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Book 2, Ch. 4: Justice

wisewoman
(@wisewoman)
Member Moderator Emeritus

1. "The complaint was the answer. To have heard myself making it was to be answered." What does this mean? Would you be satisfied with an answer like this?

2. What do you think of Psyche's punishments? Did either Psyche or Orual receive justice?

3. In this chapter we get the clearest indication of who Ungit is when Fox says, "All, even Psyche, are born in the house of Ungit. And all must get free of her. Or say that Ungit in each must bear Ungit's son and die in childbed—or change." What is Lewis saying? Who is Ungit?

4. What do you make of this book's ending? Is it fitting, or does it leave you with questions still unanswered? How do you think Orual intended to finish her last sentence?

5.

"We said we loved her."
"And we did. She had no more dangerous enemies than us."

In a way, this sums up all of Orual's relationship with Pysche. Always trying to do what she thought was best for her, but always doing the opposite. What are your thoughts on this concept? Have you ever hurt someone when you tried to do what you thought was best for them?

"It is God who gives happiness; for he is the true wealth of men's souls." — Augustine

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Topic starter Posted : August 26, 2010 2:24 am
daughter of the King
(@dot)
Princess Dot Moderator

1. Orual means that she had no right to be making a complaint against the gods. Everything that happened was her own doing. After reading her complaint, she realized what a selfish person she was and that the gods were not the selfish beings she thought they were.

2. I never really thought much about Psyche's punishments. I just excepted them because they were in the original story. I suppose neither Orual or Psyche received justice. The Fox asks what would become of us if the gods were just. If the gods had been just, Orual probably wouldn't have had a chance to see that she was wrong.

3. Ungit is sin. All are born in sin, and we can only escape Ungit by grace through faith alone in Christ Jesus.

4. I find the ending fitting, and it doesn't really leave me with unanswered questions. Orual finally knows her sin and knows who to go to to overcome her sin. I think Orual intended to finish by accepting God's mercy and grace.

5. Love is blind as the saying goes. Love is not only can be blind to other people's faults, but it can also be blind to our own. We think we know what is best for others but sometimes we fall short of what they really need.

ahsokasig
Narniaweb sister to Pattertwig's Pal

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Posted : August 26, 2010 9:34 am
Lady Haleth
(@lady-haleth)
NarniaWeb Junkie

1. I think she means that, once she has finally voiced all her objections, she realizes how false they are. Everything was more her fault than anyone else's. Only by reading her accusation aloud to the gods could she realize how bad it was.
2. I'm not sure what to think of all of Psyche's punishments, either. They had something to do with her giving in to Orual on the mountain, by placing her in situations (like what they saw in the cave), where she must not give in to anyone. But since mercy was given to her in the end, I'd say she did not get justice. Neither did Orual. They got something better.
3. I think Ungit represents our sin nature, our natural self that must die. Hers is the devouring love. Only by believing in the true God can we overcome it.
4. I thought it was a very satisfying ending. She realizes her flaws and her sin, she and Psyche are reunited--I think it was a great ending!
5

daughter of the King wrote
Love is blind as the saying goes. Love is not only can be blind to other people's faults, but it can also be blind to our own. We think we know what is best for others but sometimes we fall short of what they really need.

I think you're right. You said it better than I could. Like Lewis said in The Four Loves, human love is not enough.

The glory of God is man fully alive--St. Iraneus
Salvation is a fire in the midnight of the soul-Switchfoot

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Posted : August 29, 2010 11:23 am
Pattertwigs Pal
(@twigs)
Member Moderator

1. "The complaint was the answer. To have heard myself making it was to be answered." What does this mean? Would you be satisfied with an answer like this?

I suppose she realized just how selfish she was and how much evil and bitterness were in her. Well, reading the book, I would have liked a bit more of an answer from the gods or at least a little more of an explanation form Orual.

2. What do you think of Psyche's punishments? Did either Psyche or Orual receive justice?

On the surface it seems a little harsh but really it isn't. She directly disobeyed the god. Under Christian principles, that would deserve death. She didn't die and became a goddess. Her punishment was manageable with a little help. Orual was, according to human standards, far worse than Psyche. She suffered but she did not get what she deserved. The gods allowed her to make a complaint against them and they helped her see the errors of her ways. Then they forgave her and she became beautiful too.
The book basically says that Orual won't get justice.
Fox: "... whatever you get it will not be justice."
Orual "Are the gods not just?"
Fox: "Oh no, child. What would become of us if they were?"
I don't take this to mean they punish people more than they deserve but that they punish people less than the deserve and reward them more than they deserve. If we all got exactly what we deserved, I don't think any of us would like it.

3. In this chapter we get the clearest indication of who Ungit is when Fox says, "All, even Psyche, are born in the house of Ungit. And all must get free of her. Or say that Ungit in each must bear Ungit's son and die in childbed—or change." What is Lewis saying? Who is Ungit?

I'm still not 100% sure about who Ungit is but Lewis seems to be saying that we all are born in to the ugliness and the devouring and we need to get free of that. The part about bearing Ungit's son just reminded me of 1 Tim 2:15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety. NIV I think he is saying that we are all born in sin and need to be free from it. I wonder if "bear[ing] Ungit's son" has something to do with having Christ in us. :- Pysche was close to the god of the mountain, even as a child but she wasn't fully free of Ungit (that is if sin is related to Ungit). She still chose to use the lamp.

4. What do you make of this book's ending? Is it fitting, or does it leave you with questions still unanswered? How do you think Orual intended to finish her last sentence?

I didn't like it much. :p I mean, I'm glad that Orual learned and changed but I don't like loose ends. I want to know what her last sentence was going to be. I want to know why Psyche was not allowed to look at her lover. :p

5.

"We said we loved her."
"And we did. She had no more dangerous enemies than us."

In a way, this sums up all of Orual's relationship with Psyche. Always trying to do what she thought was best for her, but always doing the opposite. What are your thoughts on this concept? Have you ever hurt someone when you tried to do what you thought was best for them?

The concept makes a lot of sense. People will do things for what love or what they think is love that they would never do otherwise. When Psyche is going to get the box of beauty, it is Orual who poses the most of the threat of turning her from her path. I don't know if I have hurt someone in that way or not. If I haven't, I would imagine I will at some point in my life.


NW sister to Movie Aristotle & daughter of the King

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Posted : September 20, 2010 12:02 pm
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