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[Closed] The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien

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Warrior 4 Jesus
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Yeah, I don't understand it either. The Inheritance Cycle are written by a strongly atheistic egotistical young man, while Harry Potter is written by a very successful but humble 'Christian' woman. Even if she isn't Christian (which is between her and God) the themes are very much so. Can't say the same for the Inheritance books. Not to mention that they're not well-written.
I'm not saying one is better than the other because one is Christian and one isn't (although it's better for them). I'm saying it because the magic and sex and violence in the Inheritance books far surpasses anything in the Harry Potter books and still (the HP books) get a lot of crap.

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Posted : July 23, 2010 6:22 pm
Gandalfs Beard
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NarniaWeb Nut

Actually, the Dwarves ARE kind of Buffoonish in The Hobbit :p (except for Thorin). I don't think we have to worry about the humour; Jackson knows The Hobbit is distinct stylistically from LotR.

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Posted : July 23, 2010 6:34 pm
Pattertwigs Pal
(@twigs)
Member Moderator

The wargs that attacked them on the way to Moria?

Yes, that was what I was talking about. Their bodies disappeared but Legolas's arrows were still there.


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Posted : July 24, 2010 2:37 am
Lady Haleth
(@lady-haleth)
NarniaWeb Junkie

I hope they get the riddle scene right. I want to hear Gollum again.
As for the LOTR movies, I didn't like everything in them. That whole scene where everyone thinks Aragorn is dead and he appears again--what was the point of that? And that scene where Gollum tips the waybread over a cliff and convinces Frodo that Sam ate it all was just dumb. Frodo would believe Sam over Gollum, for goodness sake, and Sam wouldn't be so silly as to eat all their supplies at one meal! The relationship between Frodo and Sam was kind of messed up. They argued too much. (Just like Peter and Caspian--groan.) I especially disliked Frodo in the Return of the King movie. All those gasps, groans, and eye-rollings just made him look like he was going to faint or be sick. I hope Bilbo doesn't act like that. If he does I will smash the bottles and burn the corks. :p
I agree about Eragon, though. The books have things that are rather inappropriate. And the violence is just...yuck.

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Posted : July 24, 2010 2:53 am
daughter of the King
(@dot)
Princess Dot Moderator

I think the worst part of the LOTR films is that there's way too much of Arwen in TTT. I mean, I LOVE the movies, but in the books, Arwen's not in there much and she's not in TTT at all!

I mostly agree with you about Arwen. Some of the scenes with her in TTT I thought could have been left out. At least she didn't show up at Helm's Deep! Aragorn and Arwen's story is beautiful in the book, but almost all of it is in the appendix.

There's no question that Tolkien's world reflected his Catholicism ElfMaidenAR :) . He even said that LotR was "fundamentally a 'Catholic' work."

But there is no question that Middle Earth was also very "Pagan inspired".

I agree with this. It's not an either/or, it's a both/and. Much like Narnia has Christian influences and pagan influences (after all, the first Narnian creature Lucy meets is a Faun of all things).

I hope Bilbo doesn't act like that. If he does I will smash the bottles and burn the corks. :p

If he does, I'll smash some bottles too. But I don't think he will. Frodo was like that because of the ring. Bilbo has the ring, but he won't be walking through Mordor with it.

I haven't read HP, so I can't give my opinion on it, but I have read the Inheritance Cycle, and there is a lot of stuff that would be considered inappropriate by most people.

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Posted : July 24, 2010 5:01 am
Warrior 4 Jesus
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It made sense that Arwen played a larger role in the movies (yes, thankfully she wasn't at Helm's Deep like they originally planned) but we have to remember Tolkien just brought her into the story at the very end. It's like 'oh, by the way, here's a new character for Aragorn to wed.' That's not good writing. You shouldn't have to read the appendices to get more details on her. Tolkien was a great linguist but not a very good writer and storyteller.

Lady Haleth, I love the movies too but those changes did annoy me. The first with Aragorn and the cliff was just cliche and boring and the second with Frodo and Sam and Gollum was just out of character and not really necessary at that point in the story. Pretty much everything else in the movies I love or can let slide.

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Posted : July 24, 2010 5:19 am
Liberty Hoffman
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It made sense that Arwen played a larger role in the movies (yes, thankfully she wasn't at Helm's Deep like they originally planned)

what? she was going to be in Helm's Deep?


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Posted : July 24, 2010 8:19 am
Bookwyrm
(@bookwyrm)
NarniaWeb Guru

Yeah, they even filmed bits of it, I believe. Peter Jackson cut it all at the last minute. Supposedly there's a brief flash during the battle after Eomer arrives in which you can see her in the background.

Okay, I remember that bit somewhat more now. Was it wargs or wolves though?

Posted : July 24, 2010 7:38 pm
Warrior 4 Jesus
(@warrior-4-jesus)
NarniaWeb Fanatic

I think it was wolves in The Hobbit and wargs in The Silmarillion. It don't remember them appearing in The Lord of the Rings book.

Yes, Arwen was going to be a warrior-woman type at Helms Deep and kick some serious posterior. I have no problem with warrior-women in any type of fiction as long as that isn't all that defines them and as long as it's true to their character and not just 'cool'. Having Arwen fight at Helms Deep would've been a horrible idea.

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Posted : July 24, 2010 7:55 pm
sillygoose
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I think after the Arwen at Helm's Deep idea was leaked, the writers got so many threat notes from the fans that they just had to take it out. :p

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Posted : July 25, 2010 6:54 am
Pattertwigs Pal
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Okay, I remember that bit somewhat more now. Was it wargs or wolves though?

In this passage, Tolkien seems to use them interchangeably.

Suddenly Aragorn leapt to his feet. "How the wind howls!" he cried. "It is howling with wolf-voices. The Wargs have come west of the Mountains!"

A great host of Wargs had gathered silently and was now attacking from all sides at once.

Here's the part that relates directly to my question.

When the full light of morning came no signs of the wolves were to be found, and they looked in vain for the bodies of the dead. No trace of the fight remained but the charred trees and the arrows of Legolas lying on the hill-top. All were undamaged save one of which only the point was left. "It is as I feared," said Gandalf. "These were no ordinary wolves hunting for food in the wilderness."

I didn't have a chance to get in on the discussion about the tone in the Hobbit vs. LotR etc. Quite a while back we were discussing continuity between LotR and the Hobbit movies and I expressed a concern over the elves at Rivendell since they seem so serious in LotR but in the Hobbit they are singing silly songs. I found this quote in FotR: "Some like kings, terrible and splendid; and some as merry as children." (Sam is talking) Then any difference can be explained by saying that the different movies just focused on a different group of Rivendell Elves. LotR is definitely a more serious book but it has its very light moments. Just like the Hobbit is lighter but has serious moments. I'm not sure exactly how to say this. I feel that the LotR has a bittersweet ending. The Hobbit does too. I don't feel as satisfied by the ending of LotR as I do by the ending of the Narnia series (and the individual books for that matter). The ring has been destroyed, but the elves leave, the Ents never find the Entwives and don't go looking, Lorien won't be the same, Frodo is not able to live in the world he helped to save, etc. Also, the ring was destroyed not through anyone's merit or clear divine intervention but by a greedy creature who accidentally falls into the fires of Mount Doom. In the Hobbit, Thorin makes peace with Bilbo but it takes a battle and his impending death to do it. He went all that way but only gets the treasure in his tomb. (Not that I think his greed was right and it is a good example of why one should be careful about making riches the focus of ones life, but it still is a little sad). When reading the Narnia books, I can't feel sad when Caspian dies because we see him happy in Aslan's Country. I'm not sure any of this is making any sense but I'm out of time for now.


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Posted : July 25, 2010 2:06 pm
daughter of the King
(@dot)
Princess Dot Moderator

Saw a link to this story on the Council of Elrond: http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/164436 ... tory.jhtml

I thought it was interesting, but what does he mean about Jackson "redesigning" Smaug????

ahsokasig
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Posted : July 25, 2010 4:06 pm
Silver the Wanderer
(@silver-the-wanderer)
NarniaWeb Junkie

Saw a link to this story on the Council of Elrond: http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/164436 ... tory.jhtml

I thought it was interesting, but what does he mean about Jackson "redesigning" Smaug????

...whaaat? daughter of the King, I have no idea. I'm still trying to make sense of that quote. First he said that Smaug isn't going to be in the Hobbit, then he says Jackson will "redesign" him? Did I read that right? :-

I love The Hobbit and I'm really hoping the movie is going to be great...

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Posted : July 25, 2010 5:00 pm
Lady Galadriel
(@lady-galadriel)
NarniaWeb Junkie

Something that I hope will get across very clearly to the scriptwriters and director is that The Hobbit should not be a Lord of the Rings repeat. It's at a time when evil is beginning to rise, but it's still behind the scenes.

And the talk on this thread about Bilbo acting like Frodo has made me wonder just what might happen. This is the LotR prequel, after all. I would not be surprised if they try to foreshadow more strongly Bilbo becoming attached to the Ring. While that would be good for continuity, the focus isn't supposed to be on the Ring at this point.

And while we're on the subject of The Hobbit:
Smaug might not not be in The Hobbit? :-o I do not get that idea at all... =; I have a feeling I'm badly misunderstanding something.

One thing that I liked about Arwen's numerous appearances was that it didn't really seem like a large change from the book (barring the Flight to the Ford, and the near appearance at Helms Deep). Her storyline that made it into the movie echoes the Tale, and I thought that was a really good idea. It made Arwen a character that people would care more about.

Posted : July 26, 2010 9:28 am
Gandalfs Beard
(@gandalfs-beard)
NarniaWeb Nut

After re-reading the article several times, I think Del Toro meant that HIS version of Smaug wouldn't be in the films, that Jackson would redesign Smaug.

GB (%)

"Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence" -- Carl Sagan

Posted : July 26, 2010 10:11 am
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