Posted by: @col-klink

I don't like to stereotype either. But have there been any recent mainstream movies, shows or books in which characters were praised for following orders from an authority figure? I can't think of one, at least, not one from Western culture. Maybe there's been some from Eastern storytellers. 

Harry Potter following Dumbledore's orders to make him (Dumbledore) drink that potion to get at the Horcrux, even though it was putting Dumbledore in agony? (I haven't seen the film and it's years since I read the book — that's Half-Blood Prince — so I can't remember all the details, but it was a pretty wrenching scene.) Obviously the idea of just "following orders" because they come from a particular authority figure, who is to be obeyed without question, hasn't been popular in most modern societies since at least the end of WW2. But that's not what Lewis was trying to get at, which should be clear enough from the book and from any knowledge of his life.

Actually, Digory's choice when Jadis tempts him in MN — should he take the apple for his mother, against Aslan's orders, or obey Aslan and (as it seems) let his mother die? — is, I would say, a far more confronting and heart-wrenching exploration of that theme of whom to obey and why. But it's helped by the fact that in the context of the book, we already know that Jadis is thoroughly evil and we've had plenty of evidence (even without having read the other books) that Aslan is good. I'd say the same goes for The Silver Chair, provided it's not the first movie made in the new series, which it surely won't be. We'll hopefully have seen enough times before that Aslan knows things that mere mortals don't and following his commands always leads to good, even if it's not at all obvious at the time.

I think I get where your concerns are coming from — that so much of popular culture is geared towards following your heart and doing your own thing, rather than obeying a higher authority than your personal desires and whims. But I won't give up hoping just yet that the future director(s) will be able to "get" what Lewis is saying in those scenes and adapt them accurately. As I just said, he's actually not advocating blind faith in an authority figure, as we (the audience) do already know enough about Aslan to know it's wisest to trust him. (And any director who honestly thinks Aslan should praise people for disobeying him, clearly hasn't read the books and shouldn't be directing the films. I don't think they'll go THAT far off the rails... well, I could be wrong there, but I hope not.   )

I also don't think Netflix will want to do a continuation of the Walden franchise — not after the last film in it (VDT) pretty much bombed. As you said, hardly anyone remembers it, but SC won't make much sense without it.

Going further off topic, I've got another reason why SC would be a bad one to film first (and a bad one to read first) — without any of the earlier stories, we've got no knowledge of who Aslan is and of why Jill ought to trust this quite scary talking lion. It's a story that doesn't stand up well on its own at all. So I'm sure we're safe from that happening!!

I would hope that Greta Gerwig has at least read the Narnia books once before attempting to direct the two films. I don’t think she will be in a rush to make them even though many fans will want the films.  The whole situation looks better than it did just a short time ago. I think we can look forward to something in the near future. 🙂

I'm not sure how off the topic of this we've become but I wanted to say that I personally just think that the stories of Narnia are more than just an allegory of Christianity, they're a magical, fantastical, character-led adventures that are deeply imbued with spiritual meaning, and I don't think it's something a writer or creative would miss, let alone not understand. It's just a matter of whether it's important to the adaptation those specific writers/creatives want to tell...

While it may not be what you would've done, each adaptation is a product of who and what the adaptations were made for. For example, the Walden series was an obvious response to the surge in fantasy franchises and the success of Lord Of The Rings, so it was more important to make the story bigger and more adventurous in scale and focus. 

It's hard to say where Netflix wants to go with it, but the hiring of Greta Gerwig speaks volume to me..

She's a writer/creative who deals in depth and meaning, even with Barbie it seems, so I think even if Netflix wants to keep the scale of the Walden movies, I think it's Greta who will infuse more of those elements that a lot of us want. There might not be as much of the allegory/spirituality as some may want, as Greta also seems to be good at a more modern approach even in the case of a period film, but I wouldn't say Greta is the person to completely ignore or sideline it for the benefit of simpler storytelling. I've said it before and I'll say it again: I trust her.

Here's some what I can expect from Greta Gerwig's Narnia films-

* Different sets and locations. The setting will look different. I would be fine is she want to Cair Paravel to look different in SC than it does in LWW and even in HHB. It was rebuilt between PC and VDT.

Then of course, each of the Narnia books gives us a glimpse of different location.

MN- There is Lantern Waste, the Western Wild, and the Tree of Youth.

LWW- there is the woodlands, Beaver's dam, the Stone Table, and Cair Paravel.

HHB- Tashbaan, the Tombs of the Ancient Kings, the Great Desert, and Anvard.

PC- The ruins of Cair Paravel, Aslan's Howe, Beruna, and the Dancing Lawn.

VDT- the Great Eastern Ocean and the islands.

SC- Owl Wood, Marshland, Ettinsmoor, Harfang, and Underland.

LB- Lantern Waste. I don't know we'll get to see Tashbaan in LB again, even though the story involves Calormenes. I don't even know we'll get see Cair Paravel in this, given it was exterminated by the Calormenes.

So I would be happy if there were different locations for each Narnia films.

I have not seen any of Greta Gerwig’s films, but if she completed a good version of Little Women it shows that she is at least competent at making a classic of children’s literature, With that kind of experience she would probably be able to make a decent film of a Narnia book. I think that she deserves a chance, and it is a good thing that something appears to be in the creative process.

I hate to add my voice to this discussion's negative/skeptical side- but my gut sank the moment I heard the news. It feels less of a "best person for the job" situation and more of yet another "historic" decision. For me, there are more red flags than reasons to hold my breath:

• The director is a feminist first- a director second by her own admissions.
• The Barbie Movie blatantly pushes radical feminist, sexual, and gender ideologies.
• The director has not touched on anything remotely fantasy-based.

  The Rings of Power lead up included a lot of interviews where the creators pretended they cared about the lore, the core values, and the characters themselves. They were given a lot of money and a lot of free reign with the property and it was an absolute disaster.

I sincerely hope that I'm wrong and that Gerwig can subvert the expectations of folks such as myself, but between the studio and the portfolio of the director I expect that CS Lewis' work will be stripped of everything save for the superficial.

I'm sure that if CS Lewis released The Chronicles of Narnia today, people would complain the gender-balanced line-ups of child protagonists in almost all of the stories was "political correctness gone mad" and the fact that the younger girls are invariably the lead characters would be viewed as some sort of "woke conspiracy", not to mention lines such as Lucy's retort to Edmund's map quip about "because our heads have something in them" being part of some radical feminist agenda to emasculate young boys everywhere.

I guess what I'm saying is that the Chronicles of Narnia are in many ways a pretty progressive book series, and I don't see their sensibilities being a million miles away from Greta Gerwigs. I think anyone who's seen her adaptation of Little Women should have a pretty good idea of where she would be likely to take a story like LWW - particularly in the sense that her Little Women is all about authorial intent and the voice of the writer.

Posted by: @icarus

I'm sure that if CS Lewis released The Chronicles of Narnia today...the fact that the younger girls are invariably the lead characters would be viewed as some sort of "woke conspiracy"

I agree people would complain about that because people are always complaining about politics nowadays but the younger girls really aren't the lead characters in most of the stories. Lucy is our POV character for the first couple of chapters of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe but in general, she's presented as one protagonist among many. Much the same could be said for her role in Prince Caspian. In The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, she's only the focus of three chapters (at most) and all the other POV characters, Caspian, Edmund, Eustace and Reepicheep are male. Polly is the deuteragonist of The Magician's Nephew but Digory gets all the emotional drama and character development. Aravis shares the protagonist status with Shasta and Bree in The Horse and his Boy. In The Last Battle, Tirian is really the protagonist and Jill is more like a sidekick and the only female sidekick at that. The only book in the series that I can say without reservation belongs to its young female lead is The Silver Chair-and Jill spends most of that book making bad choices. 

I'm sorry if that last sentence sounds like I'm bashing Jill. Her weaknesses in The Silver Chair are what make her so relatable to readers both male and female. Jill is us. We are Jill. We're all trying to follow the signs and get through our jobs with as little discomfort as possible and all of us are messing up and regretting our choices. I'm just saying that I think readers sometimes see Lucy as the main character because of sentimental attachment to her and not because of a neutral analysis of her role in the narrative. Hope that doesn't offend anyone too much. 

Posted by: @icarus

I think anyone who's seen (Greta Gerwig's) adaptation of Little Women should have a pretty good idea of where she would be likely to take a story like LWW - particularly in the sense that her Little Women is all about authorial intent and the voice of the writer.

Wait. What does The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe have to do with authorial intent or the voice of the writer? The only connection between those ideas I can think of is that C. S. Lewis sometimes refer to himself in the prose, saying, for example, that he agrees with the characters that "there's nothing to beat good freshwater fish if you eat it when it has been alive half an hour ago and has come out of the pan half a minute ago" or that he's not going to describe some of the White Witch's followers because otherwise "the grownups would probably not let you read this book." If Greta Gerwig wanted to make a movie about authors and writing from LWW, it would confirm to me that she had no real interest in the source material. (This is coming from someone who really admires her screenplay for Little Women BTW.)

Posted by: @col-klink

Wait. What does The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe have to do with authorial intent or the voice of the writer? 

I guess what I mean there is that the idea that Greta Gerwig would simply steamroller over CS Lewis's intentions doesn't hold weight given that she made a very deliberate choice to make Louisa May Alcott's perspective in writing that book a central part of the film.

Yes it's a slightly different set of circumstances, but to me it shows she is the sort of director who would take genuine care over the book she's adapting, and that the authors original vision is something she considers important.

Posted by: @icarus

I guess what I mean there is that the idea that Greta Gerwig would simply steamroller over CS Lewis's intentions doesn't hold weight given that she made a very deliberate choice to make Louisa May Alcott's perspective in writing that book a central part of the film.

Yes it's a slightly different set of circumstances, but to me it shows she is the sort of director who would take genuine care over the book she's adapting, and that the authors original vision is something she considers important.

Ah, well, from what I understand those were special circumstances. From what she's said, the book Little Women was a big part of her childhood and Louisa May Alcott was something of a personal hero to her. A lot of the latter seems to be because Alcott was a female author when that wasn't the norm just like Gerwig is a female director when that's not the norm. I see no reason to believe she would have the same admiration for C. S. Lewis or any other random author or that she would have the same respect for any random book that she has for Little Women.

Posted by: @tigryph

• The director is a feminist first- a director second by her own admissions.
• The Barbie Movie blatantly pushes radical feminist, sexual, and gender ideologies.

Hi Tigryph, do you have specific sources for these? I'm a news poster for NW, and I've looked on Google and haven't been able to find a quote where she's saying that she's a feminist first and a director second. It seems like the sort of quote that may make more sense in context. I'm guessing the ideologies that are associated with the Barbie movie are from an early review since it isn't in theaters yet?

While it's likely that fans won't agree or identify with everything Gerwig has said or worked on in the past, it's really helpful to know where these perspectives on her come from, so links are much appreciated during these discussions. (And helpful to news posters like me. )

Posted by: @col-klink

From what she's said, the book Little Women was a big part of her childhood and Louisa May Alcott was something of a personal hero to her. A lot of the latter seems to be because Alcott was a female author when that wasn't the norm just like Gerwig is a female director when that's not the norm. I see no reason to believe she would have the same admiration for C. S. Lewis or that she would have the same respect for any random book that she has for Little Women.

Is this based on an interview with Gerwig? I ask because Louisa May Alcott was one of my childhood heroes as well, and it wasn't because she was a female author at a time when it wasn't the norm... and I had actually read a biography of her before reading Little Women. I just really liked the book and admired her as a writer.

Posted by: @rose

Is this based on an interview with Gerwig? I ask because Louisa May Alcott was one of my childhood heroes as well, and it wasn't because she was a female author at a time when it wasn't the norm... and I had actually read a biography of her before reading Little Women. I just really liked the book and admired her as a writer.

It's from her introduction to the published screenplay for the 2019 movie. Here's a link. It's well worth the read. little-women-2020-script-pdf.pdf

I'm also basing that on interviews with her from the behind-the-scenes featurettes on the Blu-ray. I'm afraid I can't remember which featurettes specifically though. Sorry about that. 

I do think it's possible she could reveal that she's just as much an enthusiastic fan of Narnia in the broad sense that it's possible someone on Narniaweb might win the lottery one day. 

Considering we've never heard Greta Gerwig speak on the Narnia books, it'd be hard to say what kind of attachment she has to them, but either way, I don't think that's completely necessary when adapting these stories, and there's absolutely no reason so far to believe that she'll create anything that strips or disrespects C.S. Lewis' work.

I also 100% agree with @icarus that she'll take absolute care over what she's adapting, while also still paying mind that this would be her adaptation. Not yours, not mine. Hers, and might there be something we wouldn't have done ourselves? Of course, so did all the other people who've adapted these books? But to assume she'd completely take away from the original book and its author, just because she's a feminist who isn't afraid to tackle different topics within her work that seem to go against certain political standpoints, I personally think is jumping the shark somewhat.

The quality and standard of her work speaks more to me than her political views, and should do.

Posted by: @col-klink

It's from her introduction to the published screenplay for the 2019 movie. Here's a link. It's well worth the read. little-women-2020-script-pdf.pdf

Thanks! I think I found what you're referencing.

• "I believed I could be a writer both because Jo March was a writer, and because Louisa May Alcott actually wrote the book I loved so much. I wanted to find both of these elements in my film. To create a movie that is both emotional and cubist, both intellectual and intuitive. I wanted to find the “author” all the way through. The author as the character of Jo March, the author of Louisa May Alcott, and the author of myself, as a filmmaker. Growing up, my heroine was Jo March, and as a woman, it is Louisa May Alcott." -Greta Gerwig
  

I have to be honest, though, that quote doesn't sound feminist at all to me. The most feminist part about it is the mention of Jo March, who is (somewhat) a feminist icon, but I feel like that's a bit of reach. I could have written something similar at one point in my life, and it wouldn't have been about feminism per se. I read a lot of classic women authors in my childhood and adolescence; Alcott was one of the ones who influenced and inspired me the most as a young writer.

IMO, it reads about the same as Neil Gaiman saying that C. S. Lewis inspired him to become a writer:

• "C.S. Lewis was the first person to make me want to be a writer. He made me aware of the writer, that there was someone standing behind the words, that there was someone telling the story. I fell in love with the way he used parentheses — the auctorial asides that were both wise and chatty, and I rejoiced in using such brackets in my own essays and compositions through the rest of my childhood. I think, perhaps, the genius of Lewis was that he made a world that was more real to me than the one I lived in; and if authors got to write the tales of Narnia, then I wanted to be an author." -Neil Gaiman
  

Posted by: @tigryph

I sincerely hope that I'm wrong and that Gerwig can subvert the expectations of folks such as myself, but between the studio and the portfolio of the director I expect that CS Lewis' work will be stripped of everything save for the superficial.

I respect your opinion Tigryph. I know for me personally, I've 100% turned into a wait and see kind of person.

I never expected to get Lord of the Rings movies out of the guy who directed The Frightners. I never expected to get The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe from the guy who directed Shrek. 

On the flip side, I didn't expect to get The Hobbit Trilogy out of the guy who directed Lord of the Rings and I didn't expect to get The Voyage of the Dawn Treader out of the guy who directed Amazing Grace. 

I am 100% on the fence and far more nervous about Netflix than I am about Gerwig. We shall see....