Posted by: @jasmine_tarkheena

Emeth is actually my favorite character in the series, and the scene where he meets with Aslan is actually my favorite scene.

No-one could ever have guessed, surely... (going by your signature quote!)

If Greta Gerwig does The Last Battle, I don't know if she'll want to keep it in or cut it out. I do hope she'll keep it in. If she does, I would be concern that she'll probably want to rush through it or tweaked it. Oh, I understand that some things in the books are going to have to require some changes to make it work for a new medium. Though I hope that the scene where Emeth meets with Aslan is 100% from the book. Yet, it may not happened that way.

Whoever does write / direct The Last Battle — if the series gets that far, since it really needs to be done as the final one! — my thought is that they will almost certainly keep that scene in, and perhaps even expand on it, or on Emeth's character in general. For people who are concerned that a fantasy series based on a Christian worldview would have to be exclusive and condemnatory towards people of other faiths (or none), it's an absolutely crucial scene. To Lewis, what gets you into heaven (or not) is not what god or religion you professed to believe in during this life, but where your heart truly is and how you respond — with hatred or with love — when you meet the real God face to face.

Interestingly, the only commentator I've ever seen having a problem with that concept was a Christian writer (I do remember what book this was, but won't quote it or name the author out of respect) who deeply appreciated almost everything in the Narnia books but was clearly almost tying himself in knots with horror at the (to him) wrongness of Emeth being allowed into heaven. That's why I've said before, in some ways I'd trust a not-religious-but-sympathetic director to get Narnia "right" more than a religious-with-a-theological-agenda one!  

It will be interesting to hear Greta Gerwig's thoughts on the series, if she actually read them or even had them read to her when she was a child.

Yes, that's the thing I'd most love to know, much more than what themes she's covered in her previous movies or what her favourite "adult" books are! But they're so popular worldwide, and have been for 70 or so years now, that it would be hard to miss them — and I would guess that if Gerwig had any huge objections to their content, she probably wouldn't have agreed to make films of them in the first place. I'm hoping we'll hear more in the future.

Posted by: @bismdweller

My biggest worry is that we'll get something like the third Harry Potter adaptation: a competently made film which cuts out memorable themes and doesn't quite nail the themes of the book.

Oddly enough, that's kind of how I would describe all 3 of the Walden Media movies - there were just far too many times when great moments from the book got cut or altered because they clashed with the "blockbuster" sensibilities the filmmakers were looking to go for. Pretty much every part of the book that one might describe as whimsical or unconventional got "gritted up" and action-ified in order to make the story fit a more conventional movie structure.

The Walden films have almost this sort of apologetic embarrassment when it comes to things like Father Christmas in LWW or the romp in Prince Caspian, and by downplaying or removing these sorts of moments i feel they drastically alter the tone and overall themes of the story. The major plus point here then is that i simply cannot see Greta Gerwig doing the same sorts of things that Walden did with their adaptation.

In terms of Religion, as many are now discovering, Greta seems to have a fairly strong personal attachment to her own Catholic upbringing, has a good appreciation of Christian concepts from 4 years of theology lessons at school, and has seemingly made a very conscious effort to incorporate some degree of religious iconography into all of her movies so far. In terms of major Hollywood directors, I doubt you are ever going to find anyone else who is as sympathetic towards incorporating Christian values in their art.

In terms of the other major perennial NarniaWeb fear of adding Battles, I just cannot see Greta Gerwig being so pre-occupied with the idea of shoe-horning giant action set-pieces and climactic battles into every single story as Walden Media were:

In terms of Romance, I also cannot see Greta Gerwig trying to force Romantic sub-plots into the stories in the same way Walden Media did:

All in all, i think the biggest problem with Walden Media's movies is that they took books which are delightfully unconventional, and processed them through the mindset of traditional blockbuster film-making, with the absolute nadir being VDT getting heavily distorted in order to make it fit the 3 Act Narrative Structure. Absolutely no way Greta Gerwig is going to be so rigid in her thinking, and that for me is a huge source of optimism.

Posted by: @icarus

Oddly enough, that's kind of how I would describe all 3 of the Walden Media movies - there were just far too many times when great moments from the book got cut or altered because they clashed with the "blockbuster" sensibilities the filmmakers were looking to go for. Pretty much every part of the book that one might describe as whimsical or unconventional got "gritted up" and action-ified in order to make the story fit a more conventional movie structure.

Oh, that is precisely one of the things that most bugged me about the Walden LWW (I never watched the later two films, as I couldn't bear to after the first one!) — the way they were going for the "blockbuster" look and feel. The dramatic chase scene with the children and the Beavers fleeing the Witch across fields of ice (in the book, she doesn't come anywhere near them), the epic battle at the climax with the Narnian armies stretching as far as the eye can see... all totally lost the gentle, whimsical, understated, sometimes downright quirky tone of the original story.

Even the part where Lucy discovers the wardrobe — hidden under a sheet that she pulls away to reveal this towering, elaborately carved, grandiose piece of furniture, which just about screams out There's Something Mysterious About This Wardrobe and Something Magical will Happen if You Look Inside. Whereas in the book, it's just "one big wardrobe" with nothing extraordinary about it and it's merely childlike curiosity, not any aura of magic, that leads Lucy to have a look inside. (Very believable, too — I had the habit, as a kid, of looking into cupboards just to see what was in there (no, I WASN'T hoping for Narnia!) and Mum had to tell me severely not to do that when we were visiting other people, as it was very rude! )

Posted by: @icarus

In terms of Religion, as many are now discovering, Greta seems to have a fairly strong personal attachment to her own Catholic upbringing, has a good appreciation of Christian concepts from 4 years of theology lessons at school, and has seemingly made a very conscious effort to incorporate some degree of religious iconography into all of her movies so far. In terms of major Hollywood directors, I doubt you are ever going to find anyone else who is as sympathetic towards incorporating Christian values in their art.

In terms of the other major perennial NarniaWeb fear of adding Battles, I just cannot see Greta Gerwig being so pre-occupied with the idea of shoe-horning giant action set-pieces and climactic battles into every single story as Walden Media were:

Both of these things are just a huge relief to this Narnia fan, at least! If someone can truly capture the unique tone of those wonderful stories, that would make me happy even if not absolutely everything in the films is identical to the books — and it sounds like Gerwig just might be capable of doing that. We don't know for sure yet, but hopefully it won't be too long till we find out...

Posted by: @courtenay

Posted by: @icarus

There's an interview here where she reviews her top 10 books of all time...

 

https://onegrandbooks.com/shop/curators/actors/greta-gerwig/

@icarus I'm afraid I've only ever heard of (I think) two books in that whole list and haven't read any of them myself.... It'd be interesting (and more pertinent) to find out what her top 10 favourite children's books are....

So there is an interview here where she discusses her favourite childhood books, alongside Saoirse Ronan. Though i would note that the question does seem to be "favourite books from childhood", and not necessarily "favourite children's books as an adult", though hopefully it gives you some idea anyway....

As a summary, the books she mentions are:

• "Little Women" by Louisa May Alcott
• The "Ramona and Beezus" series by Beverly Cleary
• The "Anastasia Krupnik" series by Lois Lowry
• "Ballet Shoes" and "Theatre Shoes" by Mary Noel Streatfield
• "A Little Princess" by Frances Hodgson Burnett
• "Misty of Chincoteague" and "Brighty of the Grand Canyon" by Marguerite Henry

@icarus Thanks for the summary. Those are the kind of books I would have expected to be her childhood favorites judging by her movies. (I would not have expected The Chronicles of Narnia to be among her favorites, so I'm not disappointed.) 

Posted by: @icarus

• "A Little Princess" by Frances Hodgson Burnett

It's really lovely to hear her mention A Little Princess, as that was one of my childhood favorites and still one of my all-time favorites as an adult. Swanwhite from The Lion's Call once blew my mind by pointing out that Sara's story is almost exactly the story of Job from the Bible.

I've been thinking a bit about timescales this week, particularly with the Writers Guild and Actors Guild strikes still ongoing.

Since Greta Gerwig is both a Writer and an Actor herself, and presumably a member of both unions, she won't be starting work on anything untill the strikes are over - I saw one estimate that said to potentially expect it to run till at least October.

Therefore assuming that Greta is willing to jump straight into writing in November 2023, and can get that done in around six months (Matthew Aldrich seemed to imply he was working on his for 9 months) whilst some element of preproduction takes place concurrently, but likely extending for another few months after finishing the script, then potentially they could start shooting at the back end of 2024 (let's assume a Winter shoot for some LWW snow).

That would then take us into 2025, and would probably need to leave at least 10 or 11 months for post-production (assuming post-production is less expensive and less time consuming than back in 2005, and that Greta Gerwig might be more inclined to do more effects in-camera) which potentially could be looking at a Christmas 2025 release at the earliest, or potentially Summer 2026 if they are going for more of a Barbie Blockbuster market.

Even then that feels like a very optimistic estimate, and likely we'll be looking at least a 3 year development cycle, starting from whenever the strikes conclude, which isn't going to be anytime soon. Christmas 2026 perhaps?

I was reading another interview with Greta Gerwig today, where she mentions a few things that piqued my interest. Whilst it's similar to something that @Col-Klink mentioned before (intergenerational dynamics) it resonated with me much more in terms of being something that is quintessentially Narnian in nature:

"In some ways, all the movies I've co-written, written and directed are all talking to each other. It is almost a mystery to me when I'm in the middle of it. And then when I step back, I think, "Oh, you continue to be interested in women. This is something you're fascinated by." That ache of contradictions, of never being able to totally bridge that gap between adulthood and childhood, is present in this movie, too. It's this overflowing sense of joy, and then it's also, "I can never get back there."

https://www.wmagazine.com/culture/greta-gerwig-barbie-interview

This to me feels to really capture the emotional quality of Peter and Susan's ending in Prince Caspian, and Edmund and Lucy's ending in VDT - that sense that childhood is over, and they can never go back, both figuratively (to childhood) and literally (to Narnia).

I also just love that phrase of an "overflowing sense of joy". If Greta can deliver even a fraction of that sensibility to Narnia, I'll probably be happy.

I don't know if Gerwig is the best choice for Narnia, but she will at the very least be an interesting director.  She'll be able to put her own special artistic stamp on it in a way Andrew Adamson couldn't when he worked for Walden, and that will at least help make the movie feel like a work of art instead of a corporate product.

The following post contains spoilers for The Barbie Movie. I decided not to put them in spoilers because they're so vital to the post you can't just skip over them. If you don't want anything spoiled, you'd better not read this until you've watched the movie.

I actually heard something about how The Barbie Movie was influenced by Greta Gerwig's Catholic upbringing. (Actually, this relates to sects of Christianity besides Catholicism and, indeed, other religions besides Christianity.) She mentioned she was interested in the story of Barbie and Ken as a sort of gender flipped version of Adam and Eve's romance as depicted in the book of Genesis. There the first man felt incomplete after being created despite having dominion over everything, so God made the first woman for him. While the actual barbie dolls obviously didn't feel lonely, the consumers who played with them apparently wanted a boyfriend doll for Barbie, so Mattel created Ken.

I also heard that eventually in The Barbie Movie, Barbie tells Ken that his purpose for existing shouldn't be her and that they don't necessarily need each other. As someone who intends to stay single, I applaud this sentiment. However...

Earlier in this thread, Icarus mentioned that he didn't see Gerwig having a problem with Aslan since he's a supernatural lion and doesn't represent patriarchal authority and I said I didn't see why she wouldn't since she must know that Aslan is a depiction of the Abrahamic God, and many people consider the Abrahamic faiths examples of patriarchal religions that oppress women. Some people were offended by this and seemed to feel I was insulting Gerwig. (I don't get why when I used words like "intelligent" and "well educated" to describe her. Don't remember saying anything that nice about Matthew Aldrich or David Magee. ) But isn't that the inevitable implications of that subplot in The Barbie Movie? If Gerwig sees Barbie and Ken as corresponding to Adam and Eve and part of her movie's message is that Barbie and Ken shouldn't exist to complete each other, isn't she in effect criticizing that part of the Bible as being oppressive to people, women in particular (as Ken corresponds to Eve in the analogy?) Not that that's the main message of her film or anything but it would seem to be a subtext. 

I don't doubt that Gerwig takes influence from her Catholic background and that she likes to use narratives from the Bible as frameworks for her own stories, but that doesn't mean she never seeks to subvert or debunk those narratives. That's often why writers are fascinated by old stories, because they give them great material to be debunked or subverted. I have no particular hope that she won't seek to subvert or debunk the Christian aspects of the Narnia books. Indeed, I have more hope that a nonintellectual, non-thoughtful director could accurately convey the books' Christian themes through sheer accident.  

Having said that, I'm confident that a Narnia movie made by Greta Gerwig would still be better than the 2023 miniseries of Great Expectations. I mean, it couldn't very well be worse.    

I guess you could argue that it's precisely because she has a strong independent directorial voice that she is getting scrutinized more heavily than those other guys, but I still think we should not only give her the benefit of the doubt, but also give her the benefit of her own words and actions.

Posted by: @col-klink...

 If Gerwig sees Barbie and Ken as corresponding to Adam and Eve and part of her movie's message is that Barbie and Ken shouldn't exist to complete each other, isn't she in effect criticizing that part of the Bible as being oppressive to people, women in particular (as Ken corresponds to Eve in the analogy?) Not that that's the main message of her film or anything but it would seem to be a subtext. 

I guess you could sort of read that into the movie, but if it's there, then its an incredibly minor subtext, and one I would probably have to think really really hard about to see if it actually tracks throughout the movie, but I really don't have the energy for that  

I guess to try and make the Aslan debate simpler, I would  probably just say that I really can't see her going for a deconstruction of Aslan in which he is somehow representative of an oppressive male patriarchy, given that Aslan is already a metaphor for god within the story. It would  be "sticking a hat on a hat" as I believe the expression goes.

I just can't see a skilled director like Gerwig piling metaphor on top of metaphor in such a disjointed and incoherent way.

Essentially in order to make it work that Aslan = God and God = Patriarchy, you would have to portray Aslan as an objectionable character, which would then make it difficult for people to grasp the first part of the metaphor, which therefore undermines the last part. A self-contradictory piece of visual imagery.

@icarus Well said, all of the above. I haven't seen any of Gerwig's films, and time will (hopefully) tell exactly what she does do with Narnia, but from what I've heard of her, I honestly do not get the impression that she has an aversion towards mainstream Christianity, or indeed towards "maleness" in general. If she did have, I doubt she'd have agreed to take on Narnia as a project at all.

Posted by: @icarus

she is instantly targeted as being someone who would trample over the Christian elements of the story and disregard the text of the original story in adaptation, when she has no track record of ever doing so.... Not so much on this forum, but definitely moreso in the public comments section and elsewhere on the wider internet.

You do realize that she's only done one movie that's an adaptation of anything (I don't view The Barbie Movie as an adaptation of the Barbie brand) and it was based on a book to which she was emotionally attached, one that had some audience overlap with Lady Bird, her most popular film, and hardly any with Narnia?

I agree that people in public comments sections are likely to be rude, paranoid and somewhat hysterical but try not to take your frustration out in the forum too much since it'll make people who might not agree with you on everything feel like you're unfairly stereotyping them. 

Anyway, I agree that I'd be shocked if anyone watching The Barbie Movie though about Adam and Eve even once. (Of course, I'd also be shocked if anyone watching Lady Bird though about the biblical story of Peter denying Jesus.) The main thing I took away from Gerwig's comment about the religious influences behind her most recent movie is that she's...very pretentious. Which, yes, could be a promising sign for Narnia. But if people are going to keep repeating that her interest in religion means she'll stay true to the Christian themes of Narnia, I think it's perfectly valid to point out things that contradict that, especially if they're things that she herself has said. And since neither you nor Courtenay say you were offended by what I wrote, I feel pretty good about it. 

Posted by: @icarus

Andrew Adamson and Michael Apted were both pretty average work-a-day directors, with very little industry acclaim behind them, and yet people didn't really scrutinize their directorial aptitude or religious credentials in the same way

Well, it's been a very long time since fans of the books first heard about Andrew Adamson directing the first Narnia movie. I'm sure if you could recall those ancient days, you'd remember some people being skeptical about him too. I think a lot of what mystifies you is just the result of there not being a lot of information about Netflix and Gerwig's visions for Narnia yet. (It also might reflect general changes in the culture since the early 2000s.) I didn't think the choice of Andrew Adamson made a lot of sense when I first heard about it but then I read interviews with him where he talked about his ideas for the story and characters. I didn't agree with him about everything related to the books but what he was saying sounded interesting and I also got to see concept art and stills from the movie that looked promising. I'm hoping once Greta Gerwig does full interviews about Narnia, the same thing will happen. 

BTW I don't really care about industry acclaim. Sometimes I enjoy movies that are acclaimed by critics and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I also enjoy movies that are condemned by critics and sometimes I don't. 

P.S.

I've never known anyone to insult a director by calling them intelligent (unless, of course, they were using sarcasm.) I might hear people call directors stupid whom I consider intelligent but that's something else. 

So here's a Greta Gerwig quote from 2020 which perhaps sums things up well enough...

At 2:24 of the following video...

Vogue: Is there a story out there that you long to see a retelling of?

Gerwig: The bible, but from the point of view of all the women

The fact that she answers "the bible" without any sense of hesitation, indicates to me that religion, or at least religious story telling, are very much at the front-and-centre of her thoughts, and not merely an afterthought.

The fact that she adds "but from the point of view of all the women". reiterates what we already know about her desire to tell stories about the female perspective.

And the ever so slight laugh at.the end, perhaps indicates a slightly subversive or satirical viewpoint on the idea of a female perspective on the bible, but for me doesn't diminish the sincerity of the conviction in the overall statement.

As with the earlier quote I posted from her about "overwhelming joy", this for me is another quote which feels perfectly anchored into what LWW already is - a story with religious themes,.but also levity, centred largely around a female (Lucy).

The video quote above is exactly why I think some Narnia fans are leery about the choice of Gerwig to direct. Of course all filmmakers have their personal perspectives and biases that inform how they are going to present a story on-screen. I didn't know what that meant for Adamson and Apted; they had no obvious "axe to grind" as Gerwig seems to have.

I think her desire to have strong female perspectives in all her films (there's nothing necessarily wrong in that desire) has the potential of steering this new Narnia series into unpleasant territory. Lewis already included playful jabs between the sexes in the books, but it's not unreasonable to assume Gerwig will want to try a more blatant and subversive approach in her adaptations. And that's what concerns me.