It's hard for me to even understand how people unfamiliar with the source materials are even allowed to make film adaptations. It should be a prerequisite to making a film adaptation to be familiar. >:[ I know that's not always the case, but if they don't want to get totally familiarised with the source material they should get "Diehard Clinically Obsessed Narnia Fan #29057" to sit there and give opinions on the production of the movie, lol. I know Gresham participated in the production of these movies and gave feedback and such, but I don't know too much about that. Either he just wasn't staunch enough in his vision, or he doesn't really have a vision for what should be conveyed cinematically, or they just didn't listen to him. I did enjoy the movies, but all the same, they felt too juvenile to me. And I enjoy watching Arthur and The Magic School Bus and Little Bear. So I don't have a problem watching juvenile stuff, it's that I felt the movie was more juvenile than the books, which made it seem less Narnian than I had hoped.

C.S. Lewis said that if he enjoyed a story as a child, but didn't get anything out of it as an adult, it was not worth reading in the first place. Lewis had a different idea of what a "children's story" was than most people do today.

The Narnia books speak to me on a very adult level, and I think they are underrated because it never occurs to most people to look at them deeper.

Naturally, I agree with this. It's the point I tried to drive at when I started this thread. The books are enjoyable for children and (unless you are very easily offended) appropriate for children. But there is so much more THERE than just a children's story. Anyone who has seen me post knows I am atheist, and I don't even care for the religious themes outside of discussion purposes. But I ironically refer to these books as my Bible, and the single-volume collection I have looks enough like one. It's not just that these books appeal to adults as well as children, they can appeal to anyone, given an open-minded perspective. There are so many things in the Narnia books that appeal to us as sentient beings with emotions, hopes, and fears, regardless of age or religion. You don't have to agree with every last belief Lewis had to enjoy his writing or watch his writing come to life on-screen.

Seems to me like the film-makers just go "Ah yes, the classic beloved CHILDREN'S series, the Chronicles of Narnia", and proceed to try and make it fit into their perception of what is "kid-friendly". That's why it will never work, because the Narnia books may be kid-friendly, but not in the way Nickelodeon is, and that's what people want nowadays. That's why they put abridged and revised versions of children's classics on the shelves, because apparently kids can't handle a little realism. And that's presumably why Disney can't seem to accomplish a decent film up to the standards of The Lion King or Aladdin, they've stripped their new stuff of all its realism.

Narnia doesn't expose kids to gratuitous violence or sex or other "mature" notions, but it does expose them to conflict and thoughtfulness...the characters don't crack a stupid joke every three seconds, the humour is subtle. The conflicts are more grave than "I totally have a crush on my BFF's BF!" And maybe that's why Harry Potter is so successful as a film, it's a lot of overt stuff, you don't have to dig deep to appreciate what's going on. I had friends when I was a child who would not touch Narnia because it was "old", and probably because things weren't spelt out for you. This has been said many times by many people, but the character development and the atmosphere are conveyed in bite-sized pieces that you expand upon by stringing them together and using your imagination.

Narnia is underrated, I think, for the same reason other classics in children's literature are underrated, people just can't seem to handle them in our modern era of iPhones and 3D movies. I'm a total futurist, but a lot of kids are probably so over-stimulated that Narnia seems bland and tedious.

I found your post really interesting, PhelanVelvel. I agreed with many parts of it - one notable point being how you said that you don't care if it takes 10 minutes for Glimfeather to come and get Jill; what's important is that all of Jill responses are communicated in a way that makes us feel them too.

To be honest, I do understand why the market in mind is children. Narnia is (unfortunately, fortunately?) marked as "Children's Literature," but as C.S. Lewis said, if there's a children's book worth reading when we grow up, then it's a good book. And the Narnia books paint childhood and growing up in a bittersweet, beautiful way. They're a breath of fresh air in comparison to popular definitions of childhood and a adulthood.
Narnia is meaningful to people of all ages; that's its charm. However, some people seem to think that because the book says "8+" on it, it's only for that age group, and so everything must be done in a stereotypical way.

This standard is rather subjective, though. Compare the Peter sword scene (and why it was the way it was) in LWW vs. the White Witch summoning scene in PC. The latter was far more uncomfortable than a bit of realisticness in the Peter sword scene would have been. (meaning: You don't have to make the sword gory. You could just have not given us a close-up of the sword.)

But this "marketed only for kids" idea is not centralized on mature themes. A lot of the problem is with the story's flow and with the dialogue chosen. They seem to be trite and obvious. I don't even think young kids would be entertained by them.

I think that VDT was, in some aspects, exemplary of one extreme to the other. Some parts of it were really obvious, and yet it seems like they threw in the "frightening" sea serpent scene in order to "give something to the big kids."

And so, my biggest concern is that the idea won't be "Let's throw in more violence and modern romance in order to make it more appealing to older audiences!"

What I want is an intellectually satisfying plot that is a powerful adaptation of the book. I don't really feel like merely "carrying the spirit of the book" is enough. The adaptation doesn't have to be word-for-word, but it should be the meaningful and impacting story from the book, not watered down and not overdone.

Starkat also mentioned the gimmicky feel of VDT: the green mist, Lilliandil, a couple parts of the Dufflepuds scene (I think glumPuddle mentioned how it looked like a cross between Harry Potter and Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland), the sea serpent, the seven swords, Rhindon. The overwhelming CGI-feel makes it feel like some typical fantasy flick. Like starkat said, I hope that, if we see any more movies in the uknown future, they take the CGI back to the blending-in of LWW.

I definitely think it is a mistake to make the Narnia movies more shallow than the books because of the excuse that children wouldn't enjoy them otherwise. I first read the Chronicles of Narnia when I was eight and saw the BBC LWW first when I was five or six and enjoyed them both. Of course, after I grew older I wound up noticing little things that make the books more meaningful, but I can say that I understood everything necessary to enjoy the storyline when I was eight.

That said, I did enjoy The Voyage of the Dawn Treader because it fits into the type of movies I enjoy anyway, though they really made everything so much more shallow than the book (and that's not really good when you're trying to sail across an ocean).

But it wasn't as good as the book, and because their undragoning scene was changed so much and even the BBC didn't do it as well as I'd hoped, I wound up drawing my own comic-rendition.

One thing that would help this conversation is a clarification of terms:

Family Media: media meant to be shared and enjoyed by all members of the family with the exception of hipster teens . Books that parents can enjoy while reading to their equally enthralled children. Movies that appeal to the child in everyone. The Pixar movies are a good example of family media.

Kiddie Media: Media meant to distract young children only. Not suitable for adults. The Barbie movies are a good example of kiddie movies. My parents didn't allow me to watch kiddie movies when I was little because they were afraid it would kill my brain cells.

Mature Media: Media intended to interest adults only. It is important to note that mature media are not necessarily any more intelligent than family media. The difference is in the content and characters. Mature media dwells on motivations and experiences that your typical young child can not relate to. Mature media can sometimes have elements of sex and violence that many parents would not want their children to see , but that is not a necessary element. The mini-series Sense and Sensibility is just as good an example of mature media. You might watch it with an 8-year-old in the room, but you would not expect them to understand or attend to it.

Teen Media: These movies perfect the art of instant gratification. Although there are exceptions to the rule, teen media tend to be less intelligent than family media. Many adults still enjoy them as a guilty pleasure. Like mature media, teen movies often have elements that young children can not relate to.

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The Narnia books are family media. I strenuously disagree with Glumpuddle's idea that the film makers should start out with the adult audiences in mind. Lewis intended the Narnia books as a way of introducing modern children to the tradition of imaginative story telling. If a young child can not relate to a movie, it is not a Narnia movie. The problem with the Walden Narnia series is that LWW was the only family film in the bunch.

If you think that PC was intended for 8-year-olds, you don't know 8-year-olds. PC was Walden's completely misguided foray into teen media. I remember when it came out, some reviewers were warning parents not to take children under 12 or 13. Some people mentioned seeing families with young children walk out in the middle. Walden took the family market for granted in an attempt to seduce the lucrative teen market, and ended up alienating much of their fan base. Because of Narnia's family-friendly reputation, teens will never flock in droves to a Narnia movie.

VDT was a kiddie film. Enough said.