Thank you for your excellent explanation. It clears up a lot. I suppose if Jupiter is in the Southern part of the ecliptic then maybe Saturn is not all that far away, either, & also in the Southern Eliptic. We have seen that planet also, occasionally, once through the Sydney Observatory at Dawes Point in Sydney, itself. It looks like a little hat in the sky. 

To clarify where the Tropic of Capricorn is, at 23.5 degrees South, if you draw a line through Rockhampton (QLD), Alice Springs (NT) and Newman (WA) it is there. It also passes through Madagascar, Mozambique, Botswana & Namibia in Africa plus Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay & Chile in South America. 

Sydney is at 34 degrees South of the Equator, maybe not as far south as I like to think?  

Posted by: @stargazer

I managed to see a couple of Perseids (including a magnitude -3.5 meteor that covered about 25 degrees in the southeast sky.

Very, very nice, stargazer!   And what fun to see the SpaceX Cargo Dragon unexpectedly!

Aahhh, @waggawerewolf27, that Southern Cross must be quite something to see!

This morning, I had my first walk under the night sky since probably mid-late May or so. It was glorious! Orion and bright Sirius were climbing in the SE; the Gemini twins looked like they were carrying the crescent moon with them; Cygnus was still visible lower in the NW; Cassiopeia was almost at the zenith. This expansive starry view was akin to seeing very old and good friends again.  

Posted by: @stargazer

I've never seen the Southern Cross but would like to someday.

I have to admit (as an Aussie) it's not very big or noticeable — at least, not the four stars that make up the cross itself (the whole constellation, technically called Crux, is bigger). There are one or two other groups of stars that can be mistaken for it and it's quite hard to find if you don't know exactly what to look for. I was taught when I was little to always look out for the two Pointers (Alpha and Beta Centauri) and follow them to find the cross. Once you know it, you can't miss it!  

Interestingly, according to Wikipedia, the Southern Cross was visible from the Northern Hemisphere a few thousand years ago — the ancient Greeks knew it. But the position of the Earth in relation to the stars has changed since then... you astronomers will understand that part better than I do.  

Talking of stars and where they're visible from, I encountered a jaw-dropping error in a children's TV show just yesterday. I was at the British Library, where they have an exhibition on Paddington Bear — very sweet, but one section included a video clip from the most recent TV version of Paddington (The Adventures of Paddington on Nick Jr.) that had Paddington doing some stargazing to find a meteor shower. One of his friends shows him the "Two Bears" made out of stars in the sky — the Great Bear and Little Bear — and the meteors are in between them.

Paddington then wonders if his dear Aunt Lucy, back in Peru, will be able to see the same meteor shower. Yes, the other character assures him, because she'll see the same stars — "that's something that unites us all over the world", or words to that effect — and Paddington just has to tell Aunt Lucy to look for the two bears in the sky and she'll see the meteors too.

... To be fair, I'm not sure if Ursa Major and Minor are visible at all from Peru — it's not that far below the equator compared to Australia — but as a native of very far south in the southern hemisphere, I felt like writing a Strongly Worded Letter to whoever wrote the script for that program and giving them a lesson in basic astronomy!!!  

Nice catch, @Courtenay! Such a large shift in latitude definitely makes a big difference! The Big Dipper (Ursa Major's main asterism) is sometimes visible from Lima, but the Pole Guardians (the second and third brightest stars in Ursa Minor) barely rise above the horizon there. (And Polaris is invisible anywhere south of the equator).

I've not seen such a large difference in latitude as you have; it'd be fun to discuss your reaction to seeing the northern stars for the first time. (My most extreme experience is when I traveled to the far south of Texas (latitude 26N). The Big Dipper, which is always visible here, was sticking up out of the ground. Bizarre! And I was able to see the bright Southern star Canopus for the first time; it never rises here).

I've heard that Northerners seeing the Southern Cross for the first time are sometimes surprised at how small it is.

Posted by: @courtenay

the Southern Cross was visible from the Northern Hemisphere a few thousand years ago — the ancient Greeks knew it. But the position of the Earth in relation to the stars has changed since then

The fancy word for this effect is precession. The earth is kind of like a top winding down; its axis slowly traces out a circle and changes what the poles point at (and what is visible from a given location). In about 13,000 years (about half a cycle), stars like Sirius will be invisible (and Orion will hug the horizon) from northern locations, while stars low for us (like Sagittarius and even Crux) will be much higher as seen from the north.

Your walk sounds lovely, @jo. I was able to spot Sirius rising just the other day (the same morning I saw the Cargo Dragon and ISS), though the moon was by Aldebaran then. I so enjoy watching the stars of winter rise early in the morning, signalling cooler weather ahead, but also offering a view of Orion without freezing. 😉

wagga, it happens that Saturn is not too far from Jupiter right now, about 20 degrees to its west. It's a lot dimmer, so it stands out less than Jove does, though it's in a rather dim constellation now (Capricornus), so it has little competition.

Posted by: @stargazer

Nice catch, @Courtenay! Such a large shift in latitude definitely makes a big difference! The Big Dipper (Ursa Major's main asterism) is sometimes visible from Lima, but the Pole Guardians (the second and third brightest stars in Ursa Minor) barely rise above the horizon there. (And Polaris is invisible anywhere south of the equator).

Thanks! Good to have it confirmed. I take it there's somewhere you can look up which stars are visible from which locations — or have you been stargazing in Peru yourself?  

Posted by: @stargazer

I've not seen such a large difference in latitude as you have; it'd be fun to discuss your reaction to seeing the northern stars for the first time.

I'd love to, once I've seen them clearly enough to have a reaction... I've been in the UK nearly 10 years, but there's always either been too much light pollution, or the skies are just too cloudy, for me to be able to see enough stars to notice much of a difference! And I'm a rank amateur, anyway — I can only recognise two constellations, the Southern Cross (all right, technically an asterism) and Orion. Plus three individual stars — Alpha Centauri, Beta Centauri and Sirius, because I know where they are in relation to the Southern Cross and Orion's belt respectively. That's as far as I've ever managed to get with astronomy, sadly.

I have seen Orion once or twice over here and it's like seeing an old friend in an unexpected place, except he's upside down. So is the Moon.  

Posted by: @stargazer

I've heard that Northerners seeing the Southern Cross for the first time are sometimes surprised at how small it is.

That surprised me too, when I first learned how to spot it when I was little! And yet we make such a big deal of it on our flag...

@johobbit: Aahhh,@waggawerewolf27, that Southern Cross must be quite something to see!

I think it depends in what context it is seen. As Courtenay says, you have to look for the two pointers, Alpha Centauri & Beta Centauri, & the distinct angle they make with the left hand star helps me to find it. Alpha Centauri one of the brighter & more spectacular stars in the Southern sky, and the stars associated with these pointers are among the closest to our own solar system.  I am not familiar with many constellations, with Scorpio, Taurus, Orion & the Southern Cross being just about my limit. Like Courtenay, I, too, was told by my mother how to find the Southern Cross, using the pointers, which tend to make the Southern Cross look larger & more impressive than it is, I guess. I linked to a Wikipedia article since I don't really understand all the technical details, including what is meant by a degree in astronomy as opposed to geography or temperature. 

These days I have to look harder, due to light pollution from Sydney, which obscures the right hand star & the little one just under it. I've also heard that there is a way to use Alpha Centauri to find the direction of the South Pole. 

@stargazer: wagga, it happens that Saturn is not too far from Jupiter right now, about 20 degrees to its west. It's a lot dimmer, so it stands out less than Jove does, though it's in a rather dim constellation now (Capricornus), so it has little competition.

  Thank you for the information. When the weather clears up - yes, we are actually getting some rain now - I'll see if I can find it. I don't really think I know what Capricornus looks like, but it is about time I learned, as a January old woman.  

@courtenay 

I always wondered if there is a place on Earth where both the northern and southern crosses can be clearly seen, although it’s probably not on the same night. The northern cross is of course in Cygnus, one of the most beautiful constellations in our sky. I have so many fond memories of seeing it on August and September nights. I believe the cross is called a asterism, which is a recognizable figure in a constellation, e.g., the Big Dipper in Ursa Major.  Our wonderful planet, the Earth, gets in the way of seeing some of the southern constellations. It would be great for northern observers to see the Magellanic Clouds and Southern Cross, but they are hidden from us unless we travel south.  I can’t imagine being without Polaris, though, as it is always my personal Northern Star.  🙂

Posted by: @narnian78

I always wondered if there is a place on Earth where both the northern and southern crosses can be clearly seen, although it’s probably not on the same night. The northern cross is of course in Cygnus, one of the most beautiful constellations in our sky.

I've just done a bit of Googling and it turns out that Cygnus can be seen from Australia and other southern hemisphere countries for a few months of the year — about July to October, mid-late winter to early-mid spring — low on the horizon in the north-east. That means you can definitely see both crosses in the sky at that time, because the Southern Cross is ALWAYS visible from the southern hemisphere, year-round — it's our equivalent of Polaris, almost.

If you can get right out into the Australian outback, that's the best place for stargazing — virtually no light pollution and the land is so flat and largely treeless that there's nothing blocking the view. I've never been there, but my dad has and he says you can literally see the stars from horizon to horizon. That must be something!!

Posted by: @waggawerewolf27

I don't really understand all the technical details, including what is meant by a degree in astronomy as opposed to geography or temperature. 

Degrees in astronomy can be rather confusing. In terms of apparent distances on the sky, they are analogous to geographical ones: the sky is a sphere, 360 degrees in circumference. From the horizon to the zenith is 90 degrees. So we say, for example, that the Big Dipper pointer stars are about 5 degrees apart. The easiest way I've found to estimate these is finding standard distances between stars, such as the Big Dipper, Orion (20 degrees from Rigel to Betelgeuse) etc. In the Southern Hemisphere, the Centaurus pointers might be a standard distance, or their distance to Crux might be, etc.

The confusing part might be their use in the celestial coordinate system, which is comparable to the one on earth but with different names and conventions. Declination matches terrestrial latitude, but instead of using north or south, astronomers use plus or minus (north or south of the celestial equator). Right ascension corresponds to longitude and might be the most confusing until you get used to it. Instead of east or west, it's counted in hours (15-degree increments), counting east from the March equinox point in Pisces (which is 0 h RA), up to 24 h RA. Confusing? Sorry about the technical ramble.

Posted by: @waggawerewolf27

I'll see if I can find it. I don't really think I know what Capricornus looks like, but it is about time I learned, as a January old woman.

I suspect your light pollution will make it very difficult, if not impossible, to see that very dim constellation. I cannot see it at all with the light pollution here. Fortunately, Saturn stands out as the only moderately bright thing in that area west (or southwest) of Jupiter.

Posted by: @courtenay

If you can get right out into the Australian outback, that's the best place for stargazing — virtually no light pollution and the land is so flat and largely treeless that there's nothing blocking the view.

That is definitely on my bucket list! I've observed a sky full of stars from some remote parts of the western US, but to see an even darker sky full of unfamiliar southern stars and the Magellanic Clouds? Sign me up!

@courtenay 

Thanks so much for the information.   I would think Cygnus would be rather low in the northern sky when viewed from Australia, New Zealand, or South America. But it definitely would be worth looking for if you want to see it. My guess is that the Southern Cross is closer to the south celestial pole (which is above Antarctica in the southern skies) than Cygnus is to the northern pole in our sky.  And I guess that is the reason why we cannot see the Southern Cross from here. 🙂

Posted by: @narnian78

My guess is that the Southern Cross is closer to the south celestial pole (which is above Antarctica in the southern skies) than Cygnus is to the northern pole in our sky.  And I guess that is why we cannot see the Southern Cross from here.

Yep — which in turn is the same reason why we can't see Polaris from Australia. (To be fair, I haven't yet seen it from here in England either, or at least haven't recognised it. As I was saying to Stargazer, I just haven't been out on any nights that are dark enough and clear enough for me to see enough stars to be able to tell one from another. I must try to do that some day.)

Posted by: @courtenay

I take it there's somewhere you can look up which stars are visible from which locations — or have you been stargazing in Peru yourself?  

I wish! 🙂

I meant to respond to this earlier. There are a number of websites or apps that allow you to find this kind of info (the educators at my local natural history museum use Stellarium), but I just use heavens-above.com. This useful site lets you get satellite viewing predictions, time of sunrise/set, moonrise and moonset, and lots more. It has an interactive sky chart that lets you explore what the sky will look like at different times and dates.

Setting the default observing site to a location like Sydney or Lima lets you look at the sky from that location. It's the kind of thing I like to play around with, to see how the sky behaves from different locations.

@Stargazer: I suspect your light pollution will make it very difficult, if not impossible, to see that very dim constellation. I cannot see it at all with the light pollution here. Fortunately, Saturn stands out as the only moderately bright thing in that area west (or southwest) of Jupiter

I did manage to get a look at an object that was suspiciously like Saturn about the same distance westward from Jupiter as the distance between the two Pointers, & somewhat higher in the sky. The real way to distinguish either planet, or Mars or Venus is that planets don't flicker or twinkle, unlike stars. Being a bit wall-eyed, my own vision might flicker when trying to focus on such objects. 

About the light pollution, we were discussing the actual size of the cities holding the Olympic games, whether the just finished Tokyo games, which has 21 million people, or Paris, which hubby, myself & Rachel have visited, Los Angeles, in 2028, & now Brisbane, in 2032, which will probably recycle the sporting facilities in the adjacent Gold Coast, built for the 2018 Gold Coast Commonwealth Games. Sydney sprawls over the Cumberland Plain, & up into the Blue Mountains, in an almost circular arc, back northwards across the Hawkesbury to Broken Bay in the North, & then southwards across the Nepean, South East to Port Hacking at Cronulla.

Idly, I wondered why famous New York, where everything happens, & celebrated in song and dance, has never thought to hold the Olympic Games, itself. I hadn't realised how big Sydney, with over 5 million inhabitants, has become in my lifetime, compared even to Los Angeles, or even some of the other more famous towns in USA, such as Chicago with which Sydney is often compared. Wikipedia, which I consulted, stated that according to the 2010 United States Census^[118] , Los Angeles had a population of 3,792,621, & I was startled to think it may be no bigger than Melbourne, which with more than 4 million people, is only slightly smaller than Sydney. The Australian Bureau of Statistics estimates that the population of Greater Brisbane is 2,560,720 as of June 2020, about the same size as Auckland, I think. 

Looking at views of our own planet from the International Space Station, it is all too easy to see where most lights are. 

I love stargazing but having grown up in the city it was hard to see anything outside of the Big Dipper, Cassiopeia and Orion due to light pollution.  Our annual camping trip was the only chance I got.  I now live in the country so when we first moved out here I thought I would go every night.  Now I'm too scared of bears and coyotes, ha ha.  I do have a free star-gazing app that I use with my kids.  I let my son stay up once to stargaze (up north here you have to stay up until nearly midnight to see the good stuff) and he became the bear I feared the next day.   We have a lamppost at the end of our driveway so the best place for viewing is our backyard though we have too many trees to see the northern skyline.  I don't get to see the northern lights unless we are out at night near an open field.  I have seen them out at friends' farms.  They are usually a blend of green and white.  We're still a bit too south to get the crazy colours.

I don't have a telescope or binoculars so it's all naked-eye viewing for me.  I used to ogle the telescopes in the SEARS catalog when I was kid though.  Yeesh.  haha  Last summer, I went out into the mosquitos every night for two weeks to try to see that one comet that went by.  They said on the news you could see it with the naked eye but I later learned that binoculars fell under "Naked eye" so I got all itchy for nothing.

Does anyone here ever use the Heavens Above website? It can be found here . The website has an interactive star chart which you can set for your current time, date and location.  You can find the stars and planets in their constellations on any time or date from any location in the world. Planispheres do not usually show planets, but on the chart they are plotted for you.  There is also information on where to find the International Space Station.  This is a very useful website for amateur astronomers.