Puddleglum, true. I dare say she would be suffering spiritually as a result of that too.

Conina, I doubt it. Great evil has been happening since The Fall, there's just more exposure in the media than before. That said, it's possible.

Wolfloversk, I understand that it's just that the time-travel analogy, while cool, is a little silly and not terribly useful when you're trying to disuade someone from getting involved with spirits. No worries though, analogies are rarely, if ever, water-tight.

I don't think I could stop my grandparents from meeting even if I tried. And I don't know how going back in time could risk the fate of the world...I don't think I could single handedly destroy the world now, so I don't see how I could do it if I went back in time.

Anyway no...I doubt the world is ending now.

It's amazing what I missed in the last few hours. MD, what I was talking about in regards to invitations is EXACTLY what you are about to meddle with. Just by even considering going into that realm is telling me there is a demon alredy there. I don't think it would be able to do anything yet, but the moment you use that board, that door opens. And some doors, once they are open, they can be VERY difficult to shut. This is not a lesson you want to learn the hard way. Trust me. I've dealt with these demons head on. They are very powerful and the only way to truly get rid of them is through the power and authority of Jesus.

I've already mentioned a few times about my encounter with my co-worker. While everything was happening between him and I, he told me this demon came into the picture when he had three witches summon one up. He would not let them do the ritual to send it back because he thought it was bogus. Guess what? It's not. Then later, he told me that he found the book they used for the spell and how he planned to send it back on his own. He then described this very elaborate process that required exact precision to carry out. I warned him strictly not to do it because one of two things would happen. 1). It wouldn't work and the demon would just up the ante. Or 2). It would go but an even stronger demon would take it's place. That is how these things work. To 'cast' out a demon through methods other than Jesus, most of the time it requires a 'seal' to be set and that seal must be with a spirit stronger than the one you are trying to get out. Well, a house divided against itself cannot stand, so demons won't truly drive out each other. They will just swich places and the situation may or may not appear to get better. And in either case, they've accomplished thier goal: to keep you away from Jesus.

I truly believe that you have absolutely no clue what you dealing with. It sounds like innocent games and harmless, but if you want to experience living a true nightmare, that is your choice. Not every case is the same, but many times these demons require to be appeased in the late hour which leads many to insomnia And insomnia leads to exhaustion, weakness, and much more. People who have let these demons in their lives often are continually scared of something. Any relationships they have become a target because demons love to isolate people. Do want to experience being afraid to be in your own home because you don't know what is going to pop up when. These people tend to get easily angered over the littlist things, which only feeds the situation, and then they end up doing things they later regret.

Now not everyone who deals with demons tends to get that treatment. There are many that appear to live successful lives while dealing in the occult. Unfortunately these people have essentially given their souls to the devil and they will do Satan's requests in a heartbeat. They often have miraculous powers such as knowing stuff they shouldn't, levitation of self or objects (I'm not talking illusion, I'm talking the real thing), and they can level curses that will cause trouble to whomever they choose. I have a friend who at one point could even conjure and conrol fire through 'magic'. That power consumed him and at one point, he even cursed his twin brother who was an active Christian at that time. I don't remember how God rescued him from it, but it was about to destroy him. The thing these people don't realize is that at any given moment, the demons they think they control will one day suddenly turn on them and then it will be too late.

As many others have indicated, the occult is never to be taken lightly. As I've said to others, I have a gift of spiritual discernemnt. I don't really know how to explain it but I can sense things in the spiritual realm better than most people. This is what my spirit is telling me if you go through with this. If you decide to go ahead and test this ouiji board, just to see what may happen, for a while nothing will. It may be a few day or weeks, but nothing out of the ordinary outisde the immediate use of that board will happen. But after that time of peace passes, it will be over. It won't be a sudden rush of things taking place, like dishes flying off the shelves right at your face without any warning. It will be very subtle and very gradual.

It will start with a sense of a presense that you can feel but cannot see. You will think it is behind you, you will turn, and nothing and no one will be there. It will only happen on occasion at first but in time it will escalate. You will soon find things changing locations, such as cubboard doors suddenly being left open, an open door will be shut, or a toy or object will be moved. You will start to hear things. It may come in the form of footsteps where no one should be taking them. It will take its time and you may or may not brush it off as something not worth taking notice of.

At some point it is going to escalate. It may suddenly show its face to you in the mirror or in a mist while you sleep at night. Be wary of sparkling lights that in a movie might make you think of a fairy or lightning bug. These are called sprites and they can attack viciously. It may also physically assault you. I have another friend who was listening to my story and the friend I mentioned above who got into magic, and she described getting assaulted by a demonic being. She couldn't move and it violated her, but when it was over, it was gone. People have received deep scratches, often in sets of three like a cat's claws, with no visible source of the attack. Others have been kicked and hit where no one is there to do it. These things will not just happen to you, they will happen to any in that home and any who join you in this exursion. You will be afraid to sleep because you will feel you are being watched or you will know someone is in your room with you. I'll stop there because I would hope you are getting the picture.

I pray I am not speaking a prophecy about what will happen to you, but if you do this and this does happen, don't say I didn't warn you. I will say this, if anything I have described does happen, find the nearest church you can that truly preaches the Gospel, and get help IMMEDIATELY. And be prepared the answer this question truthfully: "Have you asked Jesus to be your personal Lord and Savior?" I can help you from a distance in whatever way I can, but if this stuff starts happening, you will need a solid Christian physically present to be there with you to help you drive it out.

And while this is not necessarily the best time for a typical book plug, I do recommend you read my book. The link to the Amazon page where it is listed in on my signature. While it is a fiction novel, I go into what happens in this type of situation and I go into details on how and why Christians have what it takes to overcome this kind of stuff. It may waken you up to see what is really going on and what you need to do about it.

Fencer, I am already an insomniac (and now I take sleeping pills for it) and weird stuff that you have described has already happened to me multiple times. I just don't really let it bother me. My friends and I went to a graveyard that was supposedly haunted and attempted to call up the ghosts that haunted it. Nothing happened but like you said I did begin to feel unsafe in my own home when I was home for the summer and became paranoid/hearing noises, unable to sleep, etc. Then it wore off and I got over it. The reason I can't sleep without sleeping pills now is because of medical reasons and has nothing to do with anything else. I think fear is fed when we let our minds and imaginations get the best of us. I don't really think that there's anything to be afraid of.

What are sprites?

I hope you are seeing the connections I am seeing, but I don't think you are. Especially now that you mentioned the graveyard incident, you already made the invitation. And don't you find it interesting that I already described what would happen in essentially the same order that it did, without me knowing it? That means this is something you really need to pay attention to. I am dead serious what I say you are pretty much in a 'eye of the storm'. If you try to Ouiji Board, you will enter the next phase and it will get worse. And this time, it won't be gradual. Like with depression, your insomina might have medical reasons now, but those aren't the cause. They were just the symptoms of what happened earlier.

You don't think there's anything to be afraid of? You haven't seen anything yet. These sprites are look like fireflies, just balls light or lightning that literally fly around the room. At first they may seem harmless or interesting, but have you ever been attacked by a swarm of bees? It will be like that only you cannot touch them, but they can touch you. This is just one manifestation that demons take. And again, I didn't tell you everything that's going to take place if this going much further.

Just for spite, you may find objects suddenly hurled at you. Dishes, lamps, or even knives. Objects that you find solace in may be shattered. Those pills may stop working and many sleeping pills I've heard of tend to be habit forming. I am very serious that it is not going to be pretty and you are not going to like it. Seriously consider what I've said. It is not a coincidence with what you have experienced. God is trying to get your attention and when what I decribed and what you have experience lined up so closely, that means it's time to pay attention. If it gets worse for you, it will be just like my co-worker. All I will be able to do is pray.

I don't think I could stop my grandparents from meeting even if I tried. And I don't know how going back in time could risk the fate of the world...I don't think I could single handedly destroy the world now, so I don't see how I could do it if I went back in time.

It's not as hard as it may sound... I could recommend a few sci-fi novels/stories that deal with the subject, although they're fiction they demonstrate how easy it is.
Secondly I would heed Fencer's warning if I were you. Especially if you experienced some of that stuff before. There's a great Shakespeare quote from MacBeth that deals with similar things as this.

And oftentimes, to win us to our harm,
The instruments of darkness tell us truths,
Win us with honest trifles, to betray's
In deepest consequence.

How do you know that they (the demons) didn't just stop for a while to make you think that nothing would happen or to take it less seriously? They will trick you by either hiding the whole truth or mixing it with falsehoods. And thirdly, I have a feeling it's no coincidence that you brought it up here and that the majority of us agree it is a bad idea... it might be a sign- it might be your last warning, MLD. Do as you wish, but every arrow I see leads to a very dark and dangerous place. As Fencer said if you try and run into trouble I will pray for you and do whatever else I can, but prayer and faith is about the only thing I can do from this distance. (At least there is a lot of power in even those two things, but be warned- it will probably end very badly if you should try these things. I can not emphasize that enough!)

I don't have the gift of discernment like Fencer here. And I think some of your issues are stress related rather than demons BUT I and many others believe demons are very real and not to be messed with. We shouldn't look for demons under every little bush, but nor should we ignore their existence altogether. This could get really ugly if you don't stop to think about what we're saying. We're not trying to ruin your fun, we're looking out for you.

It's my impression that the ancestor time-travel paradox is usually used to indicate the impossibility of time travel, not that doing so might destroy the world.

And you would be willing to break the space-time continuum to do it? Lets say you go back in time but you cause your grandparents to have never met? You wouldn't be able to enjoy it for very long would you? You wouldn't be able to fix it because you would no longer exist...

But there's more to the paradox than this. It's usually stated something like:

1. You go back in time and in some fashion prevent your parents/grandparents/whatever from meeting or from being born.
2. The result is that you were never born, so you could not go back in time to cause this.
3. Consequently, your ancestors do meet (because you weren't around to prevent it) and you were born.
4. But now you can go back and change things again...

And so on.

Time travel stories are great - I grew up on the classics and enjoy them today. But they're a reminder that the arrow of time points only one direction, forward. In that sense, we're all time travelers.

Regarding an impending end of the world, I'm with Warrior: natural disasters and the like have always been a part of history; we're just so much more aware of them now, thanks to virtually instant communications worldwide. Big events happened in the past, but it may have taken months for the news to spread worldwide. Consider the 1883 explosion of Krakatoa, which is incredible on any scale.

To be sure, the world will eventually end...but "no one knows" the day or hour (Matthew 24:36).

That's one reason (theologically speaking) why I don't think the end will come on December 21, 2012. There are others, including bogus science and some scholarly claims that this is a modern interpretation imposed on the surviving Mayan records (most of which were destroyed), but that's probably off topic for now.

Not every case is the same, but many times these demons require to be appeased in the late hour which leads many to insomnia And insomnia leads to exhaustion, weakness, and much more. People who have let these demons in their lives often are continually scared of something. Any relationships they have become a target because demons love to isolate people. Do want to experience being afraid to be in your own home because you don't know what is going to pop up when. These people tend to get easily angered over the littlist things, which only feeds the situation, and then they end up doing things they later regret.

I have an anxiety disorder. I'm kind of a worrywart and things like coffee aggravate the thing. It doesn't help that I work nightshift and need caffiene to make it through shifts...suffice it to say I worry about one thing and that leads to another thing and then before too long I'm a nervous wreck and can't sleep for worry. I try to counter this by using humor but occasionally I'll get snappish with people, although this is rare. This is a medical condition...I don't discount the idea that a demon may cause some of these issues, but it would be God using those issues to bring me closer to Him, and in many ways that would make a lot of sense (ie; letting go of my burdens and handing them to God to handle, and He'd do an infinitely better job of it). But to be honest it could be (and likely is) just a medical condition on its own merit.

Especially now that you mentioned the graveyard incident, you already made the invitation.

I agree...what makes it so seemingly harmless to so many people is this abundance of "Ghost Reality" shows on TV. The host of Ghost Adventures runs around purportedly haunted locales and openly challenges stuff to come out and attack him, and the stuff follows him home. They don't understand the basics that it's not ghosts they're dealing with but something much worse. So folks watch that at home, want a visceral scary experience, and might attempt it someplace traditionally scary, like an old house or a graveyard. And when something unwittingly follows them home...well, that can be terrifying stuff indeed...a bit more than one bargains for. These shows are fascinating to watch and quite frightening, sort of like watching a train wreck, especially since I know what it is they're messing with (and it ain't ghosts).

Moonlight, I sincerely hope you don't do any playing around with Ouija boards, or cavort anymore in your local graveyard trying to summon spirits. But if something should happen and you feel you're in danger or in a tight spot, call on God, in your mind or audibly. The name of Christ is like spiritual kryptonite to entities such as this and they will scamper off when God is called. Please keep that in the front of your mind at all times, especially if you're seeing/feeling some of the things you say you are. These beings are quite real and mean you extreme ill will.

Just so the rest of you are clear on my intent, I do agree that demons are not the only cause of insomnia or stress. I was just pointing out that they do cause it. The stress can come from demonic presences as well. But as some of you have said, it's not always demonic. My mom experienced depression for a few years and it was interestingly enough very closely tied to the first mission outreach we did 21 years ago. Was it demonic induced? I don't have enough information to say that. But was it a mere chemical imbalance? I don't think so. There was something either spiritual or emotional that happened which sparked it. I don't know what it was. I can't rule out demons, but I can't say with any kind of certainty. Another friend of mine's depression was demonically induced based on how she described what was happening throughout it.

And in regards to the end of the world, I have good reason to suspect it will come in my life-time. I am ready for it, but I also won't be shocked if it doesn't happen. The signs do indicate we are getting closer. The Bible does say their willl be earthquakes, wars, and rumors of wars. We have had only two 9.0 quakes or higher prior to this decade, then we've had three in less than 10 years. War is happening everyone. But this I know. The End Times will not happen until every tribe every tongue has been reached with the Gospel message. It also will not happen until every at least major nation experience public persecution of the church. It hasn't happened in America yet, but it's coming.

Yes, but those are the recorded earthquakes. I'm sure there were many, many more terrible earthquakes before they had the Richter Scale and seismographs.

As for the demon talk, you have to be careful to not overstate their powers and abilities. When I get stressed, it's not demons, it's something called circumstances, certain people and the result of living in a fallen world. When I experienced several years of depression it wasn't because of demons. It's possible that both stress and depression can be influenced by them but it's going too far to look for a demon under almost every bush (just as I mentioned before). That said depression can (in some cases) result from a disconnect between a person and God as a result of unrepented sin or something similar. There are three influences when it comes to sin - Satan and his demons, our human flesh (original sin etc.) and the world in which we live. We often give too much room to the first one, don't pay enough attention to the second one and blame our sins much of the time on the third and final.
But you know all of this already. Maybe your post just wasn't clear about what you meant.

Warrior 4 Jesus, I agree the main thing to know about demons is that God is stronger and that we can call on God. I like to look up verses about God's promises and when I get scared thinking about demons or anything else I like to claim the promises for myself and it helps.

but whoever listens to me will live in safety
and be at ease, without fear of harm. Proverbs 1:33 NIV

In peace I will lie down and sleep,
for you alone, LORD,
make me dwell in safety. Psalms 4:8 NIV

That second one has helped me when I have a hard time falling asleep.

MLD, you seem to me as if you are searching for proof in the existence of the supernatural. Some people here have warned that you might find something that entraps you or wants to hurt you. My feeling is that no matter what you find its not giong to satisfy the actual reason why you are searching because you are looking in the wrong place to start with.

I spent a lot of years looking in the wrong places to fill the hollowness- not in graveyards but I put a lot more energy into my friends, my family and my boyfriend than my relationship with God. I went through an experience where everything fell apart at once (boyfriend and I broke up, I lost all my friends and my family fell apart in the same week). It was the worst and best thing that I have been through in my life. I just got in my car and drove out to the middle of nowhere and cried and asked God for help and that's when I became a christian in truth and not just in name. And everything in my life has changed after that in ways I never would have expected. My new friendships I've made have been stronger and more meaningful, I switched majors in college and now have a much more fullfilling career than I would have. I've had opportunities that I never would have thought possible before such as a scholarship to go to Italy for a summer to study art, and God using me to run a youth group this year. So if you are looking for meaning or adventure- the place to look for it is through a relationship with God not in a graveyard.

This isn't a story a share very often but I hope it is helpful to somebody.

I hope you are seeing the connections I am seeing, but I don't think you are. Especially now that you mentioned the graveyard incident, you already made the invitation. And don't you find it interesting that I already described what would happen in essentially the same order that it did, without me knowing it? That means this is something you really need to pay attention to. I am dead serious what I say you are pretty much in a 'eye of the storm'. If you try to Ouiji Board, you will enter the next phase and it will get worse. And this time, it won't be gradual. Like with depression, your insomina might have medical reasons now, but those aren't the cause. They were just the symptoms of what happened earlier.

Well, I thought it was fun. I've been watching horror movies since I was ten years old and after every horror movie I watched, I'd stay up all night worrying and afraid. It was always fun to be scared which is why I kept watching them. Then after awhile horror movies stopped scaring me so my friends and I did other things to give ourselves the creeps, such as going to the "haunted" graveyard and other haunted places at midnight. Then that worked for awhile and kept me up awake scared, but then that too wore off. I do stay up late sometimes but I am no longer paranoid or letting my imagination get the best of me, and I doubt that will ever happen to me again because I've pretty much grown out of it.

This could get really ugly if you don't stop to think about what we're saying. We're not trying to ruin your fun, we're looking out for you.

Well thank you I appreciate that.

Moonlight, I sincerely hope you don't do any playing around with Ouija boards, or cavort anymore in your local graveyard trying to summon spirits.

I'll keep this in mind.

MLD, you seem to me as if you are searching for proof in the existence of the supernatural. Some people here have warned that you might find something that entraps you or wants to hurt you. My feeling is that no matter what you find its not giong to satisfy the actual reason why you are searching because you are looking in the wrong place to start with.

Well if I did discover something I'd have to start believing in God too, which is not what the demons want, right? So why would they reveal themselves to me.

PS: my friends are chickening out so we might not do it after all...but my roommate is still game. We just have to find a guy to go with us for practical safety.

Just throwing this out there, but everyone is aware that Ouija boards are toys, right? As in actually created by a toy company. Any activity happening during their use is usually caused by someone's friend getting bored over the lack of action

Of course if you believe in demons then you could still posit that one could use this method, but then you might as all say it about anything.

MoonlightDancer,

Well if I did discover something I'd have to start believing in God too, which is not what the demons want, right? So why would they reveal themselves to me.

Maybe to distract you from seeking a relationship with God. Believing in God's existence isn't enough to be saved. The Bible says that the demons believe in God.

But I think you're doing a perfectly good job of distracting yourself. You earlier used a rollercoaster analogy and on this page you're talking about scary movies not working and looking for a bigger scare. Why do people (in general) want to be scared? An antidote to boredom? An attempt to fill the gaping void that's in everyone? Or something else? I don't see how there is anything worthwhile in it beyond the adrenaline high. If you want to make yourself a nervous wreck just take a lot of caffeine and be done. You'll get the same sleeplessness and racing heart.