Hello all!
Continuing our journey through Middle-Earth, we present to you a thread dedicated to discussing The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers.
Now that we are well into the story of The Lord of the Rings (LotR), it might be a good time to ponder questions about Tolkien’s world in general.
As we continue reading, consider the following:
- As a reader of the Narnia books, what do you enjoy about Middle-Earth?
- Are there important comparisons and contrasts you’d like to make between LotR and The Chronicles of Narnia?
- In what ways do you see the influence of Lewis and Tolkien on more modern fantasy storytellers?
- How does Tolkien expand and develop his story in these two books?*
- Do you notice anything you hadn’t before as you read (or re-read) this story?
- What themes do you find in the text?/What value(s) does this story bring to your real life?
- How are you enjoying the read so far?
And, of course, the question that people still have strong feelings about: - How well did Peter Jackson and company do adapting this story?
Answer all, any, or none of these questions, and please, please feel free to add your own questions. It’s time to discuss!
-Movie Aristotle
*Because, as you probably know, The Two Towers is technically two books, not one.
Movie Aristotle, AKA Risto
I have a lot of respect for Lewis and Tolkien.
Narnia and LOTR are similar because they both have magic rings, dwarfs, and dragons. They both have creatures taken from various mythologies. They both have creatures originally invented by Lewis and Tolkien themselves (marshwiggle and hobbit). And they both have unlikely heroes.
"And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me beloved."
(Emeth, The Last Battle)

I have a lot of respect for Lewis and Tolkien.
First of all, I totally agree!
Are there important comparisons and contrasts you’d like to make between LotR and The Chronicles of Narnia?
Now, to business. After my recent rereading of the MN, I noticed that Lewis's writing style in this book is different from that of the other chronicles(or at least I think it is different). This becomes especially noticeable during the section where Uncle Andrew is explaining to Digory about his life long obsession with magic and dark sorcery. This is one of my favorite parts of the whole chronicles, because Lewis spends pages explaining Uncle Andrew, the rings and Digory. This section bears similarities to the chapter 2 in FotR, 'Shadow of the Past', where Gandalf relates to Frodo about Isildur, Sauron, Gollum/Smeagol and all the condensed, but still massively complicated history surrounding the One Ring. Tolkien is known for his time and care to painstakingly develop a plot through description and dialog, while Lewis uses events to let the plot unfold and for you to slowly understand the situation and stakes. Neither is necessarily 'better' than the other, they both take skill, but it seems to me that Lewis leans towards the signature 'Tolkienish' style with MN. What do y'all think, I am very curious to hear your opinion on all this.
And a question of my own: Do y'all think that Gandalf would have been a worse and more powerful ring master than Sauron or not?
Child of the King: SonofStone
P.S. I am sorry if I got chapter names, page numbers or anything else wrong, I am on a road trip and I don't have access to my Narnia and LOTR books to check myself. Please correct me if I made a mistake!
Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong. Let all that you do be done in love.
1 Corinthians 16:13-14
- As a reader of the Narnia books, what do you enjoy about Middle-Earth?
I'm not sure that my enjoyment of Narnia influences what I enjoy about Middle-Earth. They are really quite different. I guess it would be they both have noble characters and use ordinary characters (children in Narnia and Hobbits in Lord of the Rings).
- Are there important comparisons and contrasts you’d like to make between LotR and The Chronicles of Narnia?
Narnia is fun because it brings in children from our world as well as a variety of myths and legends; LotR is fun because it is a complete world in itself.
- In what ways do you see the influence of Lewis and Tolkien on more modern fantasy storytellers?
Hard to say. The only more modern fantasy stories I can recall reading are the first two books in the Wingfeather Saga. Here are my thoughts on that:
Mayor Blaggus reminds me of Governor Gumpas
Music plays a very powerful role in this book as well as Middle-Earth and Magician’s Nephew.
Water from the First Well reminds me of Lucy’s Cordial
Janner, his desire for more and to travel, and his being displaced royalty reminds me of Shasta and his situation. Although Janner wanted to be king unlike Shasta who did not.
When Tink is awoken in the jail he says, “Pass the gravy.” One of the Lords in VDT says pass the mustard when they attempt to wake him.
- How does Tolkien expand and develop his story in these two books?*
Since the Fellowship has broken up, he is able to cover more ground. We get to see the Ents with Merry and Pippin. Gimili, Legolas, and Aragorn travel through Rohan. We see the dark lands around Mordor with Frodo and Sam and Gollum.
- Do you notice anything you hadn’t before as you read (or re-read) this story?
Reading LotR in one volume doesn't have a "recap" between Fellowship and Two Towers that has spoilers for the Two Towers.
This is not exactly something new I noticed but a new way to consider something. I was talking with @risto about how much I like Sam and his loyalty. He mentioned a youtube video he had seen that opines that Sam was too protective of Frodo and his protectiveness ruined Gollum's chance at redemption. (If I didn't get that exactly right, Risto, please correct me.)
As I was finishing Two Towers, I played close attention to the relationship between the three of them as well as Gollum's actions. I was surprised to find that after Gollum's initial anger at Frodo's tricks there wasn't any change in his behavior to suggest that he was looking forward to his evil scheme with Shelob. The movie clearly shows Gollum's wanting to hurt is master right after that.
I'm assuming the passage in question is the following one. (From near the end of the chapter "The Stairs of Cirth Ungol" What do you think? Is Sam somehow to blame? (I have opinions but want to see what other people think before I state them. Plus I really ought to be having dinner and washing dishes.)
And so Gollum found them hours later, when he returned, crawling and creeping down the path out of the gloom ahead. Sam sat propped against the stone, his head dropping sideways and his breathing heavy. In his lap lay Frodo’s head, drowned deep in sleep; upon his white forehead lay one of Sam’s brown hands, and the other lay softly upon his master’s breast. Peace was in both their faces.
Gollum looked at them. A strange expression passed over his lean hungry face. The gleam faded from his eyes, and they went dim and grey, old and tired. A spasm of pain seemed to twist him, and he turned away, peering back up towards the pass, shaking his head, as if engaged in some interior debate. Then he came back, and slowly putting out a trembling hand, very cautiously he touched Frodo’s knee – but almost the touch was a caress. For a fleeting moment, could one of the sleepers have seen him, they would have thought that they beheld an old weary hobbit, shrunken by the years that had carried him far beyond his time, beyond friends and kin, and the fields and streams of youth, an old starved pitiable thing.
But at that touch Frodo stirred and cried out softly in his sleep, and immediately Sam was wide awake. The first thing he saw was Gollum – ‘pawing at master,’ as he thought. ‘Hey you! He said roughly. ‘What are you up to?’
‘Nothing, nothing,’ said Gollum softly. Nice Master!’
‘I daresay,’ said Sam. ‘But where have you been to -sneaking off and sneaking back, you old villain?’
Gollum withdrew himself, and a green glint flickered under his heavy lids. Almost spider-like he looked now, crouched back on his bent limbs with his protruding eyes. The fleeting moment had passed, beyond recall. ‘Sneaking, sneaking!’ he hissed. ‘Hobbits always so polite, yes. O nice hobbits! Sméagol brings them up secret ways that nobody else could find. Tired he is, thirsty he is, yes thirsty; and he guides them and he searches for paths, and they say sneak, sneak. Very nice friends, O yes my precious, very nice.’
Sam felt a bit remorseful, though not more trustful. Sorry,’ he said. I’m sorry, but you startled me out of my sleep. And I shouldn’t have been sleeping, and that made me a bit sharp. But Mr. Frodo, he’s that tired, I asked him to have a wink; and well, that’s how it is. Sorry. But where have you been to?
‘Sneaking,’ said Gollum, and the green glint did not leave his eyes.
- What themes do you find in the text?/What value(s) does this story bring to your real life?
Loyalty, putting aside self for a greater cause,
- How are you enjoying the read so far?
Parts of it very much. Parts are slow and parts are discouraging.
And, of course, the question that people still have strong feelings about:
- How well did Peter Jackson and company do adapting this story?
Not very well.

NW sister to Movie Aristotle & daughter of the King
