Éowyn or Arwen? They are both good . Éowyn is an interesting character, and we see (or read of) her a lot. There are many great scenes with her.

Arwen? Now she's an interesting one, too. A girl, who never fights in battles and sits home doing embroidery (I'm going by the book now, but I do realize she had a lot more to do than that). She was the one whom Aragorn loved despite their extremely long engagement; she didn't have to be a warrior to be noticed, and A. didn't leave her for a more lively personality (Éowyn). There simply had to be something more to her than a pretty face; we just don't know what it is .

I think I like Arwen more, though it's a difficult choise. There's simply something interesting in a girl in fantasy genre who does not have to prove her worth by fighting etc. - a very rare creature .

Good points, Mehinen. I do respect Arwen, to be sure. Just to clarify: it isn't because Éowyn goes to war that I tend to prefer her character: I just find her life story more interesting, overall. But I truly respect Arwen's choice to marry Aragorn ... and become mortal. Plus she shows great commitment waiting for her husband through many hardships.

Honestly, I sometimes wonder to what extent how Tyler and Otto portrayed those two females has affected me. I'm not a big Liv Tyler fan, but really like Miranda Otto, so that could have had an influence on my preference, to be sure. EDIT: Definitely I like movie Éowyn better than movie Arwen. But in the book, one hardly gets to know Arwen, so naturally I gravitate towards the Shieldmaiden there, as well.

Éowyn. I don't remember the scenes from the House of Healing very well because I have only seen the EE version once and it kept skipping (I checked it out from the library). I like the romance that develops between her and Faramir. In the movies, I like her role better that Arwen's The romance between Aragorn and Arwen in the book seemed more based on appearance than anything else (If I'm remembering correctly).

There's simply something interesting in a girl in fantasy genre who does not have to prove her worth by fighting etc. - a very rare creature .

That is nice but I still like Éowyn better.

Good points, Mehinen. I do respect Arwen, to be sure. Just to clarify: it isn't because Éowyn goes to war that I tend to prefer her character: I just find her life story more interesting, overall. But I truly respect Arwen's choice to marry Aragorn ... and become mortal. Plus she shows great commitment waiting for her husband through many hardships.

Honestly, I sometimes wonder to what extent how Tyler and Otto portrayed those two females has affected me. I'm not a big Liv Tyler fan, but really like Miranda Otto, so that could have an influence my preference, to be sure.

This is exactly how I feel, especially the last paragraph.

I happen to be Liv Tyler fan, so I think our perceptions of the actors themselves may have coloured our views to a degree. In the books, Arwen barely figures and the story of she and Aragorn is told largely in the appendices.

So in years past (before the films) I probably might have leaned towards Eowyn, but for the fact that I've always had an affinity for Elf-kind.

Just to be clear, Sam Raimi is my first choice based on that directors list in the article, my TOP choice would be Terry Gilliam (but I'm dead certain you'd be brilliant too Johobbit ).

GB

Aragorn and Arwen have a courtly romance. He is the knight and she the lady in the highest chamber in the tallest tower who throws him a lace handkerchief (or necklace, in the film) now and then. Then the war begins and he becomes George Washington with Arwen as the Betsy Ross sewing his flag. (This is where all the Betsy Ross history fans race to remind us that there was more to Ross than sewing.)

Some of those elements got lost when film-Arwen went traipsing around ringwraith-infested wilderness where even Radagast the Wizard was scared to travel all alone.

Sam Raimi has demonstrated in the first two Spider-Man films that he can definitely handle Bildungsromans, which is what Bilbo's journey is. I'd only heard of Raimi from horror films that I haven't watched, and even I was impressed.

BTW, does anyone know if Adamson is interested? He's already worked with WETA, so they'd have a working relationship from the start.

Who knows; a new director might be able to get the story back on track, with Bilbo's story in one film, and that "Gandalf/Galadriel/Elrond/Saruman play Patton at Dol Guldur, if Patton had superpowers" in another. How can anyone respect Bilbo's growth as a character when he has to compete with wizards shooting Death Lasers of Deathy Death against Forcefields of the Lair of Evilly Evil? It's going to be hard enough for Bilbo to keep up with his own weight class i.e., one Bombur, the pleasingly plump dwarf who still almost beat the [blessings] out of three giant trolls. Having Bilbo try to keep up with Bombur is, pardon the expression, very human, and probably funny. But having Bilbo have to compete with Galadriel's glowing eyes of Super-Die-Sauron-Die-Already for screen time ... that's just sad.

The part on the walls? Oh, I love that part. My personal favorite of all the romantic scenes in the movies.

Ditto! With Rosie and Sam coming in a fairly close second

greenleaf, I too loved the EE scene with Éowyn and Faramir. Better than Aragorn's and Arwen's romance. The part on the walls, Booky, in the book; the part near the Houses of Healing in the film.

Ditto yet again! O, I love that part in the book as well...

"The reason of my waking mind tells me that great evil has befallen and we stand at the end of days. But my heart says nay; and all my limbs are light, and a hope and joy are come to me that no reason can deny. Eowyn, Eowyn, White Lady of Rohan, in this hour I do no believe that any darkness will endure!" And he stooped and kissed her brow. And so they stood on the walls of the City of Gondor, and a great wind rose and blew, and their hair, raven and golden, streamed out mingling in the air. And the Shadow departed, and the Sun was unveiled, and light leaped forth; and the waters of Anduin shone like silver, and in all the houses of the City men sang for the joy that welled up in their hearts from what source they could not tell.

Sorry, that got pretty long, but it's so beautiful! Poor Aragorn and Arwen don't stand a chance

Ah, Eowyn vs. Arwen? Totally Eowyn! (although I'm quite a fan of the pointy ears I'd probably pick Legolas, Galadriel and Aradhel before Arwen as favorite Elven characters though) For all the reasons that Jo mentioned, spunk, courage, determination (haha, "We just need someone really really...boring" He's my favorite character ). I respect Arwen too, and I do agree she was a very strong woman, but I just think Eowyn's awesome

There's simply something interesting in a girl in fantasy genre who does not have to prove her worth by fighting etc. - a very rare creature .

I do agree there though (even though I'm still on Eowyn's side )

Ah, I didn't knew either of the actresses, so I'm based mostly on the book/movie. I just remember the first time I read LotR the one part I really loved was when Eowyn kills the Witch King (actually, if you open up my copy of RotK the spine is actually bent so that it turns to that page from reading it so much ) it's just so beautiful, and the only scene I was really dissapointed with in the movie. Don't get me wrong, it was great, but it just wasn't...I don't know, it just felt like it was missing something.*stops before she starts to ramble *

Then the war begins and he becomes George Washington with Arwen as the Betsy Ross sewing his flag.

That's a perfect analogy! And if I remember correctly, Eowyn sewed Aragorn the banners he used after the paths of the dead, right?

Eowyn's fight with the Witch King is better in the extended edition.
Also, at the time Tolkien was writing fantasy, women weren't exactly portrayed as strong protagonists, fighting or no. It's only a much more modern occurrence that has left us with the fighting maiden stereotype. And lets be honest, there's more to Eowyn than her fighting skills.

Then the war begins and he becomes George Washington with Arwen as the Betsy Ross sewing his flag.

That's a perfect analogy! And if I remember correctly, Eowyn sewed Aragorn the banners he used after the paths of the dead, right?

Actually, I think that was Arwen. I don't recall Eowyn sewing a banner, but Arwen did.

I just don't know who I like better -- Eowyn or Arwen! Like everyone is saying, they are better in different ways. There's also the fact that Arwen was strong and remained true to her love (Aragorn), while Eowyn only thought she loved him. In the book, Arwen is beautiful and mysterious, and her romance is only in the background. In the movie, she is also strong when she needs to be.

As for the actresses, both Liv Tyler and Mirando Otto are very good.

Book characters, I'd have to pick Eowyn. Book!Arwen is barely present. We get a bit more of her in the Appendix, but I don't feel like we ever really get to know her the way we do the Fellowship members or the Rohan characters. Though her story is fairly amazing and inspiring, for sheer awesomeness I'd pick the story of Beren and Luthien any day over Aragorn's and Arwen's romance. Movie-wise, I'd pick Eowyn again. Arwen ultimately didn't do much but sit around looking sad and beautiful or make-out with Aragorn. Don't get me wrong, she's far more interesting in the movies than in the book, but not enough to match Eowyn.

Good point about women in fiction, Warrior. When Tolkien was writing, female characters like Eowyn and Galadriel and Luthien were not the norm. He was actually pretty groundbreaking and doesn't get nearly enough credit for it.

Yes, I definitely would pick Eowyn any day. But I love the Rohirrim anyway. And I totally agree with you about Beren and Luthien. She actually did things. Even the other elf/mortal couple (Tuor of the House of Hador and Idril, daughter of the king of Gondolin) were a bit more interesting. But Eowyn is awesome, in the tradition of the woman I chose as my username: Lady Haleth, leader of the House of Haleth. She was major Warrior Woman.

The romance between Aragorn and Arwen in the book seemed more based on appearance than anything else (If I'm remembering correctly).

The beginning of the romance was based almost completely on appearance - Aragorn is completely love-struck at first sight of Arwen, when he is reminded of Luthien (who is an ancestor of both of them). I'm sure that as it develops, he finds that she's more than just a beautiful face - but Tolkien never gives us the details of that development ...

But Tolkien uses that concept more than just once. The story of Beren and Luthien starts in much the same way. Beren also is love-struck at seeing Luthien the Elf-maiden dancing in the woods. But in their story Tolkien gives us many more details about what they actually achieve together - Luthien saves Beren's life, and later they retrieve a Silmaril together.

Even the story of Luthien's parents starts with love based on appearance. King Thingol of Doriath meets Melian the Maia in the woods, and he is enchanted - literally - by her beauty. They stand transfixed, staring at each other, for years , before waking up and getting married.

Good points, Mehinen. I do respect Arwen, to be sure. Just to clarify: it isn't because Éowyn goes to war that I tend to prefer her character: I just find her life story more interesting, overall. But I truly respect Arwen's choice to marry Aragorn ... and become mortal. Plus she shows great commitment waiting for her husband through many hardships.

It's interesting that in an early version of the story, Tolkien had meant Aragorn to marry Eowyn. She might have been well suited for him in many ways. But Tolkien eventually decided she would be too young for him.

And I think Faramir is better suited for Eowyn than Aragorn would have been. The scene on the city walls where he declares his love for her, and she finally realises about hers for him, is one of my favorite scenes of LotR ...

After a furious debate at the Hobbit forum I thought I'd ask a few Nwebbers to put in their tuppence.

Is The Hobbit Whimsical, or at least have some apparently Whimsical Elements? My position was that it at least has a number of Whimsical Elements based on one of the key definitions of Whimsy (Fantasy+Humour=Whimsy).

To be clear, I do NOT think Lord of the Rings is particularly Whimsical, except for the Tom Bombadil scenes.

Here are just a few examples of some the parts of The Hobbit I thought were "Whimsical" or at least appeared Whimsical.
1) The Songs.
2) Talking Animal walking upright and Serving Tea at Beorn's House.
3) The "Cockney" Trolls.
4) The Dwarves' colourful Beards.
5) The entire introductory scenes at Bilbo's Hobbit Hole, meeting Gandalf and the Dwarves.
6) Carousing, Drunken, Snarky Oscar Wilde Elves "Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear! Isn't it delicious!"

A few dictionary definitions for reference:

Merriam Webster: (a DICTIONARY )
Main Entry: whim·sy
Variant(s): also whim·sey ˈhwim-zē, ˈwim-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural whimsies also whimseys
Etymology: irregular from whim-wham
Date: 1605
1 : whim, caprice
2 : the quality or state of being whimsical or fanciful
3 : a fanciful or fantastic device, object, or creation especially in writing or art

Oxford Online Dictionary:
whimsy
(also whimsey)

• noun (pl. whimsies or whimseys) 1 playfully quaint or fanciful behaviour or humour. 2 a fanciful or odd thing. 3 a whim.

— ORIGIN probably from archaic whim-wham ‘trinket, whim’.

unattributed online dictionaries:
whim•sy
   ˈʰwɪm zi,ˈwɪm-Show Spelled[hwim-zee, wim-] Show IPA
–noun, plural -sies.
1.
capricious humor or disposition; extravagant, fanciful, or excessively playful expression: a play with lots of whimsy.
2.
an odd or fanciful notion.
3.
anything odd or fanciful; a product of playful or capricious fancy: a whimsy from an otherwise thoughtful writer.

fan•ci•ful
   ˈfæn sɪ fəlShow Spelled[fan-si-fuh l] Show IPA
–adjective
1.
characterized by or showing fancy; capricious or whimsical in appearance: a fanciful design of butterflies and flowers.
2.
suggested by fancy; imaginary; unreal: fanciful lands of romance.
3.
led by fancy rather than by reason and experience; whimsical: a fanciful mind.

This might seem a bit pedantic , but believe me, when I used the word "Whimsy" to describe many aspects of The Hobbit, I was rather surprised by the reaction.

GB

^^ whimsical.....hmmm......I don't think so, IMO. the songs, to me, are no different from LOTR (in LOTR there are drinking songs and songs of frivolity too. (think Frodo's song at The Prancing Pony)

I am going to say yes, Hobbit does contain whimsical elements. Although I think the Merriam-Webster dictionary definition is a better fit. I don't think the entire story is whimsical, but bits like Bilbo's Unexpected Party are whimsy.

the songs, to me, are no different from LOTR (in LOTR there are drinking songs and songs of frivolity too. (think Frodo's song at The Prancing Pony)

Taking that into account, I think LotR also contains whimsical elements, but not as many.

I would agree that The Hobbit has whimsical elements, but it definitely is not a whimsy. For me, a whimsical novel would be something like Winnie the Pooh, rather cute and adorable and "safe". There's some darkness in TH, nothing on the scale of LotR, but enough that it isn't all kittens and rainbows.