@jasminetarkheena 

Russia is one of the European countries I referred to. 

Walden wanted to avoid a Hollywood 'Santa Claus', which was logical since the character was Father Christmas (please see my previous post).

The description in the book says he wore a red robe, which is what he wore in Walden/Adamson. 

Adamson said something about the warrior side of the character, in an interview or a commentary. That would link with the Norse background. I failed to mention earlier that many British people have Norse/Viking in their ancestry.

I'm just going to say I don't have a problem with the Narnians observing the earthly holiday of Christmas. There's nothing wrong with being bothered by it if you are. I'm just...not. Maybe because it's established towards the beginning of the first book. If, after six books of the Narnians only celebrating their own cultural holidays, Christmas was dropped in the seventh book, I'd be jarred. 

Forgive me if this is a controversial thing to bring up, but many people celebrate Christmas as a secular festival, and I don't see why the Narnians couldn't too. The trappings of the holiday we see in LWW, gifts, plum pudding, etc, are all pretty neutral. If we saw the Narnians with Nativity sets, now that would raise questions, but we don't. And what do they think Christ's Mass means exactly? Well, hard as it is for nerds like ourselves, to understand, not everyone cares about word origins. Presumably, they picked it up from King Frank and Queen Helen. (None of this is to say that C. S. Lewis wasn't thinking of the Christian significance of Christmas when writing the book. Far from it! According to a letter he wrote, he wanted Aslan and Christmas to enter Narnia at the same time since it's the holiday that commemorates the Incarnation.) 

It is true that this seems to be part of Lewis's vision that changed over time. None of the later books features the Narnians (or Archenlanders or Calormenes or Lone Islanders) celebrating holidays from this world. Since LWW came first, and the books were written in a fairly tight space of time by one person, I'm inclined to see its mythology as less canonical than the later installments. But Christmas is such a big part of the book that you can't really ignore it. So I guess this should bug me...but it just doesn't.  

@col-klink If you look at the history of Christmas, it actually was associated with a pagan holiday. The Romans celebrated winter solstice to honor the god Sol. When Christianity first spread, it was decided that December 25th would be the day that Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus. We actually don't really know what day He was born on. The Norse honored the god Thor with an oak tree. Legend says that St. Boniface cut down the oak tree, and pointed to a small fir tree. The Norse even had a yule celebration where they burned logs. Lights on Christmas trees reminded them of winter solstice and yule celebration. As Christianity progress, it became more about the birth Jesus.

The Word "Christmas" came from when the Roman Catholic church held a mass (like communion to remember the last supper); it was called "Christ's Mass". Those two words were blended together, and it became "Christmas".

Though lately, they have wanted to be politically correct by saying "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas". It's like they want to take Christ out of Christmas.

We can all agree on that Christmas is about hope and joy. The eternal winter in Narnia was a picture of hopelessness. Then Father Christmas arrives, meaning that spring was just about come. It was hope. You cannot have spring without being Christmas first.

@jasminetarkheena 

Depends where you live, Jasmine. 

In the northern hemisphere, Christmas is at the midwinter point in terms of length of daylight. After the Yule celebrations the days get slowly longer. 

However Spring is still months off. In England it's not really there until April.

Posted by: @jasminetarkheena

The Word "Christmas" came from when the Roman Catholic church held a mass (like communion to remember the last supper); it was called "Christ's Mass". Those two words were blended together, and it became "Christmas".

I'm sorry if my sentence wasn't clear. I know the origin of the word, Christmas, and I assume most people reading this thread do too. I was saying we can assume the Narnians don't, though this may seem unrealistic.

P.S.

Posted by: @jasminetarkheena

f you look at the history of Christmas, it actually was associated with a pagan holiday.

I've actually come across an article that disagrees somewhat. (If you read the link, please don't feel that the angry tone means that I am angry about anything! I just thought the content might be worth sharing.)

No, Christmas Isn't Secretly Pagan: A Very Merry D-List Saints Christmas Special (For the Whole Family) - Christ and Pop Culture

@col-klink I actually get what you're saying.

Maybe CS Lewis could have been more clear on how the Narnians knew the word Christmas. We could assume that Father Christmas has been able to travel to Archenland and Calormen during the reign of the White Witch, since they didn't suffer the eternal winter. It makes you wonder what Christmas traditions they have in Archenland and Calormen (I don't know if Calormenes even celebrate Christmas).

Lewis also noticed the whole secularisation of Christmas.
He said, in one of his books, that there are three Christmases:

1. The birth of Jesus Christ being celebrated

2. Feasting and celebrating midwinter.

3. [I think this was it, someone correct me if I'm wrong?] Secular Christmas with buying presents and Santa Claus etc (much added to in popular and Hollywood material since his time). EDIT:  I remembered; it was the commercial Christmas, stores doing their biggest selling time of the year.

Posted by: @coracle

Father Christmas is a European traditional figure, who came from earlier personifications of the Yuletide (Midwinter) festivities. The Romans observed Saturnalia, a feast day honouring the god Saturn. The Norse god Odin seems to have been very like our Father Christmas, and travelled through the world bringing gifts or punishment. He wore a blue-hooded cloak and had a long white beard.

 

  

I was thinking about Saturnalia as I was reading this thread earlier.   There were a lot of pagan traditions that the church absorbed to get people to feel comfortable with it. 

This is what I assumed after reading the Magician's Nephew:

Posted by: @col-klink

 

 Presumably, they picked it up from King Frank and Queen Helen.

I wonder if The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe would have been as popular without Father Christmas.  The part where he appears is very short ( I think it’s only one chapter), but it is enough to add a Christmas feeling to the story. In fact I think the story would be less effective without it. Father Christmas is someone which Aslan can use for good in defeating the White Witch. The Christmas feeling is so important to the story since winter with the holiday is the way it was meant to be celebrated. 🙂

@narnian78 It's hard to say. Yet what story would it be if the famous line was "Always winter and never Christmas" and took out Father Christmas?

Posted by: @col-klink

I've actually come across an article that disagrees somewhat. (If you read the link, please don't feel that the angry tone means that I am angry about anything! I just thought the content might be worth sharing.)

No, Christmas Isn't Secretly Pagan: A Very Merry D-List Saints Christmas Special (For the Whole Family) - Christ and Pop Culture

That's excellent, Col. Klink — I was going to go looking for similar kinds of articles and you've saved me the hassle!

I used to post on a general Christian discussion forum a few years ago and every single Christmas and Easter, there were multiple run-ins with participants who were insisting that both Christmas and Easter are actually pagan festivals that were co-opted by the Christians. (And, most of these posters were concluding, it's therefore actually wrong for Christians to celebrate these festivals, and those who are doing so are going against what God wants.)

That whole argument is mostly — almost entirely — a furphy. Some symbolic elements that were also associated with pagan celebrations in various ways — like light, candles, evergreen trees and branches and so on — have of course become incorporated into the festivities of Christmas, because, well, why not? But there's no serious evidence that either Christmas or Easter actually began as pagan festivals with the names changed. There are a lot of readily-jumped-to conclusions by atheists, neo-pagans and occasional Christian fundamentalists, but the historical record, when looked into closely, doesn't bear that out.

Posted by: @jasminetarkheena

Yet what story would it be if the famous line was "Always winter and never Christmas" and took out Father Christmas?

Totally agree!  It makes me wonder, too, how Netflix will do Father Christmas when they adapt LWW. Will they make him recognisably Father Christmas, a more pagan-like figure, or perhaps even leave him out entirely? The 1978 animated version of LWW does that; Peter, Susan and Lucy are simply given their gifts by Aslan when they meet him. It's a pity to leave that scene out, though. It's a high point in the story and I've always enjoyed it — including the fact that Father Christmas provides them all with "a large tray containing five cups and saucers, a bowl of lump sugar, a jug of cream, and a great big teapot all sizzling and piping hot" as he leaves. So incredibly British of him!!  

@courtenay I think the 1977 animated adaptation also cut out Mrs. Macready and giant Rumblebuffin, who are both key characters in the story. They're not very big roles, but they are important. Netflix could make him look like the Ghost of Christmas Present from A Christmas Carol or they could do the Norse warrior again, like Walden did.

As I have mentioned before, we could all agree on that Christmas is all about hope and joy. The eternal winter is a picture of in state of hopelessness. That's how Narnians were feeling during the eternal winter. When the White Witch took out Christmas, she took away the joy and celebration. When Father Christmas arrived, it was as sign that spring was coming and Aslan was near. It meant hope and joy had arrived. I think as @gp would say, despair and hope is seen throughout the Chronicles.

I have a suspicion that the idea that Father Christmas or Santa Claus is antithetical to the Christian celebration of Christmas is a modern American that wouldn't have occurred to C. S. Lewis.

Ugh! That sounds so snobby of me. I don't mean to imply that C. S. Lewis was right and modern American Christians are wrong. It could very well be the other way around. But we probably shouldn't assume he would have thought the same way. 

I'm also sorry if AtlantisBox is Irish or something and he's offended by my implying he's an American.  

Why is Christmas even a thing in Narnia? 

Most likely because King Frank and Queen Helen brought it with them from England. Could that cause Father Christmas to manifest himself in Narnia? 

Well, it is a fantasy so technically there are no rules  

In the Narnian context, I still think it's quite likely that he's a star. 

@glenwit, This video from Into the Wardrobe suggests that there may have been portals that the real Father Christmas used, like the Telmarines, to enter Narnia: