SC has the theme of following Aslan throughout the book. Jill has to learn the signs, but when she gets distracted, she forgets and it gets them in trouble! just like us! we have the Bible to show us the way, but if we foret what it says or don't follow it, then we get in trouble.

I'm sorry for not contributing to this discussion much lately. Part of the reason is that I haven't read the book in many, many years.

@Liberty: I like the comparison you made between Aslan's signs and the Bible. We have to remember and do them. Otherwise, we'll get lost.

@Pattertwig: I disagree about us not having "solid proof" for Christianity. We have creation, the Bible, the recorded death and resurrection of Christ, and changed lives as a result of believing the first three [i.e. God's self-revelation and sacrifice]. I like what you said about fear. It's not fear vs faith. It's having the right kind of fear that counts, for it will produce courage and obedience.

I found an article today in which the author interviews [Feb 23] Billy Graham on his life and ministry. Here's an excerpt.

Is there one temptation you've struggled with throughout your lifetime -- one you find yourself confessing to God over and over?

Ruth and our children used to kid me about being a pessimist, and worrying too much about some situation we might be facing. Sometimes they even called me "Puddleglum", after one of C. S. Lewis' imaginary characters in The Chronicles of Narnia who tended to be a pessimist. But their comments had a serious side to them, because they were reminding me that I wasn't trusting God the way I should. Once we understand that God loves us, we can commit the future into His hands and quit worrying about it all the time.

What are your thoughts on the Graham family's view of Puddleglum's pessimism, i.e. its effect on how a person lives his/her life and his/her trust in God?

Hm.........I don't think Puddleglum is pessimistic because he doesn't trust Aslan. On the contrary, there is more than one instance where he shows complete faith in Him.

When they discover the words "UNDER ME":
No doubt, if we'd had our minds on our job when we were at the Ruinous City, we'd have been shown how--found a little door, or a cave, or a tunnel, met someone to help us. Might have been (you never know) Aslan himself. We'd have got down under those paving-stones somehow or other. Aslan's instructions always work: there are no exceptions. The House of Harfang

When Rilian says the words were not meant for them:
"Don't you mind him," said Puddleglum, "There are no accidents. Our guide is Aslan; and he was there when the giant King caused the letters to be cut, and he knew already all things that would come of them; including this. Travels Without the Sun

And of course the speech he gives after breaking the witch's spell, but I don't think I need to quote it.

I think Puddleglum is pessimistic because that's how he deals with the world. If you expect the best, you'll probably be disappointed. If you expect the worst, you'll be pleasantly surprised. Puddleglum could and did take this philosophy a little too far, but when Puddleglum refuses to tell what happened to him at the end and instead asks for news of war and the king's death etc, the Narnians say "Isn't that just like a Marshwiggle?" so he's not the only one.

I found an article today in which the author interviews [Feb 23] Billy Graham on his life and ministry. Here's an excerpt.

..... But their comments had a serious side to them, because they were reminding me that I wasn't trusting God the way I should. Once we understand that God loves us, we can commit the future into His hands and quit worrying about it all the time.

I understand what he's getting at. We shouldn't worry because it's all in God's hands. But I don't think that describes Puddleglum. He doesn't worry, he just makes a point of saying what could go wrong so everyone concerned can be prepared for it.

No, I don't necessarily think Puddleglum is a Glum Puddle. After all, he says at the beginning, that the other marshwiggles said he was too fond of 'bobbance and bounce and high spirits', and that he should remember that 'life isn't all fricasseed frogs and eel pie'. If Puddleglum seems like a pessimist then I'd have been loath to have met the other marshwiggles. Perhaps it is all a matter of perspective how you see Puddleglum.

I think that Puddleglum was merely brought up with a healthy respect for Murphy's Law. That is to say, whatever can go wrong, will. Management specialists call this approach to life 'risk management', and if it wasn't for Puddleglum's constant presence, catering skills and guidance, Eustace and Jill would have fared much worse than they did.

I found this quote on a site, entitled Jenny's Books, where she has reviewed much the sort of books I like to read.

when I went and woke up my parents with nightmares, they would tell me that Aslan would blow my bad dreams away. You know, like he blew away Eustace and Jill in The Silver Chair, most terrifying Narnia book ever; and that’s what I would imagine when I was falling back asleep.

Now this is a way to explain the Silver Chair I'd never thought of before. Would you consider that Silver Chair was really the most terrifying of all the Narnia books? And exactly what about it makes the commentator I quoted say it is such a terrifying book? Is it the fears that Jill and Eustace have to overcome? The sadness of Caspian at the loss of his son and Queen? Drinian's deep feelings of shame?

Was it the creepy Harfang? In which the honoured guests are actually prisoners, a prelude to their being done like a dinner? Or was it that dark world of LOTGK? Where the three travellers are asked to free what looks like a madman? Or was it LOTGK, herself, mesmerising and drugging the Narnian four into denying Aslan or Narnia existed?

What do you think and why?

Now this is a way to explain the Silver Chair I'd never thought of before. Would you consider that Silver Chair was really the most terrifying of all the Narnia books? And exactly what about it makes the commentator I quoted say it is such a terrifying book? Is it the fears that Jill and Eustace have to overcome? The sadness of Caspian at the loss of his son and Queen? Drinian's deep feelings of shame?

Was it the creepy Harfang? In which the honoured guests are actually prisoners, a prelude to their being done like a dinner? Or was it that dark world of LOTGK? Where the three travellers are asked to free what looks like a madman? Or was it LOTGK, herself, mesmerising and drugging the Narnian four into denying Aslan or Narnia existed?

What do you think and why?

I think that The Last Battle is the scariest. Something about the overwhelming Calormenes fighting the few remaining Narnians in Narnia's last hours makes it very eerie and very sad. But I would say The Silver Chair could be rated as the second most terrifying/darkest. I always found the Emerald Witch to be scarier than the White Witch because of her two forms, and the fate of Ramandu's Daughter.

Most importantly, I think, is that the LOTGK tried to mesmerize and drug the Narnian four into denying Aslan and Narnia. That would almost certainly be known as one of the darkest scenes in the Chronicles (Aslan's death and Narnia's end excluded). I can certainly think of many other scary scenes in the other books, but none where anyone is tempted to deny Aslan. (No, wait! There's Jewel in LB...) To deny Aslan would be to deny everything they know and hold true.

They tried to use logic and explain the world to her (the lamp like the sun, Aslan like a cat), but she always had an answer and a way to shoot down their story. We can try to convince people that Christianity is true and present reasons why it is, but in the end we have no solid proof.

I agree with you. I think that's a good example from the book and the best way to parallel it. Sometimes when I think about what I believe, I can come up with questions or 'come-backs' that I have no way of answering. How I see it then, what I believe can't be proven to be true with logic. All I can do is live my life and people can then see how it affects me. Puddleglum and the kids couldn't prove Narnia and Aslan exhisted, but when Puddleglum acted courageously by ruining the witches spell and calling to Aslan, that carried a lot more weight as proof than any logical statement.

I don't think this really is Christian, though. Puddleglum is essentially saying that even if there is no God he'd rather believe the comforting lie than the harsh truth. You'd be hard pressed to find a less Christian message in the Chroncles.

I think it is a realistic picture of faith down to its bare bones. When you are in a situation where your faith is sorely tried, when you are surrounded by doubts and people who don't believe what you usually do, you get to the point where all you have left is the sort of attitude that Puddleglum expressed.
Puddleglum is great in these tight places - the 'Aslan told us what to do - but he didn't say what would happen when we did it' kind of blind loyalty. And there is a great lesson in that you can find and learn about faith and right choices in the oddest of people.

Would you consider that Silver Chair was really the most terrifying of all the Narnia books? And exactly what about it makes the commentator I quoted say it is such a terrifying book?

No, I don't think I would. I always thought LB was more terrifying than all of the rest of the books, at least the first half. Although it does contain some terrifying moments. The book opens with Jill crying behind the gym. Right away we know something is wrong. The bullying that goes on in the school I wouldn't describe as terrifying, but certainly disturbing; Eustace falling off the cliff is scary; etc. etc. The overall tone of the book is somewhat on the darker side, for Narnia anyway. I don't think I would describe it as a dark book. The darkest moment is when LotGK is trying to enchant Rilian, Eustace, Jill, and Puddleglum. The way she so condescendingly replies each time they try to break out of the spell is creepy. I can see how someone would think SC is terrifying, but I find LB more terrifying because of the way the Calormenes take over almost without Tirian even realizing what is happening. Rishda is creepy in the way he manipulates Shift, and Tash is simply frightening.

That take on which book is scariest is fair enough. But then there is something about 'Silver Chair' which is compelling.

But what we don't like to think about as often is what exactly a hero is saving us from.

I saw this quote from another thread in this forum and wondered just how applicable it might be to 'Silver Chair'. On the whole, I think it is, more so than any of the other books. I know that in LWW Edmund betrayed his siblings out of a longing to be the only person in the family to be the main one. I know that in PC it was Peter who failed to ask Aslan for direction. And I know that in VDT it was Eustace who had to be undragoned.

But 'Silver Chair' is the book in which LOTGK might well be the main enemy, but it is Eustace and Jill who are very often their own worst enemies.

Take the bullying at the beginning. Eustace had gone along with it until he returned from his trip to Aslan's World. Jill doesn't know any alternative to the bullying at that stage. Then there is the cliff. Eustace and Jill have different phobias, likes and dislikes. And so they get off to a bad start for their quest, because of Jill's 'showing off'.

This story is really Puddleglum's. Without him, Eustace and Jill would have been stumped, lost, and even eaten long beforehand. Until they all reach the palace of LOTGK, none of the travellers are actually forced to do anything.other than accompany the Bism gnomes. And even then it is all persuasion, drugs, incense and hypnotism which the LOTGK uses to gull Eustace, Jill and Rilian to agree with herself.

One of the most scary parts of 'Silver Chair' is the trio's experiences being captive in Harfang. But then nobody told them to go to Harfang, where they very nearly form part of the menu for the Autumn feast. They never saw the armoured knight as a person, and the advice LOTGK gave the travellers was merely advice, nothing more. I put it to you, oh learned fellow NarniaWebbers, that it was only Eustace and Jill's own weaknesses that caused them to go to Harfang, being hungry, cold and tired, normal conditions for much of humanity. There was no fantastic enchantment from the Emerald Witch to coerce them in any way.

So are we being urged to be wary of ourselves and our own desires, in the Silver Chair?

A very good point. I love those lines of Puddleglum. And it's one reason The Silver Chair (and VotDT as well) is my favourite book of the Chronicles. It's the learning to follow Aslan (for us, Christ) no matter what anyone else tells you, no matter what anyone else says, thinks, or does. No matter what the culture tells you. Jill, Eustace, and Puddleglum had the signs to follow; we have God's Word. We *can* know, and we must follow even if to the World what we believe is just a child's 'playworld' (acording to the Witch in SC)

Puddleglum *may* have been a wetblanket, but his heart was in the right place. He was loyal and unfailing to Aslan! So should we be as well.

But isn't faith simple? We are to believe like a little child. Puddleglum here is showing the simplicity of his faith. He believes in Aslan, so he's going to follow him. And no witch by any means is going to take him off that path.

There's nothing simple about faith. To have great faith you have to go through a lot of hardships and trials, which test your faith. It's very easy, simple even, to say you have faith in God but never have to put it to a real test. Look at Paul. There was nothing simple about his faith. He learned to trust in God by the things he experienced. He even said that he 'learned' to be content in all circumstances. Same with Job. I think Puddleglum declaration is more akin to Job's when he said: 'Though he slay me, yet will I hope in him.' Puddleglum has just been through a trial, he's experienced doubts along the way, but he's learned something, and his determination to follow Aslan proves it. His faith may seem simple, but it's not. It's been tested and proven to be gold.

"If there isn't any Aslan". Isn't Aslan compared to Christ? It explains all. Sometimes people doesn't believe in God, but... We believe in God even if there isn't any God. So it's the deep of SC. Puddleglum bravely shows all how to be the true Christian. That's all. There is also one thing... but you must find it yourselves.

SC has the theme of following Aslan throughout the book. Jill has to learn the signs, but when she gets distracted, she forgets and it gets them in trouble! just like us! we have the Bible to show us the way, but if we foret what it says or don't follow it, then we get in trouble.

you are so right. the sighs represent the bible when we forget the bible we are lost!

Going back to the famous quote "I'm going to live as like a Narnian as I can even if there isn't any Narnia!", which I believe is one of the most famous quotes in the whole Narnia series among fans, I can totally relate that to my Christian walk. It reminds me of another C.S. Lewis quote, "Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important." It makes me think of how important it is to have a strong faith even if others say it does not matter. I'm going to live as like a Christian as I can even if there isn't any Christ!"

Puddleglum's statement is unacceptable as a declaration of faith; you cant have faith in something you KNOW to be untrue (which is why reason is such a stumbling block to those without adequate wisdom to question the limits of their "knowledge") .

But as the statement of someone teetering between despair and delirium, as a last act of defiance - a declaration of irrational faith in the face of defeat, that is worthy IN THAT CONTEXT.

Ok... the scene I find most memorable...

"Shall I be deprived of my son AND my most trusted friend in one day?"

The one thing that sticks in my mind is when Lewis telling about the Disappearance of Rillian, and Drinian comes to confess what he knows about the LOTGK to King Caspian. Caspian, in a mad rage, flies at Drinian with battle axe to hew him head to foot -

and Drinian just stands there.

And then at the last instant realizing what he is about to do, Caspian halts and drops the weapon and embraces him. And they both burst into tears.

THAT is forgivness, and redemption and mortification, and sorrow and loss all at once! Intensified ninefold because unblinded by rage nothing hides the abyss of tears and pain of shared loss.

Ah, "tales filled with the sadness of men". I guess when you're 12 years old the scene sort of passes by. But after you've been through the meat grinder... Eh? Bah! I'm over that.