my guess is that they will have Bilbo younger, especially since they are not using Ian Holm to play Bilbo again!

Yeah, that's what I'd think too...but then they have a kind of...well not old but older Bilbo in the Prelude in FotR But since he's the same age as Frodo when he goes on his journey, but then they made Frodo younger...so many ages and questions!

I agree Jo

I think adding a female elf could be pretty cool...the only ones we've really "seen" are Arwen and Galadriel, and we didn't get to see them really fight at all (thank goodness for that in Arwen's case!), although I'm pretty sure Galadriel fought at different times. It would be kind of cool to show that there are some fighting female elves out there (as long as it doesn't take away from the story at all)

I'm doing that too Lady Galadriel! I'm in the first 30 pages of Return of the King. I didn't pay much attention to Aragorn though I've been trying to just follow the book story and forget the movie...but it's pretty hard, especially since all the characters look so perfect I've been trying to pay a lot of attention to Denethor know that I'm in RotK...he really doesn't start out as bad as he does in the movie (so far anyway, I haven't seen a whole lot of him yet) he seems more subtly deceptive and clever than he did in the movies.

*checks out the Appendices...* Yep, she's Frodo's mother Varnafinde.

And slightly related...in the family trees you can see that Pippin had a son named Faramir, who married Sam's daughter Goldilocks.

yeah, there are SO amny ways they could do Bilbo's age.....
I just hope theu find someone who looks at least a little like Ian Holm......but they can't please everybody!

*checks out the Appendices...* Yep, she's Frodo's mother Varnafinde.

Thank you for checking!

A 'ketchup' post:

Going all the way back to page 15, lysander, I heartily ditto your thoughts about what they did to movie Faramir. *stifles the weepies yet again* And, yep, very interesting about the Sam/Gollum comparison!

And the hushed silence is still very pervasive and present nearly two months later ... for my part, anyway.

I did watch Born of Hope the weekend after it was released and ... wow! Very, very well done. I preferred it to The Hunt for Gollum because it had more substance to it ... the storyline, anyway. The locations were beautiful and the score engaging, plus the acting was really decent. Thumbs up!

Liberty, your post here reminded me how I felt about The Sil when I was younger: mind-boggling, it was. It wasn't until a couple of decades later that I gave it another try, fell in love with it, and the rest is history. As we've mentioned here before, jot down notes as to who's who and what race they belong to, plus what function they have (I'm thinking of all the Ainur here). It helps to have hard-copy notes to refer to. Also, GB gave helpful suggestions just below your post. Give it time. Pick it up in another five or ten years and then see what you think. Having said that, it's not for every one.

*chuckles uproariously at Eru's BoH spoiler comment*

Itaril is most likely a character that will appear in scenes already requiring Elves. I doubt she's going to be a member of The Quest

She better not be. Thanks for that Update Edit on the Lead Role list, GB.

Aha, found it! In relation to the once-again recent discussion of Aragorn, here is a post by lysander that speaks my thoughts concerning any uncertainty on Aragorn's part, particularly these lines:

There are portions of the book where Aragorn acts very conflicted and uncertain, but the uncertainty is NEVER about his duty or destiny.

Amen and amen!

People who are absolutely certain that they deserve Power often have the least wisdom to use it responsibly.

I don't see that Aragorn thought he deserved the power—there is a difference between thinking one deserves something and knowing one's calling. Also, in regard to Lady G's post, I point again to lys' quote above. My beef is that in the movies the focus on Aragorn is a rather wimpy "I'm not sure I even want to be what I'm supposed to be" (which demeans the character) rather than Tolkien's solid "I'm not quite sure how to get there, but I do know to what goal I am headed".

*waves to everyone else here and reiterates how much she enjoys the participation of each of you on this thread*

My beef is that in the movies the focus on Aragorn is a rather wimpy "I'm not sure I even want to be what I'm supposed to be" (which demeans the character) rather than Tolkien's solid "I'm not quite sure how to get there, but I do know to what goal I am headed".

Exactly! Book-Aragorn knows his calling, but does not know how to get there, or even when he should get there. I think he knew Denethor would not accept him, and so he was unsure of when he should declare himself king. He was never in doubt about being king.

Well, now I am at Chapter 5 of "The Return of the King." (I do read fairly fast, but I hope I've been paying attention to it!) This re-read has been enlightening to me in some ways. Firstly, the movies paid a lot of attention to detail. Second, I still have not noticed any big plot deviations, except for perhaps a few things in the time-line.

And on the topics of Faramir and Denethor: Faramir seems mostly friendly to Frodo and Sam, just stilted in a way. I suppose it would be drastic for the movie to switch a friend to an enemy! As for Denethor, he is definitely a lot different in the movie than in the book. What does everyone think of the changes on him?

One final question that I have had for a long time, but just thought to ask you experts here : Going by the books, which is mightier--Gandalf or the Witch-king?

GANDALF!!!! That scene in the movie version of RotK should never have been filmed.

I say Gandalf as well He was a Mayar (not sure of the spelling) spirit once, right? And the Witch King was only ever a man, even if he is Sauron's servant now.

I think the Witch-King is stronger than Gandalf the Grey, but Gandalf the White is stronger than the Witch-King.

yes, I agree with daughter of the King.....Gandalf The White is MUCH stronger than the Witch-King! that's why Gandalf when he comes back as Gandalf The White is so much more powerful and he can do more!

Bookwyrm, that is why I said the books...

I kind of was thinking that "Gandalf the White is more powerful than the Witch-King is more powerful than Gandalf the Grey" too, but the book seems to contradict itself. In The Two Towers Aragorn says that the White Rider is mightier than the Black Riders. But I'm certain Gandalf says somewhere, "I am white...but black is mightier still."

I'm doing a reread too. I started with The Hobbit and just started the actual book part of FotR. It is taking me awhile, since I read it in German first and then in English to check my understanding of the German. I also had to take a break from it for a while because I didn't have time during the day to do my normal Bible reading so I did it during my before bed reading spot which is when I usually read FotR. Now I’m back into it. I'm also reading the Book of Lost Tales Two and have almost finished it (it's my take with when I'm babysitting book).

Has anyone else noticed there seems to be a discrepancy as to when Sam was born? I like to know how old characters are at certain points in stories, so I looked up the birth dates of the hobbits. The family tree lists Sam's birth year as 1380 and the time line has it as 2983. I know that the first number is Shire reckoning and the other is a different dating system but with that taken in to account they differ by three years.

Gandalf fought at least some of the Nazgûl at Weathertop. I don’t remember how many and I’m not that far yet. According to The Complete Guide to Middle-earth: Tolkien's World from A to Z, “[The Nazgûl’s] power together at night was nearly as great as Gandalf’s.” It would seem that Gandalf would be stronger than any one of them.

By the way, Liberty, The Complete Guide to Middle-earth: Tolkien's World from A to Z is a great source to use to try to keep things straight in The Sil. It has a time line of the First Age which helps clarify how the different stories in the book relate to each other in time. It also has listings for the places and people in the books.

Lady Galadriel: I'd say that Gandalf... As greenleaf23 said before, Gandalf is a maia in disguise and the other one is just a man who should have been dead for a very long time already. Gandalf the Grey won a battle with a balrog, so I think that Gandalf the White could well beat the Witch-king. As for the "black is mightier still", well, I think it referred to Sauron. It also might have referred to the size difference of the armies, but that may be a little far-fetched .

That's my non-expert opinion .

Hey, I didn't say non-expert opinions didn't count!

Pattertwig's Pal: thanks! I will have to find that book!