there must be a way. At least, I hope there is.

I also agree with your other points, but don't have time to reply to them all individually — just wanted to let you know what you wrote is much appreciated!! Smile  

"Now you are a lioness," said Aslan. "And now all Narnia will be renewed."
(Prince Caspian)

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Posted : June 3, 2023 9:16 pm
Col Klink
(@col-klink)
NarniaWeb Junkie

@twigs I really appreciate all the research you did categorizing which elements of Calormene culture in the books could be considered Islamic and which not. However, I feel like even if the adapters follow your list religiously to avoid coming across as specifically out to "stick it to" to Muslims, people will still assume that that was the intention. Very few people are going to do that much reading to ascertain what distinguishes the Islamic from the generically non-Western. 

Posted by: @twigs

The more I think about it, they more I think it would be a good idea for the filmmakers to start with acknowledging the elephant in the room. HHB and LB could start with a disclaimer.

I would be fine with this, even happy. But there probably would be people who would be offended. Maybe not the same people that the disclaimer would be trying to placate but some people. I vaguely remember when Disney+ put warnings on certain episodes of The Muppet Show about offensive cultural stereotypes in them, there were a few people on the internet who were annoyed. I don't really remember or understand why. It sounds pretty much like MPAA ratings before a movie if you ask me. (If anyone reading is someone who was offended by such disclaimers, feel free to private message me to explain why. I'm willing to read your case with an open mind. Smile

Posted by: @twigs

Aslan's statement: "I and [Tash] are of such different kinds that no service which is vile can be done to me, and none which is not vile can be done to him." That is a very inclusive statement. Aslan's whole scene with Emeth points to an inclusiveness that shows that all Calormenes are given a chance to show good characteristics.

While the scene, as a whole, could be described as an example of inclusivity, I'm surprised that you picked that quote as an example. It basically says that the god of Calormen is so completely evil that no one can truly serve him by doing good. It's hard to think of a more devastating indictment of the whole culture. Giggle  

 

For better or worse-for who knows what may unfold from a chrysalis?-hope was left behind.
-The God Beneath the Sea by Leon Garfield & Edward Blishen check out my new blog!

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Posted : June 5, 2023 1:01 pm
icarus and Courtenay liked
Col Klink
(@col-klink)
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Posted by: @azog-the-defiler

In that case, in spite of Arsheesh's harsh upbringing of Cor/Shasta, he evidently had the humanity to save a child from starving in a boat. We're told about how he would box Shasta's ears if he didn't provide satisfactory work, but for the first 4 or 5 years of his life, it wouldn't have been possible for him to provide any work to Arsheesh at all, so the fisherman would presumably have paid for his upbringing out of his own pockets without having any immediate benefit from the relationship.

Immediate benefit maybe, but I'm pretty sure his motives were the eventual benefits. Wink  

Posted by: @icarus

I am not necessarily sure you can use the handful of examples in Emmet and Aravis as disproving the rule that "All Calormen are Bad", since these characters seem to be defined within the story as being "exceptions to the rule", which obviously therefore predicates the rule existing in the first place.

I can understand this point of view as far as Emeth goes, but Aravis has a much bigger role in the story of HHB than just the token good Calormene. She's a big mover and shaker in the plot, has a major character arc and among fans of the book, she's one of the most popular characters.

That's something I'd really appreciate more critics noticing. I don't really mind people being offended by the portrayal of the Calormenes in The Horse and his Boy. Even if they're wrong, it's nice that they care. But I wish they'd realize that the reason people love the book isn't because they hate dark skinned people or anything Middle Eastern. All the fans I've heard praise HHB, mention things like enjoying the main characters, enjoying the exciting plot, loving the idea that bad luck may turn out to be good luck in the long run, the theme of arrogance vs. humility, God's providence, etc. I don't hear a lot of fans praising it for "demonstrating" how bad certain real life people groups are. Even an author I've read who does believe that the Calormenes were meant to evoke Muslims, seems to see this more as C. S. Lewis urging his Western readers to emulate the Narnians and Archenlanders by being friendly and humble, not as him urging them to declare war on the Calormenes. Even if a reader specifically enjoys the atmosphere of Calormen, that might not automatically mean they hate non-Western cultures. Everyone loves a cool villain, and it could be seen as a kind of compliment. 

TLDR: hate the work, not the fans. 

 

This post was modified 11 months ago 2 times by Col Klink

For better or worse-for who knows what may unfold from a chrysalis?-hope was left behind.
-The God Beneath the Sea by Leon Garfield & Edward Blishen check out my new blog!

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Posted : June 5, 2023 1:18 pm
Jasmine
(@jasmine_tarkheena)
NarniaWeb Guru

I don't think Narnia is meant to be racist or sexist (there's an whole article about that subject on Narniaweb: Are The Chronicles of Narnia Sexist and Racist?)

There are people of all nationalities who actually enjoy the Narnia series (take a look at how many languages the books has been translated to). Though it's hard to believe that people are so prejudiced, even today.

I never think of Emeth as someone with a different skin color or a different nationality. I just think of him as a noble and humble soldier who longs for the truth. It's the reason why he's my favorite character. It almost makes me sad that some might be prejudiced towards him. 

Again, I don't think Narnia is meant to be racist. Yet I can see that it's going to be a challenge for a movie or series to depict the Calormenes without anyone being offended.

Hopefully no one of color is offended reading our discussions here.

"And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me beloved."
(Emeth, The Last Battle)
https://escapetoreality.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/aslan-and-emeth2.jpg

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Topic starter Posted : June 5, 2023 6:22 pm
Pattertwigs Pal
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Posted by: @azog-the-defiler

Ah, okay. I understand. I personally don't think that anyone would think about it quite that far since it could just as easily be associated with a pirate's cutlass or a cavalryman's saber. The scimitar is rather iconic to the Calormene culture so I would be sad to see it go.

I like it too but the wikipedia article on scimitars mentioned that the accusation has been made that the scimitar has been used to symbolize "Muslim barbarity." Is the general public going to think that? Probably not but some people might.

Posted by: @col-klink

While the scene, as a whole, could be described as an example of inclusivity, I'm surprised that you picked that quote as an example. It basically says that the god of Calormen is so completely evil that no one can truly serve him by doing good. It's hard to think of a more devastating indictment of the whole culture. Giggle  

It was for the simple reason that that quote was available online and easy to copy. Tongue Also, it also shows that Narnians who do evil in Aslan's name are serving Tash. Also, I was going for the idea that many Christians think that quote and idea are too inclusive, but wasn't really sure how to word that. Still not sure. Also, can a god that requires human sacrifice be considered good? I take the quote to mean that people were misled in whom they were serving - whether for good or for evil.

Posted by: @jasmine_tarkheena

Hopefully no one of color is offended reading our discussions here.

I think we have been respectful. If someone of color is offended, I hope they will post here and respectfully let us know what they think about the issues at hand. My sister and I were discussing this topic. She reminded me that many Middle Eastern people consider themselves white. This is the U.S.A. census definition: "White. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa. It includes people who indicate their race as "White" or report responses such as German, Irish, English, Italian, Lebanese, and Egyptian. The category also includes groups such as Polish, French, Iranian, Slavic, Cajun, Chaldean, etc."  My sister also wondered if people, in general, remember that not all Muslins have dark skin.

I have always related the Calormenes and the culture to times that predate Christianity and Islam. Lewis mentions hanging gardens which makes me think ancient Babylon. If I am remembering correctly, Babylon was a rather cruel society. Some people think that the hanging gardens were actually in Nineveh. I'm pretty sure I learned in history class that Nineveh was considered an evil city by other people. Interestingly, Nineveh was inhabited by Assyrians at the time of the hanging gardens and modern Assyrians are Christians. Any similarity to cultures on earth must be shown to be ancient as that was a cruel time. While the Calormenes seem more advanced in some respects to the Narnians (they have organized religion and it seems many more cities and towns) it is much farther behind the Narnians in human rights. I wonder if things would have been different in the Last Battle if the Narnians had had organized religion with more truths about Alsan than "He is not a tame lion, but he is good." Would they have been as easily taken in?

One of my group of friends suggested that Last Battle should be adapted before HHB. I don't remember the reason why and in general I don't agree, but I do wonder if it would help to show Emeth and other Calormenes in Aslan's Country before showing an up close depiction of Calormen. Also, it is critical that it is shown that Tashbaan is in Aslan's Country.

 


NW sister to Movie Aristotle & daughter of the King

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Posted : June 5, 2023 10:33 pm
Jasmine
(@jasmine_tarkheena)
NarniaWeb Guru

While the Calormene characters should be portrayed right, it's possible that a movie or series would want to expand on each of their role a bit.

The Horse And His Boy-

A movie or series might give Aravis's stepmother a name. While I wouldn't want her to be the evil stepmother stereotype, a movie or series could possibly do more with her, even on how she came into the picture. I'm not saying that they should or shouldn't give her a name. It would seem that a movie or series might do that.

A movie or series could incorporate where Rabadash visits Cair Paravel into the narrative. There, we might see him as a seemingly nice and charming guy, and Susan is swept off her feet. Then later on, we watch his true nature being revealed. It could actually make an interesting twist. 

If a movie or series decides to keep Ahoshta, well, there's the scene where Rabadash is kicking him around. Perhaps just show a close up shot of Rabadash and we hear a yelp from Ahoshta. Then we see a shot of Ahoshta groveling.

If a movie or series decides to cut out Ahoshta and have Anradin be the one that Aravis would be married off to, she will probably be given a different reason to hate the marriage arrangement. Perhaps because he is cruel and arrogant. She is arrogant herself, but she probably wouldn't like the idea of being married off to a cruel and arrogant Tarkaan. Shasta and Aravis don't even have to know that they're running away from the same person (to whom he has to be a slave and she has to be a wife). Audiences can still figure it out even if the movie or series don't address it.

A movie or series might do something more with Lasaraleen. It is mentioned that she tends to talk a lot about the latest parties or the newest dress she's got. So a movie or a series might do something about that.

The Last Battle-

A a movie or series could do something about Rishda's disbelief in Tash. In the BBC Radio 4 adaptation, the prologue had Rishda making a petition for Tash and makes a monologue about his devised plan. He says in a monologue, "If I bring about the end of Narnia, it will be by my own strength and cunning, by not the might of some gruesome vulture headed god. But I will give Tash the credit, since the Tisroc will need someone to rule Narnia for him. And who better than the servant of the devout believer in Tash?" While the monologue may not work as well for a series or a movie, I could see how a movie or series would do something about his disbelief in Tash.

A movie or series could do more with Emeth. Perhaps make him sympathetic and conflicted, where he has to work by lies and trickery. He could even been sympathetic when he sees how Rishda is treating the Narnians. He could also feel the anger when he learns that Rishda doesn't believe in Tash. "How could he dare to mock him?" He would keep quiet for a moment, until he volunteers to go into the stable to see Tash was really in there.

My apologies for rambling on. I’m not making any suggestions; I’m just throwing out some possibilities. 

"And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me beloved."
(Emeth, The Last Battle)
https://escapetoreality.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/aslan-and-emeth2.jpg

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Topic starter Posted : June 6, 2023 6:44 pm
Eustace
(@eustace)
NarniaWeb Junkie
Posted by: @jasmine_tarkheena

While the Calormene characters should be portrayed right, it's possible that a movie or series would want to expand on each of their role a bit.

The Horse And His Boy-

A movie or series might give Aravis's stepmother a name. While I wouldn't want her to be the evil stepmother stereotype, a movie or series could possibly do more with her, even on how she came into the picture. I'm not saying that they should or shouldn't give her a name. It would seem that a movie or series might do that.

A movie or series could incorporate where Rabadash visits Cair Paravel into the narrative. There, we might see him as a seemingly nice and charming guy, and Susan is swept off her feet. Then later on, we watch his true nature being revealed. It could actually make an interesting twist. 

To add on to the HHB ideas, which by the way, @jasmine_tarkheena, I absolutely love, I think that they should show Aravis's brother who she cared about dearly. Personally, if you show him being a good brother to Aravis, most people will assume he was a great Calormene in general. 

This post was modified 10 months ago by Eustace

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Posted : June 21, 2023 2:50 am
Courtenay liked
Jasmine
(@jasmine_tarkheena)
NarniaWeb Guru

@eustace 

There's an idea about Aravis's brother. It is mentioned that the older brother died in one of the battles and the younger brother is only a boy. It would be likely that after their mother died, she may have acted like a mother figure to her younger brother. That is, until their father re-married.

I think most Narnia fans would agree with me that I wouldn't want Aravis's stepmother to be the evil stepmother stereotype that are so common in fairy tales (notably Snow White and Cinderella). It is never mentioned how she got into the picture. It could have been arranged, as Aravis's was about to be.

So there's an idea about Aravis's brother. Hey, he could even end up being in Aslan's country in The Last Battle as well.

"And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me beloved."
(Emeth, The Last Battle)
https://escapetoreality.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/aslan-and-emeth2.jpg

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Topic starter Posted : June 28, 2023 6:48 pm
Col Klink
(@col-klink)
NarniaWeb Junkie
Posted by: @jasmine_tarkheena

There's an idea about Aravis's brother. It is mentioned that the older brother died in one of the battles and the younger brother is only a boy. It would be likely that after their mother died, she may have acted like a mother figure to her younger brother. That is, until their father re-married.

As I remember, Jasmine, you were worried that an adaptation of The Last Battle would drag because of the ending's complicated and episodic nature. Well, it seems to me that your ideas for The Horse and his Boy would lead to the opposite problem for the adaptation: too many beginnings. Why would we want an entire episode about Aravis's dead brother whose main function in the story is to provide her with a disguise and would be otherwise irrelevant for the rest of the story?

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Posted : July 6, 2023 4:30 pm
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Jasmine
(@jasmine_tarkheena)
NarniaWeb Guru
Posted by: @col-klink

As I remember, Jasmine, you were worried that an adaptation of The Last Battle would drag because of the ending's complicated and episodic nature. Well, it seems to me that your ideas for The Horse and his Boy would lead to the opposite problem for the adaptation: too many beginnings.

That is because it is super tricky to have multiple climaxes. I guess the same could be said for so many beginnings.

I think it's because a movie can't just have someone outright narrate what has happened- a movie would have to show it. In the case of The Horse And His Boy, they would simply have to show Aravis's backstory instead of just having her tell it.

It would actually be too tedious in a book if it actually cut back and forth between what is going on with Shasta about to be sold as a slave and Aravis about to be married off. Though I think it's possible for a movie to do that.

Why would we want an entire episode about Aravis's dead brother whose main function in the story is to provide her with a disguise and would be otherwise irrelevant for the rest of the story?

There doesn't have to be an episode about her brother, but we could see how much she cared about him. He could even already be dead, and she can feel the sadness and how she missed him.

 

"And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me beloved."
(Emeth, The Last Battle)
https://escapetoreality.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/aslan-and-emeth2.jpg

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Topic starter Posted : July 6, 2023 4:42 pm
Crunchy-P
(@queencrunchytheweeb)
NarniaWeb Regular
Posted by: @coracle

Calormenes don't have to have dark skin, like either African or South Indian people.  They can be represented by people with average European looks but with dark hair and makeup that gives a distinctly different look. 

This has worked very well in the stage productions of HHB by the Logos Theatre. 

[Incidentally, there will be a return season this summer in Washington DC at the Museum of the Bible, if you have the chance to get to it!]

Although this can work, some people might get upset about casting European actors and claim it as whitewashing. 

"Have a Narnian Day!" (ナルニアの日を過ごしましょう!)

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Posted : July 9, 2023 3:52 pm
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