But I think you and probably many of the girls on NWeb are exceptions: from our sons' observations in high school, many girls dress for others, whether guy or girl. How sad is that?!

*sneaks a reply in*
I agree with you--way too many girls have fallen into that trap. I know the feeling--you think "but guys don't like this" or "but he said he thinks that looks stupid" and then you find yourself doing this or doing that in hopes of finally making yourself into what they want---then I realized "hey! that's stupid, just be who you want to be, and if they don't like you then they're not worth it. And if they do, then great!"

But one the other hand, there's people who like to spend a long time playing around with make up or their outfits not because they feel they need it to be accepted by their peers or liked by guys, but because they enjoy it as an art form.

Completely agree! Very well said.

re: the amount of money spent on the cosmetics industry--I can't speak for everyone else, but for myself...well, back when I had actual money to spend, I'd often have a big shopping spree on sephora.com, and when my dad would process the order for me he'd be like "THIS MUCH MONEY ON MAKEUP!?" and my mom would be like "But Laura, don't you already HAVE mascara/eyeliner/lipgloss/whatever?!"
I've never seen makeup as something that you have one eyeliner...one mascara...one lipgloss--and you use them till they're gone and then you buy a replacement. No, to me, cosmetics is something I want variety in. I like having lots of colors and textures to choose from Different "looks" call for different tools/colors. And then there's always some new, exciting, product to try out. I don't deny that sometimes I spend too much money on that sort of thing--I'm definetly a bit of a shopaholic after all -- but I try to balance it out with buying other, more needed, things (and saving money! lol). I see my makeup as sort of an artists supplies--I've got to have a huge variety of shades and colors and tools for creating just the right masterpiece.

I'm not going to comment on everything you ladies have said, but it is fascinating and I read every word. I remember in High School being exasperated that guys always said they liked girls who were natural, themselves, and wore less makeup--and then they dated girls that showed otherwise. I used to dress/do my hair for other people, but I've been doing whatever I want for a few years now and I think I've never been better dressed or happier with how I see myself. (Confidence has a lot more factors than just this, but this is one of them).

Going back to the hair coloring question: I have never dyed my hair, but I have thought about it. I'm a blond, so I don't want to go darker because I heard that your hair will darken. I might go lighter, but honestly, I'm so thankful I've remained blond this long that I really like my hair color a lot. My hair has darkened over the years, but it's still blond. I hope it stays blond because the I've always been a blond and I don't think I could be a brunette, but I also don't want to be one of those people constantly getting their roots touched up.

'Tis interesting to read your thoughts, Shantih and Val. Thanks for putting up with me in this.

I think a person's motivation is what's important here, more than anything else.

Definitely! Sadly, as I said above, too many girls—in our area, anyway—seem to do it for the lesser reason.

I guess a large part of all this is that I've never had the slightest inkling of a large interest in fashion or make-up—thinking it somewhat too self-focused, to be honest, so have kind of rebelled against it. I've never thought of it as an art form. Interesting! Also, I guess I've never before known a girl who is super interested in these areas who isn't stuck on herself, so you're enlightening me, and I appreciate it ... as to where you're coming from.

Still, I really struggle with a verse such as "He [Christ] must increase, and I must decrease", hastening to add I don't think in any way thing we're to look like slouches and dumps ... by no means. But I'm sincerely trying to reconcile spending much time, effort, and money on our bodies that are solely just our temporal 'tents', so have a sincere puzzlement about that, as well as how this area can help point people to Christ. (??) But this would be a topic for the C.R. & P. thread.

Oh, and Laura, I was talking about the actresses, not the girl who did the tutorial when I mentioned about the skin-and-bones-look.

And I must say, I've seen guys be quite consistent when they say that they'd prefer to date girls who aren't spending too much time on themselves: those who appreciate the natural look and beauty with which God created us.

I think it's good to realize where each of us are coming from though. ..... I see my makeup as sort of an artists supplies--I've got to have a huge variety of shades and colors and tools for creating just the right masterpiece.

Thanks for this!

*waves to Kate and her input too*

I'm not too big on make-up and my guy friends compliment me a lot on that when I hang out with them. They say I'm not like the other girls they know who will spend an hour or more just to concentrate on my make up and hair. So yeah to answer your question Shantih most guys appreciate girls who are rather confident with how they look without a lot of make up that take up too much time.

My hair is permanently straight every time I wash it. It used to be curly and thick like that girl from Princess Diaries, but I wanted to get this fixed when I was entering middle school.

As for my make up I use a natural creme with jergens, light blush, brown eyeshadow, black eye pencil(not a lot, it's very thin) and one lip gloss, that's it.

Makeup: I seriously spend like 5 minutes putting on mine . I only wear eyeliner and mascara, and sometimes foundation. I'll put on eyeshadow for special events and that's it. Sometimes I'll put on lip gloss, but not usually.

Hair: I've never colored it. My mom said I could when I turned 15 but my dad said no . I'm still trying to convince him . If/when I can I'm going to use a combination of beet and carrot juice and turmeric to make it orangey-red .

I don't wear make up as a fashion statement or to impress guys -- honestly, it's just because I think I look absolutely disgusting without it. I have pretty bad acne, so if I don't wear at least foundation, I'm pretty scary looking.

Ahaha, I need to post a picture of me wearing my "guyliner" sometime.

MissAravis all I can say is, every girl I know that says that is already beautiful without it

Ahaha, I need to post a picture of me wearing my "guyliner" sometime.

lol! I love your word for eyeliner when men use it!

I think Jo makes some extremely valid points. Sure, they might not apply to you personally, but it's probably the exception to be interested in make-up merely for the art factor or the me factor (ah, NW! ). And it's always good to take on board a healthy reminder not to obsess about anything in general, and... if you're a Christian, to make sure make-up is the right number down your list of priorities. That said, I do love my shopping and think personal appearance is important; however even so I am frequently asked by my mother if I 'am wearing any make up?!'.

I like to pack on my brown/black mascara, and neutral lip colours/balms; apply a healthy serving of (the right colour!) foundation, a smidge of dark brown and teal eyeliners, some bronzer or blush and I'm done. I usually do this in the car, too. Not the safest -and the lighting's not ideal at 6.30 in the morning, but I get by and frequently get asked what foundation I'm using and if my eyelashes run in the family -so I like to think I get half of it right.

As a guy, I think girls look best with no makeup or just a little to accentuate their natural beauty. None of this caked on the face, old romance writer look - Ick.

sandy, if you're wearing a P&P-ish dress, I'd say go light on the makeup.
I really think a winged-eyeliner look would look fab, though! It goes with anything and manages to look both bold and not to in-your-face.

Thanks Valiant_Lucy! . It really helped me a lot. . I better try that on!

The cake-face is a chronic condition that seems to largely affect women and girls with either very pale, or very dark skin. Maybe they need to invent some new foundation colours? Because even if you cake it on, it shouldn't matter all that much if it's the right shade -that's something that's worth while spending time on. Just my slightly-more-than-2-cents.

Also, bat wings are cool! (actually, maybe more like baby bat wings are cool)

Lol, Andrew. That's what a lot of people say, but then when people see me without make up, they're like, "Did you get enough sleep last night? Are you okay?" It's just a balance. I guess I try to wear enough to look alive but not so much that it looks fake.

I'm wondering if this whole no junk-food/lots of fruits/tea/healthy stuff works... I have heard so many doctors say that the food you eat doesn't affect your skin. I find this hard to believe. I've tried prescription topical acne medication and all it did was burn and dry out my face. I switched to Clinique's 3-in-one acne treatment, and at first it seemed to be improving the condition of my skin, but over the past year it's just gotten worse again. I'm still using it, and I guess maybe it would be even worse without it, but maybe I should really try to eliminate all unhealthy foods. When I was a baby I had really bad skin and my mom put me on an all-organic diet, and it cleared up immediately. I don't know if that'll work now.

Andrew and Warrior 4 Jesus, I agree with you both.

I have makeup, but I only wear all of it (lipstick, eyeshadow, eyeliner, mascara, and blush, never foundation) when I'm going out somewhere fancy or special. Otherwise, I stick to just one or two of those elements, but when I'm having a bad acne day all I use is cleanser because my pores are likely to get clogged.
I'd recommend that practice to anyone with acne issues: don't use foundation or if you must use it, use a natural kind.
Adding more gunk to your skin can only compound the problem.

My aunt is a cosmetologist and she told me that teenagers don't need foundation, since its purpose is even out the skin tone and we usually don't have to deal with blotches that older people get. If there's one pimple that is really bothering you, then maybe try a dab of concealer on that one spot-- though I'd still say it's better to leave it alone.

I've never dyed my hair. It's a very light brown (think caramel) and it gets blond streaks in the summer sun. I might dye it all blond when I begin my career, since research has shown that blondes earn 7% more than women with other color hair (just kidding. sorta.)

MissAravis, I cut sugar from my diet a few months ago and since then my skin has really improved. I still get a breakout here and there (Hormones. Bah!) but my acne is nowhere near as bad as it used to be. Plus, I feel a whole lot better in general. The absence of sugar highs and lows has been really good for me.

And get plenty of sleep.