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The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

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Bookwyrm
(@bookwyrm)
NarniaWeb Guru

The Arkenstone:

Spoiler
I have an uncomfortable feeling they're going to make the Arkenstone a Silmaril. When I read The Silmarillion, I wondered if it was possible that it was the Silmaril lost in the earth and something about how they've treated it in these two movies makes me wonder if that's what they're going for.

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Posted : December 18, 2013 6:29 pm
SummerSnow
(@summersnow)
Member Hospitality Committee

This is actually my second time reading The Fellowship of The Ring , but since I don't remember much of it (I was younger and read it way too quickly), it doesn't really count. :p I've never seen the movies (besides clips and the Hobbit), but I do have a mental picture of the characters in my head which can sometimes be nice.
I've read up to the sixth chapter (The Old Forest) and have really enjoyed it. I used to find Tolkien's writing much too long and descriptive; I now (for the most part) enjoy it. I will sometimes find myself just skimming past descriptions, but not nearly as much as I used to.
I haven't gotten far enough to really decide which is my favorite character. I like them all so much.
I know Pippin is the youngest and Frodo, the eldest, but is Sam older than Merry?
The back-story with Gollum was interesting.
My thoughts on Bilbo:
I like the mushrooms story and find it very interesting that hobbits like them so much (I'm not surprised, but never the less find it interesting).
I noted that the hobbits sang a song to the same tune as the one in the Hobbit. After asking my sister about it, I'm disappointed that they didn't do it in the movie. It would've been cool to hear it (especially if it had been in the same tune, which it should have been).
That's pretty much all I have to say, though I'll probably post more later. :)

Avatar created by Valia

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Posted : December 21, 2013 8:55 am
fantasia
(@fantasia)
Member Admin

Re: Summer's Bilbo spoiler...

Spoiler
When you say people didn't like him in LotR, are you referring to the movies or the books? I'm not sure I've ever heard people refer to not liking him in LotR. He just wasn't much of a main character like he was in The Hobbit. In the movies, the scene where he encounters Frodo in Elrond's house is played up a good deal more than in the book, so perhaps that's what people are referring to?

Yesterday I overheard a conversation between a couple friends of mine (you know who you are ;) ) where one of them expressed the opinion that the movie will never be as good as the book, you should separate the two and appreciate the movie for what it is. I appreciate that sentiment. I actually think I'm fairly decent on being able to separate the two, but after having a week to think on the Hobbit movie, my opinion of it is getting worse, not better, and here's why...

Spoiler
Never in the history of filmmaking have gratuitous cliches, gratuitous stupidity/slapstick, and gratuitous romance improved an adaptation. When time and resources are put into making those scenes, it leaves less room for quality scenes that could have been used from the book instead. Then you are left with 'just another fantasy movie' void of what makes the book special and unique.
And with The Hobbit, this is doubly a slap in the face because I've seen The Fellowship of the Ring, I know what Peter Jackson is capable of making.

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Posted : December 21, 2013 11:54 pm
Gretel liked
Josh
 Josh
(@josh)
NarniaWeb Junkie

I went into the movie ready to hate Tauriel but I actually found her quite likable. This is probably due to Evangeline Lilly's performance as the idea of the character sounded bad. I even found the relationship with Kili amusingly endearing. However I am certain that Tolkien is rolling in his grave over the scene where

Spoiler
Kili tells her "I could have anything down my trousers" to which she replies "Or nothing
. Funny or not, it doesn't fit this type of movie.

Personally, the biggest flaw of the movie was throwing in so many over-the-top drawn out and physically impossible action sequences. They made everything less believable and were often ridiculous.

The best part of the movie was Benedict Cumberbatch's performance as Smaug. He's one of those evil characters that makes you want to be a villain.

Winter Is Coming

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Posted : December 23, 2013 1:41 pm
Gretel liked
Lady Galadriel
(@lady-galadriel)
NarniaWeb Junkie

Well, here is my opinion, fresh back from the theatre (finally ;) ):

I actually liked it a fair amount -- maybe even more than the first movie. The pacing of the story (at least in the beginning and middle of the movie) is a lot more quick than the first movie. I found myself enjoying the faster pace. However, I might say that the fast pace was actually slowed down by the number and length of action sequences. If the action sequences had been cut in half, I'd have probably enjoyed the movie a lot more.

After leaving the theater, my relatives asked me what I thought (since I am known to be the biggest Hobbit fan in the family!). I replied that I had to think about my thoughts about the movie, because my feelings were honestly dazed. So, let's see if I can jot down some of my jumbled thoughts in an organized manner.

Where do I begin? Well, how about Smaug? He was awesome. He looked extremely frightening and also sounded very scary. He is the stuff of nightmare material, for sure. The way he was designed is very interesting, too. I have never seen a dragon that (spoilers about Smaug's physical appearance) :

Smaug, plot/scene spoilers:

Tauriel spoilers:

Gandalf spoilers, end of the movie:

End of the movie spoilers:

Somewhat abrupt, but these are the bulk of my main thoughts, so far.

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Posted : December 23, 2013 4:19 pm
King_Erlian
(@king_erlian)
NarniaWeb Guru

I saw Desolation Of Smaug last night. As a movie in its own right, I thought it was good - lots of action and tension. As an adaptation of the book, I thought it was terrible. The mood and feel was too dark all the way through - there were no (or very few) periods of light relief as there were in the book. For instance:

Spoiler
The meeting with Beorn. In the book, this was a funny scene, where Gandalf tricks Beorn into allowing thirteen dwarves and one hobbit into his house by having them appear two by two (with Bombur at the end), as he gradually relates to him the story of their escape from the orcs and wargs. In the movie, they were still running from the wargs and broke into Beorn's house, trapping Bear-Beorn's nose in the door for good measure. The book episode was a lighter moment between the tension of escaping from the Misty Mountains and entering Mirkwood, and literally allowed the dwarves, Gandalf and Bilbo to rest for a while. In the film, they were practically in and out.

Spoiler
The escape from the elves in the barrels. Again, in the book, this was quite light-hearted. In the film, this was another action scene full of danger as the orcs continued to pursue them. In the book, we didn't see any orcs/goblins from the arrival at Beorn's house to the Battle of Five Armies.

So, mixed feelings. And I too was a bit annoyed that there was no real ending as such - just a kind of "tune in next year for the next exciting episode!" There have been plenty of films where they've tied up the plot neatly and still had a cliffhanger for the next sequel, e.g. Back To the Future Part 2.

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Posted : December 23, 2013 10:44 pm
fantasia
(@fantasia)
Member Admin

Re: The Design of Smaug

Spoiler
I've seen a few people here remark on Smaug's arms being attached to his wings. One of my favorite dragon designs ever were the dragons in the movie 'Reign of Fire'. The dragons had the same bat-like design with the arm being part of the wing. I couldn't help but wonder if Smaug was partially inspired by the dragons in this movie.
http://justbeyondinfinity.files.wordpre ... efd2de.jpg
Though being a bit of a dragon nut, I've seen other images and artwork of dragons designed like this, so it's not unique to Smaug.

Actually, I have a question for those who have the book handy, wasn't Smaug red instead of black?

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Posted : December 23, 2013 11:36 pm
Varnafinde
(@varna)
Princess of the Noldor and Royal Overseer of the Talk About Narnia forum Moderator

On the color of Smaug - if he's depicted as black, that must be because of the darkness - I haven't seen the movie yet, so I don't know what it looks like. According to the book he's not a black dragon.

There he lay, a vast red-golden dragon, fast asleep; thrumming came from his jaws and nostrils, and wisps of smoke, but his fires were low in slumber.

The Hobbit, Chapter 12, Inside Information


(avi artwork by Henning Janssen)

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Topic starter Posted : December 24, 2013 2:22 am
Warrior 4 Jesus
(@warrior-4-jesus)
NarniaWeb Fanatic

Last night I saw The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug with some of my friends. I enjoyed the movie but it isn't what you would call a strict adaptation of Tolkien's novel.

The quality of the script fluctuates dramatically. It's strong in places, good in others and sometimes rather average, even poor. I didn't even mind PJ and co's story inventions when they were true to the characters, the spirit and the world of Middle-earth but sometimes the ideas they had were silly, counter-intuitive, long-winded or just dull.

The pacing is better than the first movie, but the second is still overly-long (two movies would've sufficed).

This is my biggest peeve with the movie.

Everything else in the movie, I either enjoyed or deemed satisfactory. Overall, I enjoyed some parts of The Desolation of Smaug more than some sections of An Unexpected Journey and vice-versa. Finally, I will add that Smaug is beyond majestic! A real treat.

Warning: Recommended for mature audiences - contains moderate fantasy violence

7.5/10

Currently watching:
Doctor Who - Season 11

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Posted : December 27, 2013 11:51 am
Pattertwigs Pal
(@twigs)
Member Moderator

There is a lot I want to comment on but I need to reread the book first. Or rather listen to it as I got the audio book for Christmas! :D Of course that is not going to stop me from commenting on somethings.

I had many worries going into this movie. I new it was really bad when the local newspaper loved it. They hated the first one.
The good parts ... um ... give me a minute ... um I'm sure there are some somewhere.
Well, it was more or less recognizable as the Hobbit.

And now additional comments that will be largely negative:

The movie was too ridiculous (unbelievable) to be considered a good movie. It definitely wasn't a good adaptation. It was however great for poking fun at.

Questions about the next movie


NW sister to Movie Aristotle & daughter of the King

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Posted : December 28, 2013 10:11 am
Warrior 4 Jesus
(@warrior-4-jesus)
NarniaWeb Fanatic

Wow. You're quite harsh on the movie, aren't you?
As for the little bit of romance, I thought it was only hinted at and quite reasonable (and I usually hate this sort of thing). I loved most of Smaug's scenes.

Currently watching:
Doctor Who - Season 11

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Posted : December 28, 2013 1:33 pm
Lady Galadriel
(@lady-galadriel)
NarniaWeb Junkie

Warrior 4 Jesus, I wouldn't have minded the romance if it hadn't come in the form of

Spoiler
basically love at first sight. Kili saw Tauriel, flirted with her, had a 5-10 minute conversation with her, and became deeply attached. It was the scene directly after she heals him, when he is wondering if she could ever love him, when I began disliking the romance. I wouldn't have minded if it had stayed in the form of a little Dwarf who has a fleeting crush on a tall, pretty female Elf. Why not? But when it turns into such high stakes as actual love between the two characters --- it's too quick and too cliché for me.

Pattertwigs Pal, I almost completely agree with you about the Elves. I enjoyed seeing Legolas again, especially in his hometown of Mirkwood, but I feel that the time in the movie that was spent developing Legolas and Tauriel could have been better spent developing scenes that are from the book. Here's the thing: the Hobbit is a fairly short book, and somehow they are managing to come up with three 2 1/2 hour movies. While doing this, how on earth did they come up with

Spoiler
rushing the scenes with Beorn, getting lost in the forest, Bombur falling asleep in the enchanted river, and even their imprisonment in the Elvish kingdom, while then spending so much time developing everything that wasn't in the book?

I also agree with you about

Spoiler
athelas being used to heal Kili. It's boring. It's been done before. Couldn't they have come up with something that wasn't so blatantly trying to throw back our memories to Arwen trying to heal Frodo in FotR?

I am curious to hear your thoughts about the Necromancer. The concept of his appearance in The Hobbit is interesting, but I don't know about the way they played him out. His single scene is fascinating visually, and very frightening and intense, and in that way, I liked it. However,

Spoiler
the imprisonment of Gandalf inside a cage
is too much for me. What do you think?

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Posted : December 28, 2013 2:41 pm
fantasia
(@fantasia)
Member Admin

Regarding Kili's injury:

Spoiler
It's interesting to me that so many peoples' issue with this plotline is specifically with the appearance of athelas. I was far more bothered by the fact that he gets shot with a Morgul arrow in the first place. The Morgul blade was unique to the Ringwraiths, otherwise every orc in the final battle in RotK would have been carrying them.

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Posted : December 28, 2013 3:38 pm
daughter of the King
(@dot)
Princess Dot Moderator

Re: Kili's injury:

Spoiler
Did they specify that it was a Morgul arrow, though? Or just a really potent poison? I don't remember them elaborating on his injury much other than Tauriel's "Oh no, the Dwarf I like is going to die!" reaction.

The thing that is really bugging me about the movie is a lot of the plot points are indirectly lifted from the book and Appendices, but they don't seem to fit well in the way they were added in to this part of the story. For instance,

Spoiler
Gandalf did find Thrain imprisoned in Dol Guldur, so there's where Gandalf investigating by himself comes in. The Necromancer beginning to draw his forces is in the book, but not as fast as in the movie. I've thought all along that Legolas would be the one to capture the Dwarves, although I was hoping for a bit more than a Gimli joke, angsting over the girl, and killing Orcs with the power of his CG body. Laketown politics did have a minor factor in the Dwarves' quest due to the greed of the Master of Laketown, and the Black Arrow did have a significant background. It just feels like in an attempt to extend the story across three films they fleshed out the minor points too much. Instead of focusing on Bilbo and Thorin, they introduced a lot of other stuff and then didn't resolve anything.

DoS, unlike TT, can't stand on its own as a complete story. TT was part of a larger story, but it had a definite rising and falling plot, character development, and conclusion. DoS doesn't have that. The fake-out over killing Smaug was a good idea in theory, but I think one of the plot points should have been given a definite conclusion. The movie feels incomplete as it is.

ahsokasig
Narniaweb sister to Pattertwig's Pal

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Posted : December 28, 2013 5:55 pm
Pattertwigs Pal
(@twigs)
Member Moderator

Wow. You're quite harsh on the movie, aren't you?

Me? Well, I guess I probably came across that way. The first part about finding good stuff was meant to be funny. If I can't get pleasure out of praising a lot of similarities, I'm going to get it out of nitpicking. ;)) I'm not really sure how I feel about the movie. Oh, it will end up in my movie collection. And I think I like it better than TT. Basically, I think of it more as annoying than as something to despise. Worthy of rolling eyes. Added action 8-| Added romance 8-| Added not so polite humor 8-|

@FK and Dot


NW sister to Movie Aristotle & daughter of the King

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Posted : December 30, 2013 4:21 am
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