Posted by: @icarus

 

In many ways I would say that the Walden movies weren't twee enough. Given that the Narnia stories are fairly playful books for children, the overall sensibility of the movies seemed to be to amp up the LOTR like elements (battles, action, chases) and downplay the whimsical elements (the parties, the romps and such).

However I would still agree with you that I would like to see a more realistic look in the new films. This has nothing to do with tone, but more so with cinematography. The Walden movies, despite having some amazing production design were shot with a very heightened colour palette, very little natural light, and overall had a somewhat larger than life vibe to then (even somewhat cartoonist look by the third film) which for me diminished the sense of Narnia as a real world 

A movie can still be playful, whimsical and joyful yet still have a realistic cinematography.

Wow - so much this.  I've always thought that I wanted a more realistic look in the new series, but I hadn't thought about how much the lighting on set might factor into that.  Especially what you mentioned about depth and shadows. Netflix probably wouldn't go for this, but if they were willing to shoot on actual film (especially 35mm) that would definitely add to the grit and authenticity. 

I've been hesitant to post this because I feel like it's unrelated to the actual topic but since people keep coming back to it, I will. I like that they didn't use natural lighting in the Walden Media Narnia movies. I can't say why. That's just...exactly how I picture Narnia. (I'd try to apologize by saying that I may have been influenced by Deborah Mayze's Narnia picture books which I read at a young but the lighting in them looks natural to me. ) 

I was also hesitant to write this because I can't really make an argument as to why the Walden Narnia movies look like Narnia to me. It's just so subjective. I can't convince people that what looks bad to them really looks good and they can't convince me that what looks good to me really looks bad. I love a good debate but that's just never going to be one. However, there have enough posts in this topic expressing disapproval of the lighting for the Narnia movies that I thought it only fair that my tastes be represented here too.

To desperately try to relate this post to the topic , I guess that's sort of why some fans want adaptations to be darker and some don't. We all just imagine the world of Narnia in slightly different ways though there are some things I know we all agree on too. Me? I don't necessarily feel like we need adaptations that are darker than we've gotten but I wouldn't say Narnia should never be dark. The scene I'm most interested in seeing in any LWW adaptation is Aslan's death. For some reason, that's a part of the story that's really captured my imagination in part because it's so much darker than other parts of it.   

Posted by: @col-klink

I've been hesitant to post this because I feel like it's unrelated to the actual topic but since people keep coming back to it, I will.

Honestly, that's fine with me (seeing as I started this thread and this little rabbit trail fascinates me just as much). 

To desperately try to relate this post to the topic , I guess that's sort of why some fans want adaptations to be darker and some don't. We all just imagine the world of Narnia in slightly different ways though there are some things I know we all agree on too. Me? I don't necessarily feel like we need adaptations that are darker than we've gotten but I wouldn't say Narnia should never be dark. The scene I'm most interested in seeing in any LWW adaptation is Aslan's death. For some reason, that's a part of the story that's really captured my imagination in part because it's so much darker than other parts of it.     

That's pretty much where I'm at with this (seeing as the books are all pretty lighthearted and playful, except when they're not). But yeah, if they can somehow find a way to portray Aslan's death without either sanitizing it too much or traumatizing their audience, that would be ideal. 

I would love to discuss cinematography further in its own thread (maybe I'll start one if there isn't already such a thread in existence 😊)! 

Another I thought of is that as far as dark goes, if they actually show Tirian and Jewel charging at the Calormene slave drivers and killing them. The book states that Tirian beheads one and Jewel pierces another in the chest.

I kind of wonder if instead, they cut to Tirian untying the horse. In a lot of religious movies I've seen, especially the ones about Jesus, they show the guards going down to John the Baptist's prison, getting ready to behead him, but they never show the actual beheading. So it would be idea to show Tirian and Jewel charging toward the Calormen slave drivers then cut to where Tirian unties the horse.

Posted by: @jasmine_tarkheena

Another I thought of is that as far as dark goes, if they actually show Tirian and Jewel charging at the Calormene slave drivers and killing them.

That largely depends on whether they're going for a story-oriented or an action thriller movie. Showing Tirian and Jewel slaying the Calormenes would likely push the rating to a PG-13, which would set an entirely different feel compared to Walden's movies.

If I remember correctly, Tolkien's essay "On Fairy Stories" suggested that it was unbeneficial to remove the disturbing details from fairytales. He argued that it would be better to wait until the child was older than to alter parts of the story. I wonder what Lewis would think about removing the gorier parts in film adaptions of his books.

@azog-the-defiler 

I had the same thought. That's why I was thinking they don't actually have to show it, given it would be too dark.

I think a good guide would be to follow Pauline Baynes' illustrations which Lewis had total approval over. For example, in the battle scenes, they show creatures struggling, but there's no blood, biting, blood spraying, or rolling heads.

I do think the big-screen movies got too graphic in places. One was the final battle in LWW, which, to me, was indistinguishable from a battle scene in a more adult movie. There's one shot of a poor gryphon being turned to stone in mid-air and then falling and smashing on some rocks. I don't think Lucy's cordial could cure *that,* nor Aslan's breath. He was dead for good, whereas the book made it seem that stoned and mortally wounded characters could be healed or brought back to life. Personally, I think it should have been cut, or shown him being restored. It was just too grim.

I didn't see PC, but the sea serpent in VotDT was really disgusting. More like something out of the Alien movie franchise. I would have gone with something more dinosaurlike and reptilian. Anyway that's my two cents.

Posted by: @cobalt-jade

I think a good guide would be to follow Pauline Baynes' illustrations which Lewis had total approval over. For example, in the battle scenes, they show creatures struggling, but there's no blood, biting, blood spraying, or rolling heads.

There was an illustration in The Last Battle with a severed head in an inconspicuous part of the drawing, I believe at the point where Tirian and Jewel killed the Calormene. It wasn't at a focal point in the drawing, but was was still relatively realistic.

Also, the mortally wounded could be restored, but the dead would be in Aslan's country. I doubt that there's been a battle fought in the history of mankind or Narnia where there wasn't some loss of life. To echo Frodo's before he sailed to Valinor, sometimes people have to give up what they fought for so others can enjoy them.

Posted by: @cobalt-jade

I think a good guide would be to follow Pauline Baynes' illustrations which Lewis had total approval over. For example, in the battle scenes, they show creatures struggling, but there's no blood, biting, blood spraying, or rolling heads.

I do think the big-screen movies got too graphic in places. One was the final battle in LWW, which, to me, was indistinguishable from a battle scene in a more adult movie. There's one shot of a poor gryphon being turned to stone in mid-air and then falling and smashing on some rocks. I don't think Lucy's cordial could cure *that,* nor Aslan's breath. He was dead for good, whereas the book made it seem that stoned and mortally wounded characters could be healed or brought back to life. Personally, I think it should have been cut, or shown him being restored. It was just too grim.

 

I don't remember too many details of the battle scene in the Walden LWW — I've only been able to bring myself to watch the entire movie once (the first time, at the cinema) — but I know I also thought it was far too overdone for the tone and age-range of the Narnia books. Even if they want this to have some appeal to older audiences, Gerwig and any other future directors and producers should keep in mind that these are children's books and they are aimed primarily at, well, primary school children. Changing that and making them inappropriate for viewers under 12 would mess up the whole tone of the stories, for sure.

I mentioned elsewhere — I just looked and it's in the previous page of this thread — that I can imagine how they could do, for example, the scene in LB where the Talking Horses are all killed by the Dwarfs as they rush to join the battle, in a way that makes clear enough how horrific a moment it is without showing close-ups of blood and arrow-wounds and so on. The same would go for the rest of the fighting in LB, and for the other scenes throughout the Chronicles where some violence is necessary to the plot but it shouldn't put young viewers (or their parents!!) off. Very often, suggesting something horrifying, without ever actually showing it visually, is more than enough to give viewers the chills — in fact, that can in some ways be even more powerful than showing something graphic. I hope those in charge of the next screen adaptations are smart enough to be able to do that appropriately.

@courtenay 

Right. Well, I do at least give credit for Walden having Edmund break the White Witch's wand (which, of course, he does in all three of the screen adaptations of LWW I've seen). It really brings out his character arch in a way.

I've always imagined the Battle of Stable Hill being intense. I actually picture in my head Tirian and Rishda dueling in slow motion until they get to the stable door way. Then Tirian steps back into the stable, grabs Rishda, and says, "Hey, come on in! Why don't you meet Tash yourself?"