In response to Twig's' spoilered response to FK and Dot: yes, it was stated by one of the orcs, and I agree with FK's objection to this plot device.

I know that some have said this movie's pacing was better than the first's, but I have to disagree. I didn't mind sitting through the first film, even the parts I wasn't as fond of, but with DoS I found myself wanting to spend more time getting the movie going, the way all the other Middle-earth films have done. The beginning felt too rushed, as I've said before, to the point that I wasn't able to feel at all settled into anything before we were on to the next bit, and there were so many things, particularly late in the film, that were either too drawn out

This was the family Boxing Day theatre party of choice. I even got all the tickets from one of my daughters as a Christmas present. But I find myself agreeing with much of what is said. In sharp contrast to how I felt about VDT, for example.

LIKES:

DISLIKES:

Spoiler

I quite understood that the unceasing Orc hunts were why nice bits of the book, like Gandalf's introduction of the dwarfs to Beorn were not included. Obviously Orcs ramp up the action, the injury toll etc. But I got very tired of the Orcs turning up when they weren't supposed to. Couldn't they have gone off to a nice Orc conference and stayed there for a bit, while Bombur had his enchanted sleep at a river? And Bilbo did his Attacop bit with the spiders plus playing burglar with Smaug? I do hope intensely that in the next movie that Azog comes to a particularly gruesome end for being such an overpoweringly annoying pest.

MORE DISLIKES:

All in all, I think the last episode has quite a bit of explaining to do to save the series.

I really wanted to see Bombur fall in the river and have to be carried. That would have greatly helped set the mood.

That scene was actually filmed, so I would assume it will be in the Extended Edition along with Thorin shooting the stag.

- Watching the movie I remembered
that the first pic we got of Beorn was him chopping wood outside, topless. I realized that we did not see this in the movie. This made me think that perhaps this is a scene we will get in the EE - maybe the Company wake up in his house, and go outside to see if it is safe, only to find Beorn chopping wood. We could get some introductory moments, before cutting back to Bilbo waking up with the bee on his face and the rest of the scene. I know the actor who plays Beorn also talked about filming a scene where he tortures an orc. Plus the Lego set does suggest a trip by Beorn to check out Dol Guldur. Maybe thats where he captures and tortures an orc. That might be a nice flashback to understand how Beorn knows about the darkening of Mirkwood and the alliance between the Moria orcs and the Necromancer.

- Why does the Morgul Arrow behave differently from the Morgul blade? The effect of the Morgul blade on Frodo in FOTR was instantaneous, and he was a complete mess and incapacitated until he was saved by Elrond. So why wasn't this the case with Kili? Why would some orc be equipped with such a weapon?

- Smaug continually refers to Thorin as "Oakenshield". A named he acquired years later at the Battle of Azanulbizar How did he come to learn of this?

- In the trailer we clearly see Thrain dropping down on Gandalf when he is armed with his staff and Glamdring - so the planned sequence must happen after Gandalf enters Dol Guldur but before he encounters Azog/sauron. Of course the same trailer also shows Azog in the Woodland realm...and coupled with the change in Bolg's design (and role) it would appear that the whole Dol Guldur sequence may have been heavily revised at a relatively late stage. Perhaps the changes now preclude the Thrain material even appearing in the EE?

Some Tauriel & Kill speculation

Actually, fantasia_kitty, the fact that

All in all, I am interested in hearing what the EE will have to offer. Hopefully it will be a longer cut than AUJ's EE (I liked many of those additions, but had been expecting more than that. Maybe they didn't want to make the movie much longer than it already was. I was hoping to see some scenes that included more character development.) For example, the LOTR EE's had some very good additions (and some cringe-worthy ones ). I'm hoping that the EE of DOS will be long enough to spread out all the fighting scenes. Hopefully it will also rectify at least some of the missing scenes in the theatrical version. (I, for one, was also expecting in the theater to see the enchanted river scene and the scene where Thrain engages Gandalf, and was disappointed to see these dropped from the final version.) Beorn's house, Mirkwood Forest, and the Elven kingdom passed too quickly for my liking.

Edited

The cringe-worthy moments in the Hobbit movies far outweigh anything in the LotR EEs.

I can only suggest the overly long dwarves vs goblins battle as cringy; too much Barry Humphries. I was pretty happy with part 2, although it didn't have an ending at all, and the cliff hanger really annoyed one of my friends and his mates when they went to see it.

In 2012 Air New Zealand had a flight safety video made that used lots of Hobbit characters and themes. In 2013 Air NZ produced an advert along the same lines, which you can see here.

I have finally seen it.

I liked it in general - but there are some scenes that are a bit too scary and which made me uncomfortable. Next time I see it I guess I will be prepared and not worry too much. It will be easier when I know what to expect.

It's very often very different from the book. I'm fine with many of the differences, but I think some of them aren't necessary.

I think it's good for the movie to have more of a confrontation between Thorin and Smaug than the book has.
But I don't think it needed all the confrontations with Orcs.

I still think it's worth seeing, and I'm going to see it again, either in theaters, preferably with friends, or on DVD.
I have to warn those two of my friends who are most interested in Tolkien, but are also arachnophobes, that the scenes with the spiders here might bother them more than the scenes with Shelob did in RotK.

I saw The Hobbit a couple weeks ago and just started to listen to the musical score, but just now am finding time to type up some thoughts. I have some spoilers in here, so I will black them out.

Film-
Generally speaking, I am ok with a few changes from book to movie as long as the general premise stays true to the book and there are not huge changes. In Narnia terms, I was perfectly OK with LWW, a bit nervous with PC, and, well...VoDT....yeah.

With that in mind, I enjoyed the second Hobbit movie. I was a bit disappointed how rushed Beorn, Mirkwood and the spiders seemed. My wife, who is very good at drawing animals, said the animation of bear-Beorn seemed a bit awkward, but my untrained eye didn't notice anything.

I loved Smaug. Cumberbatch has the perfect voice for him and the CGI was excellent.

I am enjoying the story line of the rise of Sauron

I will say that this was a very dark and violent movie. There seemed to be more graphic (though bloodless) violence involving arrows in heads, beheadings, etc. In my opinion, it rivals Return of the King in darkness and exceeds the previous 4 movies in violence. I haven't seen LOTR in a while though, so my memory may just be forgetting parts.

The ending really stuck out to me. So far, each of the previous 4 movies have ended on a somewhat hopeful note. Samwise's uplifting actions and speeches in FotR and TT; victory at Helms Deep (TT), victory in the War of the Ring (RotK) and escaping the orcs and seeing the Lonely Mountain in An Unexpected Journey. These rays of hope in the darkness seemed to have become a signature of this series,

Musical Score-
I love soundtracks. It is almost all I listen to, and I listen to them all the time. The first Hobbit score was good, but didn't seem to really grab me (except the ending song, Song of the Lonely Mountain). This score really grabs me though and I am very much enjoying it. The theme for Lake Town and Smaug are both excellent, though I wish there was a bit more of the Lake Town theme. Smaug's theme is quietly dark and mysterious- perfect for a dragon just awakening. The only part I don't like, opposite to the first score, is the ending song 'I see fire'. It sounds way too modern in my opinion...it immediately made me think of the Hunger Games, not hobbits, dwarves and dragons.

I don't really have enough time on my hands to write up my own opinion of how The Desolation of Smaug was handled, but I'll reply to a few things from Narnian Storm.

With that in mind, I enjoyed the second Hobbit movie. I was a bit disappointed how rushed Beorn, Mirkwood and the spiders seemed.

I can fully relate to that. I was really looking forward to the Beorn scene actually, but I felt the whole portrayal was a bit weak and seemed pretty random. In the book I got the impression that Beorn's was a safe haven, a lapse from the suspense and a friend's company where there was none. None of that rubbed off on me in the movie!

I loved Smaug. Cumberbatch has the perfect voice for him and the CGI was excellent.

Smaug had an amazing voice and obnoxiously clever monologues. They went far too long though, I felt. The 'wow' factor died way before the rest of the Dwarves joined Bilbo - so in my opinion they over-exposed Smaug. Would have been better to make a short and sweet appearance in this release and a more protracted one in the 3rd film.

The only part I don't like, opposite to the first score, is the ending song 'I see fire'. It sounds way too modern in my opinion...it immediately made me think of the Hunger Games, not hobbits, dwarves and dragons.

No way! I've had 'I See Fire' on repeat for weeks! But maybe that's because I saw Ed Sheeran's recording video well before the movie was released and so became used to the style. I agree that it is less medieval/fantasy-sounding but I really do enjoy the modernity of it. I think it does retain a very noticeable old gaelic/irish-sounding strain and was surprised that the song hit #1 in many countries despite this. The lyrics are pretty moving for me too!

The only part I don't like, opposite to the first score, is the ending song 'I see fire'. It sounds way too modern in my opinion...it immediately made me think of the Hunger Games, not hobbits, dwarves and dragons.

No way! I've had 'I See Fire' on repeat for weeks! But maybe that's because I saw Ed Sheeran's recording video well before the movie was released and so became used to the style. I agree that it is less medieval/fantasy-sounding but I really do enjoy the modernity of it. I think it does retain a very noticeable old gaelic/irish-sounding strain and was surprised that the song hit #1 in many countries despite this. The lyrics are pretty moving for me too!

My opinion on the song is changing. I actually woke up this morning with it stuck in my head.

I really enjoyed the credit song, "I See Fire," but I wish that it had a few more verses and developed its Tolkienish influences a bit more. That said, it's fantastic considering it was written and recorded within a couple of days of the artist seeing the film in post production.

Trusty, I saw that video, too, back when Peter Jackson posted it on Facebook, and I think that helped me enjoy it at the end of the film. (It also helped me anticipate where the film would end.)

I was able to talk with my brother about the movie last night, and while we disagreed on some things, we did agree on the following:

- Thranduil was awesome
- Mirkwood wasn't creepy enough
- Smaug, Bilbo, and Balin rocked
- the Master of Laketown did nothing for us (my brother didn't even realize it was Stephen Fry, and he adores Fry's acting )
- We both felt that there was too much reliance on CGI compared to the LotR films, where the focus was on prosthetics. This leads to the feeling that we aren't getting as high quality of films as we did with LotR. :/

I honestly do not know where to begin with this second Hobbit film. I could write far too long a post, ranting and raving as to why I did not care for the vast majority of the movie , but most has already been mentioned here in recent pages. Trying to keep it brief ... despite the character changes in The LotR (which still make me weep), I am quite fond of those films, overall, but PJ has taken things too far and too liberally with the Hobbit movies: I am exceedingly disappointed. I wanted to like them, but simply cannot, aside from a few scenes here and there.

Spoiler

There was too much diversion from the original tale; overdone and overlong and over-the-top and utterly unrealistic video-game-like action ; did not care for the upped CGI; not nearly enough of Tolkien's Beorn, and what there was did not impress me (he looked more like a werewolf )—I was so disappointed the Dwarves' famous entrance to his abode was changed to an unimpressive fault; as well, the Tauriel/Kili/Legolas 'love' triangle thing was unnecessary and ridiculous; the Master of Laketown was totally "meh". To quote Mel from a couple of pages back ...

My, my, my, that movie is a fanficcers' paradise.

Yep! Not impressed, my preciousssss, not impressed. And elsewhere it has been written, "This is no longer Tolkien's Middle-earth". *weeps* I will see the third film out of curiousity, but I have no anticipation for it.

Also, DITTO to fantasia's second Spoiler box! Well stated. PJ just spent too much time on stuff that Did Not Matter! Grabbing on his huge success with The LotR, he thinks he can do anything now. Well, sorry, PJ, it really seems like this second Hobbit film has separated fans big-time. You have a lot to answer for, ol' buddy.

There were a few choice things I liked, but it's been so long since I have seen the film ...

Spoiler

Smaug was amazing (as was his voice) and Freeman as Bilbo was pretty much bang-on, although I still prefer Ian Holm as Bilbo; finding the door in the side of the mountain gave me wonderful chills; 'twas cool when Bilbo's sword became "Sting" (that's about the only thing I thought well-done in Mirkwood, although the spiders were very creepy, but the forest was not, at least not as much as I have always imagined it would be); loved Balin, as I did in the first film. But you know, I really need to see it again, because I forget much about the Gandalf Dol Guldur parts since I was so turned off with the movie by then that I think I may have been napping. Trouble is, I don't want to see it again. What a dilemma. [/spoiler]

Anyway, on to brighter things: SummerSnow, good to hear you are re-reading The FotR. I appreciated your post.

I used to find Tolkien's writing much too long and descriptive; I now (for the most part) enjoy it. I will sometimes find myself just skimming past descriptions, but not nearly as much as I used to.

How cool is that?! I felt that way about his poetry when I first read the book, but later (especially after I read The Silmarillion), did I appreciate it more.

I know Pippin is the youngest and Frodo, the eldest, but is Sam older than Merry?

I believe Samwise is a bit older than Merry, from my recollection, but I have not yet looked this up.

Does that mean that the ring had a sort of power before you put it on?

Not as strong as when one put it on, but it seemed to be unusually alluring to anyone who even just saw it—a thing of beauty and altogether desirable.

So, this is so cool: our son sent me this link last week. It's of a neighbourhood in the Netherlands, which is, well, just take a look at the names of the streets!

P.S. 'Twas a bit of a pain formatting all this, so if anything is awry that I have missed, let me know!

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Posted : January 27, 2014 10:24 am

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