@aslanthelion I'd argue we're supposed to feel bad for Aslan and Eustace in that scene as well as bad for Caspian. By your own admission, it describes Aslan being wounded in some detail.

Posted by: @col-klink

@aslanthelion I'd argue we're supposed to feel bad for Aslan and Eustace in that scene as well as bad for Caspian. By your own admission, it describes Aslan being wounded in some detail.

He’s the only one who is, however. So I don’t really feel as sorry for Eustace or Caspian. Sure, I wouldn’t want to injure Aslan either, but Eustace has actually been hurt far worse by Aslan (in the “undragoning” scene) so of all people I would think it wouldn’t be as hard for him to do it.

We actually have a picture of a lion wearing a crown of thorns and nail hole in his paw, indicating that it's Jesus.

It even has Revelation 5:5 in the inscription, where it refers to Jesus as "the Lion as the Tribe of Judah" (that must explain why Aslan is supposed to be Jesus in our world).

So if there's any religious elements, perhaps the thorn in SC is supposed to remind us as a cross between the crown of thorns and the nails.

@aslanthelion I was thinking more of Eustace's emotional pain over Caspian's death, but I'd argue it's implied that piercing Aslan with the thorn is hard for Eustace too. 

"Must I?" said Eustace.
"Yes," said Aslan.
Then Eustace set his teeth and drove the thorn into the Lion's pad.

You can say, of course, that doesn't make sense but that's the implication, it seems to me.

Posted by: @col-klink

@aslanthelion I was thinking more of Eustace's emotional pain over Caspian's death, but I'd argue it's implied that piercing Aslan with the thorn is hard for Eustace too. 

"Must I?" said Eustace.
"Yes," said Aslan.
Then Eustace set his teeth and drove the thorn into the Lion's pad.

You can say, of course, that doesn't make sense but that's the implication, it seems to me.

I still feel pretty much mainly feel bad, the worst anyway, for Aslan specifically. 😢

Is it strange that I do? Please tell

me I’m not the only one who feels this way.

Posted by: @jasmine_tarkheena

Even the Lion wept: great Lion-tears, each tear more precious than the Earth would be if it was a single solid diamond.

What exactly does Lewis mean by that, by the way? Does anyone have any idea? 

Posted by: @col-klink

@aslanthelion I'd argue we're supposed to feel bad for Aslan and Eustace in that scene as well as bad for Caspian. By your own admission, it describes Aslan being wounded in some detail.

I’m not sure you’re entirely understanding how I’m feeling about it, though. You’re saying I should just feel bad for the characters in general. I was talking specifically about how I felt for Aslan.

Posted by: @aslanthelion

I still feel pretty much mainly feel bad, the worst anyway, for Aslan specifically. 😢

Is it strange that I do? Please tell

me I’m not the only one who feels this way.

Well, I don't know about "strange"... everyone has their own emotional reactions to particular things, and what hardly affects one person may move another deeply, just because we're all unique and are each coming from a different background! There's really no absolute right or wrong about it, and in the end, only you yourself can say why this particular scene "bothers" you (as you put it in the opening post).

Do you feel anything like the same way about Aslan's death in LWW? That's a much more dramatic and significant event than this one near the ending of SC — certainly more important to the overall plot of the story — and there, Aslan suffers far worse than having a friend drive a thorn into his paw at his own request. In LWW, he chooses to give himself up unresistingly to his enemies, and is bound with ropes and a muzzle until he's "a mass of cords", has his mane shaved off, is hit and kicked and spat on and ridiculed, and finally stabbed to death. It's all described in pretty heavy detail for a children's book, except, mercifully, for "the actual moment of the killing", which Susan and Lucy can't bear to watch and so we don't see it either. Then afterwards, we have half a chapter of the two girls grieving for him in the cold and darkness, with an intensity that Lewis implies his young readers will only understand "if you've been up all night and cried till you have no more tears left in you." (It's very likely he's remembering his own grief, as a 9-year-old boy, when his mother died.)

I didn't have any knowledge of Christianity or anything else religious the first time I encountered this scene, when I was little and my mum read that book to me at bedtime; I only knew that Aslan was somehow THE most amazing and marvellous character I'd ever met in a story, and if we hadn't kept on reading to where he comes back to life, I don't think I would have been able to sleep that night!!

But as I was saying, only you know what affects you and why, and the same goes for each one of us. So while your responses to these scenes may be different from other people's, there's nothing wrong about that! I'd certainly be interested to hear why you feel so strongly about Aslan, in particular, getting hurt — even when it's something he asked for and it clearly doesn't have a lasting harmful effect on him — but then, it's not always easy to explain one's own feelings even to oneself.

Posted by: @aslanthelion

Posted by: @jasmine_tarkheena

Even the Lion wept: great Lion-tears, each tear more precious than the Earth would be if it was a single solid diamond.

What exactly does Lewis mean by that, by the way? Does anyone have any idea? 

I think what CS Lewis meant by "Even the Lion wept" that even Aslan had feelings. I'm sure that all Narnia, rich and poor, humans and talking beasts, were mourning for the death of Caspian. It may indicated that Aslan wanted to be sad along with Narnia that were mourning the death of their king. This could also be in reference to the shortest verse of the Bible, "Jesus wept." Jesus mourned for the death of Lazarus with Mary and Martha, perhaps he wanted to be sad with them.

So I think CS Lewis was getting at when Aslan wept, it was showing that even He had feelings. When Jesus was on Earth, He had feelings, too.

Posted by: @jasmine_tarkheena

Posted by: @aslanthelion

Posted by: @jasmine_tarkheena

Even the Lion wept: great Lion-tears, each tear more precious than the Earth would be if it was a single solid diamond.

What exactly does Lewis mean by that, by the way? Does anyone have any idea? 

I think what CS Lewis meant by "Even the Lion wept" that even Aslan had feelings. I'm sure that all Narnia, rich and poor, humans and talking beasts, were mourning for the death of Caspian. It may indicated that Aslan wanted to be sad along with Narnia that were mourning the death of their king. This could also be in reference to the shortest verse of the Bible, "Jesus wept." Jesus mourned for the death of Lazarus with Mary and Martha, perhaps he wanted to be sad with them.

So I think CS Lewis was getting at when Aslan wept, it was showing that even He had feelings. When Jesus was on Earth, He had feelings, too.

 

I was actually asking what he meant about the tears, but to be fair I was a bit confused by that too. Given, this isn’t the first time Aslan cries (that’s in TMN), and in that instance he is reflecting what the other person (in that case Diggory) felt. I think in both cases, it’s not so much Aslan himself being personally upset but rather him deciding to show empathy for the other characters in a way that they find relatable.

Posted by: @aslanthelion

I’m not sure you’re entirely understanding how I’m feeling about it, though. You’re saying I should just feel bad for the characters in general. I was talking specifically about how I felt for Aslan.

I'm saying you seem to think C. S. Lewis failed in what he was attempting whereas the way I see it, he didn't fail since he wanted you to feel bad for Aslan and you do. Though I would say he failed (with you, not with me) in that you don't feel sorry for Jill, Caspian or Eustace. I have to say I agree with Courtenay in that I'm not sure why Aslan being poked with a thorn produces such a visceral reaction from you. I mean, it's certainly painful but it's not the worst injury imaginable. 

Posted by: @courtenay Do you feel anything like the same way about Aslan's death in LWW? That's a much more dramatic and significant event than this one near the ending of SC — certainly more important to the overall plot of the story — and there, Aslan suffers far worse than having a friend drive a thorn into his paw at his own request.

Posted by: @col-klink

Posted by: @aslanthelion

I’m not sure you’re entirely understanding how I’m feeling about it, though. You’re saying I should just feel bad for the characters in general. I was talking specifically about how I felt for Aslan.

I'm saying you seem to think C. S. Lewis failed in what he was attempting whereas the way I see it, he didn't fail since he wanted you to feel bad for Aslan and you do. Though I would say he failed (with you, not with me) in that you don't feel sorry for Jill, Caspian or Eustace. I have to say I agree with Courtenay in that I'm not sure why Aslan being poked with a thorn produces such a visceral reaction from you. I mean, it's certainly painful but it's not the worst injury imaginable. 

Maybe not, but consider this part.

“Son of Adam,” said Aslan, “go into that thicket and pluck the thorn that you will find there, and bring it to me.”
   Eustace obeyed. The thorn was a foot long and sharp as a rapier.

I don’t know about you, but that certainly sounds to me like something meant to produce a visceral reaction.

@aslanthelion Fair enough. I agree that it's a disturbing description. I just tend to forget about it once Caspian is restored to life and youth. Maybe I'm just more easily manipulated than you are. For me, the scene would be less interesting and emotionally engaging if Caspian were just OK without that blood. 

Posted by: @col-klink

@aslanthelion Fair enough. I agree that it's a disturbing description. I just tend to forget about it once Caspian is restored to life and youth. Maybe I'm just more easily manipulated than you are. For me, the scene would be less interesting and emotionally engaging if Caspian were just OK without that blood. 

I totally get that. I just wish it didn’t come at the price of Aslan getting hurt, since it’s not something I can just forget.