Dawn Treader isn't failing money-wise in America. After the poor start, it's been putting up decent numbers.

I'm not sure how much effect bootleg copies have had on the box office. I think they were much more of a problem with PC because the release dates around the world were so spread out.

I think you'd have to have a pretty poor conscience in order to illegally download VDT, with all the moral messages it bombards you with.

I think that about every single movie is bootleged nowadays. Domestic Gross is a little disappointment. I'm sure Fox and Walden hoped they'd make more than PC or at least match it, because it was released in the holidays now.

I love films and always hated downloads, especially downloads before release of DVD. I'm a movie freak and usually go to see a movie I like several times (my record was 12 times).

I agree it's possible the maybe not so poor but also not so great box office in US is due to the downloads, but I think also due to the fact that Narnia is much more rooted in Europe than it is in US. It's a childhood book more popular in Europe, something that everyone knows and recognizes at least at the LWW basis and usually as LWW-PC-VoDT trilogy, and the drive to go and see it is bigger in Europe... I don't know, it at least seems so to me. I of course don't intend to cause any offense, Aslan forbid! *is mortified at the prospect* There are plenty people in US who love and know Narnia, but on general scale, it seems to me Narnia is more 'ingrained' in Europe for some reason.

I certainly hope Fox and Walden will base their decision of green-lighting SC on the world gross!

I really don't think Bootlegs have anything to do with this at all... if bootlegging was a problem, ALL movies would fail domestically. Not to mention piracy is actually more prevalent outside of the US. Also, the people most likely to download films are not going to be interested in Narnia anyway.

I really think LWW was disappointing to most (aside from fans of the book) and people just didn't care afterwards... It obviously has it's following or it wouldn't be doing as good as it is... but as far as mass audience is concerned, it's missing something.

I never really cared for any of the movies and most people I know don't either. The only people who generally care are narnia fans or Christians. I don't care for the movies cause I think they could have been all made so much better and each one is disappointing. I can't help but think this is what most people feel too. The only reason I still stand by the movies is because I love the books... But I really am hoping for a reboot in 20 years or something

I think the odds that VDT is doing badly being connected to illegal downloads is about as likely as bumping into the WW on your local grocery store's candy aisle. This is not The Incredible Hulk or Wolverine or any of the other teen and young adult oriented movies that made the news over piracy. It's a film aimed at children that few over the age of ten who are not already members of the fandom are even going to be interested in.

Whatever your personal feelings about the film may be, the fact is that VDT was not a very good film. It didn't fail because of the weather, those nasty complaining purists, an evil conspiracy against Christian-themed movies, or any of the other theories that were offered. It has a rating of 49% on Rotten Tomatoes, the user rating on IMDB languishes around 6.5. It was a poorly-crafted film. Maybe if they'd tossed in lots of lowest common denominator drek like explosions every other second and endless fight scenes, it would have lured in the ADHD-ridden masses who don't give a darn about quality storytelling, but it didn't have that either.

If by some miracle SC is greenlit, they're going to have to acknowledge the fact that middle-of-the-road mediocrity is not how one builds a successful franchise and get some people with some passion who will do the project justice. People who just want a paycheck aren't going to cut the mustard anymore.

I think the odds that VDT is doing badly being connected to illegal downloads is about as likely as bumping into the WW on your local grocery store's candy aisle. This is not The Incredible Hulk or Wolverine or any of the other teen and young adult oriented movies that made the news over piracy. It's a film aimed at children that few over the age of ten who are not already members of the fandom are even going to be interested in.

Whatever your personal feelings about the film may be, the fact is that VDT was not a very good film. It didn't fail because of the weather, those nasty complaining purists, an evil conspiracy against Christian-themed movies, or any of the other theories that were offered. It has a rating of 49% on Rotten Tomatoes, the user rating on IMDB languishes around 6.5. It was a poorly-crafted film. Maybe if they'd tossed in lots of lowest common denominator drek like explosions every other second and endless fight scenes, it would have lured in the ADHD-ridden masses who don't give a darn about quality storytelling, but it didn't have that either.

If by some miracle SC is greenlit, they're going to have to acknowledge the fact that middle-of-the-road mediocrity is not how one builds a successful franchise and get some people with some passion who will do the project justice. People who just want a paycheck aren't going to cut the mustard anymore.

Well I strongly disagree with that. First I think that Dawn Treader is a good film. Maybe not a great film. But pretty good. Also many bad films have done much better in the box office. The fact that the opening was so low indicates that the quality of the film was not the issue. It the legs had been bad, then I might agree that the general audiance did not like it. However, this isn't the thread, I guess, to discuss this. Honestly I don't think movie piracy has anything to do with this failing. It could effect Japans gross since it has been released everywhere so far in advance. In the end the franchise has been mismanaged, poorly publicized etc. So many reasons. Piracy is the least of its worries.

Piracy is not the reason Narnia is disappointing. I think there is a sizable amount of fans like Bookwrym, yet I don't think VDT is a bad film.

Rather I think that the reason VDT disappointed was because it strayed from its source material. I can see why they made the additions and I am fine with them, however many purist fans were not ok with this and voted with their wallets. If you have noticed, the markets where VDT has tended to disappoint are in the countries where Narnia is most ingrained in literary culture (US, Canada, UK & Australia). And even though the CON has been translated into many languages, there is no doubt that the Chronicles are much more prevelent in those English speaking countries that I mentioned. This would explain why VDT is doing magnificently in countries like Russia, China, France etc where CON is not as read and the populace does not compare it to it's source material and judges it purely as a film.. Which brings me to my next point.
VDT wouldn't be excelling so well in these other countries if it was a bad film - it so obviously is a good film, despite some of the pacing issues.

So what is my humble opinion? Honor the source material more, which should be easier with Silver Chair - if it gets made. Don't get me wrong, I personally love the PC and VDT film more than LWW, but I am not the demographic that Fox is trying to recapture. In the end, I think that at this point, the franchise will be driven more by the booklovers than children or 'teens' and the word of mouth will spread from there.

I think the odds that VDT is doing badly being connected to illegal downloads is about as likely as bumping into the WW on your local grocery store's candy aisle.

Whatever your personal feelings about the film may be, the fact is that VDT was not a very good film. It has a rating of 49% on Rotten Tomatoes, the user rating on IMDB languishes around 6.5. It was a poorly-crafted film.

Well I strongly disagree with that. First I think that Dawn Treader is a good film. Maybe not a great film. But pretty good. Also many bad films have done much better in the box office. The fact that the opening was so low indicates that the quality of the film was not the issue. It the legs had been bad, then I might agree that the general audiance did not like it. However, this isn't the thread, I guess, to discuss this. Honestly I don't think movie piracy has anything to do with this failing.

I also partially disagree with Bookwyrm. Didn't you say you boycotted the film? Did you see it then on the internet? Otherwise, how you do you know if it's as bad as you say? Just wondering. Knowing the source material, and knowing the changes isn't enough. You'd have to see it whole to know best.

But I do agree with you both, piracy is not the reason it didn't gross higher, Avatar was the most pirated last year and look at its BO- piracy isn't always the problem. One thing we all know, PC nearly killed the series- or rather, Disney with its release date. Fox did well in putting VDT in December. It opened to less but its holds have been good, soon to push it past $100m and over PC internationally. But that's more in detail in the BO thread. Point here is, if people keep going for it, it means people have enjoyed it. VDT has a 6.7 rating on IMDb, not 6.5. LWW itself only has 7.0 and PC 6.8- So the difference isn't all that much. People enjoyed it.

But I wouldn't say it's "failing" as Tarquin said.

It has made over 60% profit domestically and thus can NOT be considered a flop.

Did it perform below our expectations? Perhaps.

Can it be officially labeled a box office bomb? Absolutely not.

VDT did not fail. Narnia did not fail. Do not lose hope.

So I guess we are to look at all this from Reepicheep's glass is half full perspective?

It's a film aimed at children that few over the age of ten who are not already members of the fandom are even going to be interested in.

I disagree with the rest of Bookwyrm's post, especially as he said he boycotted the movie. But he has really made a valid point about this bit I quoted. You see, most of the people who did want to see the movie were parents with children, who also wanted to attend, or people of the same age as parents, even if they weren't accompanied by children. A sales rep who mentioned that he had seen it, told me that this is the pre-Harry Potter generation who felt the same way about Narnia as today's teenagers feel about Harry Potter, something I can also relate to.

Unfortunately this is the very age group that would be most unlikely to attend midnight premiers, unless Her Majesty is attending also, and who are most likely to pass up on any movie show children might want to see if there is a blizzard going on, especially if school and jobs are more of a priority around 9th December. It actually snowed in London the night VDT was premiered, and there has been a fairly cold La Nina related winter in that part of the planet. Whilst in Russia the weather has been not nearly as chilly as it should be. Didn't I hear last week that the latest snowfalls have left something like 49 out of the 50 mainland states of the USA, snowed under?

In Australia, these are also the very ones most likely to find themselves flood-bound, initially in New South Wales, then Queensland, including Brisbane, itself, or now in Victoria, fighting to save what they have, rather than attending movie shows. And sure enough, apart from Tangled, which has been going for ages in USA, and was only released here last week, or Harry Potter, which had already grabbed an expected worldwide attention, none of the other movies showing around about Christmas have done much better than VDT in Australia. Some like Date Due, released at the same time as VDT, have already sunk without trace.

I agree that the marketing for VDT was lousy and not very noticeable down here. And I still think that the Philip Pullman mind set about Narnia would also be a factor in lower than expected US earnings, even if Christian fans, themselves, were dubious about the theology involved in VDT. I still hope that VDT will at least even the score against Golden Compass, even if Harry Potter left VDT, er, marooned.

I think VDT was an average movie and a mediocre adaptation but the poor economy probably didn't help matters.

I think the reason why people aren't going to see it the way we had hoped they would is because they're not really that interested, or because they didn't really hear about it that much to get interested. I can't say how it is in other parts, but none of my friends are very keen on seeing it, and I never hear it mentioned by anyone around here.

Also, in support of Bookwyrm, I would just like to say I saw the film myself and was greatly disappointed. I agree with everything Bookwyrm said on the subject. The film had no passion, and no heart. I saw nothing in it that would lead me to believe the filmmakers even cared about the story they were telling. Sure, the movie didn't do badly financially. But it didn't do good either. And that's the reason. The move doesn't make you care to see it again. The people I know who have seen it, say even worse about it than I do. It's just a mediocre film, plain and simple.

~Riella

I wouldn't go so far as to say that the movie had "no passion, and no heart" but most of the time, that would hold true for VDT. It didn't help that the scriptwriters took what was unique about the Narnia books and somehow made them more generic adventures.