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[Closed] Special Prolonged Feature: LOST – "The End"

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Warrior 4 Jesus
(@warrior-4-jesus)
NarniaWeb Fanatic

How do you all do the spoiler boxes without them becoming a solid area of black? It looks better with the spacing between the above and below sentences. Oh man, I totally missed the Jacob's Ladder reference. Very sly.

Currently watching:
Doctor Who - Season 11

Posted : February 25, 2010 12:01 pm
stargazer
(@stargazer)
Member Moderator

Warrior, try using [*spoiler]text[*/spoiler] rather than [*spoiler=]text[*/spoiler]

And on topic, Shadowlander,

Spoiler
my thoughts on the lighthouse were similar to yours. I just thought it was a cool structure, reflecting that ancient architecture.

Regarding candidates,

Spoiler
requiring them to be males would explain the absence of Kate's name in the cave - though she's named in the Lighthouse. (Jacob did make a point of touching a very young Kate back in the season 5 finale flashback). And 'Rousseau' (perhaps Danielle or Alex) appears in both lists.

Regarding the Numbers and their connections to the candidates, Warrior,

Spoiler
42 was indeed selected as an homage to the Hitchhiker's Guide series, according to a Lostpedia interview with season 1 writer David Fury (which also included a reference to Damon Lindeloff liking that connection).

And while Locke is dead and has been scratched off the list, that same interview provides a possible clue as to why his number is 4: it was chosen to be in the Numbers because it's the number of years Locke was in a wheelchair. So I suspect that the candidates have been assigned numbers with an intentional scheme in mind.

Incidentally, it appears the number 23 is associated with various conspiracy and secret society groups. I'm not sure if that's why it's among the Numbers or why it's associated with Shephard, however.

But all night, Aslan and the Moon gazed upon each other with joyful and unblinking eyes.

Topic starter Posted : February 25, 2010 2:12 pm
Warrior 4 Jesus
(@warrior-4-jesus)
NarniaWeb Fanatic

Stargazer, thanks for the help.

In regards to the candidates, that's really interesting.

Spoiler
I've also heard that Locke's number - '4' refers to something else. Apparently the Japanese equate the number '4' with death!

Currently watching:
Doctor Who - Season 11

Posted : February 25, 2010 2:50 pm
Rising_Star
(@rising_star)
NarniaWeb Guru

Stargazer,

Spoiler
My dad made the connection with the number 23 and Jack Shepherd. He says it might be connected to Psalm 23 and "The Lord is my shepherd[/b . . ." ;) He believes Jack is the prime candidate and is supposed to shepherd the others (not The Others ;) :P ) in some way.

P.S."Brooklyn!"

BeautyLikeNight's Graphics
My book: The Blind Traveler

Posted : February 25, 2010 5:28 pm
Warrior 4 Jesus
(@warrior-4-jesus)
NarniaWeb Fanatic

Several days ago I read a great theory on one of the LOST fan sites. This theory was about how 6 had been an important number in the show (Oceanic 6),

Spoiler
also the 6 numbers, each correlating to one of our beloved Losties.
The person theorised that perhaps 7
Spoiler
people were needed to bring about change to the Island (Jacob touched 7 people in eps. 5.16-17: The Incident). 7 is also the number symbolising holiness and completeness.
Has anyone seen a theory like this? If so, would you be able to redirect me to it? I misplaced it. Thanks

Another Numbers Theory:

Spoiler
Some have proposed the theory that the numbers assigned to the Losties relate to their order of suitability as candidates.

Let's examine this further:

4 - John Locke. It's easy to see that he was probably one of the first candidates considered. He became a man of faith and he seemed to be in tune with the Island. The Island was his purpose for living. If you will, it was his 'destiny'.

8 - Hugo Reyes (Hurley). He's the moral compass for the Losties. He's generally selfless and looking to help out people. That alone makes him a good choice. Also, after the Oceanic 6 are rescued, his bad luck resumes off the Island and he decides the best thing to do, is return. Now that we see him growing into his own, becoming something of a leader, the choice makes even more sense.

15 - James Ford (Sawyer). He's an independent thinker. He knows what he wants. He's had a change of heart and developed into a powerful leader as LeFleur, Head of Dharma Security. Since Juliet's death he seems lost (ba doom!) but I've no doubt that people would follow him, if he gave them a reason.

16 - Sayid Jarrah. I really don't know. He definitely has developed as a character and has been quite a leader but his dying and being claimed by something, has disrupted the plan somewhat. I think the MIB will soon learn of Sayid's death and strike his name off in the cave. But who knows? Maybe he could be the wild-card in the pack? From damnation to redemption? Anything is possible.

23 - Jack Shephard. I'm not sure why Jack is so far down the list. He displays the qualities of a great leader but maybe Jacob doesn't dig tortured souls? :p Jack is less tortured now, so maybe he has a very good chance of being the prime candidate.

42 - Jin, Sun or Ji-Yeon Kwon. The answer to everything. Suffering, love and redemption. All three - a Trinity of sorts? Okay, that's a bit much. The Kwon's are now more responsible people and growing into their own but candidate material? I don't see it.

Currently watching:
Doctor Who - Season 11

Posted : February 25, 2010 6:30 pm
stargazer
(@stargazer)
Member Moderator

That's a fun observation, Ryan, especially since there's

Spoiler
been an episode called "The 23rd Psalm" - though its centric character was Mr Eko. And that would tie in Jack's last name nicely (especially since so many character names have significance).

Sorry, Warrior, I haven't seen that theory, but it's an interesting idea.

I think the writers intentionally reminded us of

Spoiler
Adam and Eve in the cave. It's been a while since we've seen them, and the mystery of their origin hasn't been revealed yet. But I think this one may be coming soon.

And I like the way Hurley ties in his time travel experiences: he speculates that Adam and Eve could be themselves, moved back in time; in "LA X" he mentioned he'd traveled through time with the guitar case.

Numbers and candidates:

Spoiler
I've read elsewhere that Jack is the main (non-child) character most likely to survive to the end of the series. In that case, he's probably the leading candidate.

And I agree with you, Warrior, regarding the Kwon family as candidates - though Jin especially has grown so much as a character.

Perhaps their placement in the list is by suitability, but with the tie-in of 4 to Locke, and the possibility of 23 tied to 'the Shephard' I'm leaning toward a non-linear connection.

And lastly,

Spoiler
I think Aaron still has a part to play in this. We haven't seen him yet on the island this season, unless he's that mysterious boy who's appeared a couple of times.

But all night, Aslan and the Moon gazed upon each other with joyful and unblinking eyes.

Topic starter Posted : February 26, 2010 4:52 am
Valiant_Lucy
(@valiant_lucy)
Member Moderator Emeritus

re: Adam and Eve:

Spoiler
I am clinging to the idea that it's Rose and Bernard. I think that's be kind of awesome!

Spoiler
I read somewhere that they would *never* kill Jack off (unfortunatly!! argh). And I'm 90% sure they also won't kill of either Kate or Sawyer...not a 100% sure on those two though.

"Imperfection is beauty, madness is genius, and it's better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring." Marilyn Monroe

Posted : February 26, 2010 5:14 am
Warrior 4 Jesus
(@warrior-4-jesus)
NarniaWeb Fanatic

Stargazer, thank anyway. Interesting thoughts. It's difficult to navigate the spoilers without caving into temptation and clicking those related to the episode ahead (that we haven't had yet). But I've managed.

Another possible theory concerning the Numbers

Spoiler
is that they are just numbers assigned to the possible candidates but the 6 people (candidates?) are needed to protect the Island. Jacob had 7 people on his tapestry in The Incident. Obviously 7 is a number that symbolises completeness. So it's likely there will be others added to the list - since Locke is dead, Sawyer is possibly 'lost' and there needs to be an additional candidate - Aaron? What if we've seen the Numbers sprinkled throughout the Losties' lives because Jacob has been inserting them into their timeline to get them thinking (he's likely travelled through time, over and over, trying to find a way to prove the MIB wrong). In the promo for the upcoming episode there's a lighthouse. I'm guessing the lighthouse is actually Jacob's dwelling and the cave, the MIB's. Maybe Jacob has his own list of candidates. Then if Jack, Hurley and the others find the numbers on the lighthouse, or something, they will recognise them as important and maybe deduce that they need to band together to create a mini-army of Jacob's candidates. Maybe Hurley will even be the most important person in the equation because he's been 'cursed' by the Numbers and knows them all by heart. Maybe the numbers assigned to candidates, that may or may not be in the lighthouse, will trigger his memory and what he thought was a curse, will actually be a blessing. It's a lot of speculation on my part.

Looking forward to: ep.6.05: Lighthouse

Currently watching:
Doctor Who - Season 11

Posted : February 26, 2010 12:05 pm
Bookwyrm
(@bookwyrm)
NarniaWeb Guru

Finally started watching season 6:

Smokey:

Spoiler
Interesting theories about the three different smoke monsters, W4J. I thought it was interesting that the UnLocke Smokey killed Bram and his men, when the Smokey that attacked the freighter passengers left them alive. I'm trying to remember if the Smokey that judged Ben and transformed into Alex was grey or black, since it did tell Ben to obey Locke.

The Island:

Spoiler
I think the fact that the Island is sunken in the alternate universe rather than blown up actually makes a lot of sense. Because the Island can teleport, it clearly cannot be a normal island attached to the ocean floor. So maybe it was the electromagnetic energy that kept the Island from sinking. So the bomb destroys the EM core, the Island sinks. Adds weight to the idea that the Island is Atlantis or connected to it. Maybe this is Island 2.0 and Atlantis was the original and was sunken.

Updated and Possibly Ridiculous Theory of Everything:

Spoiler
Looking around the internet, I've noticed a lot of people seem to think that Richard, the Nemesis, and Jacob are Egyptian deities. I had been inclined to believe that they might be deities of some sort, but I'm beginning to think the Egyptian stuff is just a red herring. Most likely the original inhabitants were Egyptian and they attempted to shoehorn Jacob and the Nemeis into their mythology.

UnLocke's comment about wanting to go home is what started me thinking about something completely different. What if they're all aliens? There's an episode of Star Trek: Enterprise in which a highly evolved race of aliens known as the Organians test space-faring races to see if they're worthy of first contact. Maybe Jacob and the Nemesis are on Earth to observe humanity. Every so often they cause a shipwreck or plane crash or something so that they can experiment with the survivors. Over the millenia, the Nemesis has grown cynical and decided that humans aren't worth bothering with, but can't leave because Jacob refuses to call of the experiment. I think Richard is most likely just a human, only given an extended lifespan by Jacob. The reason why Jacob needed bodyguards when he already had the Others is that the Others are probably just another experiment or a variable within the experiment they're performing on the survivors and Jacob prefers not to interact with them. Richard exists to make sure the Others stay under Jacob's thumb. Despite the fact Jacob seems to be a bigger fan of humans than UnLocke, I still don't think he's really a good guy. He might be benevolent, but not necessarily good. He's engaged in some pretty manipulative behavior and his actions, such as creating the Others, has led to a lot of deaths.

Posted : February 26, 2010 6:12 pm
Warrior 4 Jesus
(@warrior-4-jesus)
NarniaWeb Fanatic

Booky, it's great to see you back!
Yes, I think you're onto something with Smokey, and the Island. Richard was granted immortality by Jacob (somehow), so it's likely that he was a normal human blessed by Jacob. As for Jacob and the MIB I think you might be right there too. Personally, I don't want them to be aliens but I'm fine with them being time-travellers or deities or demi-gods or something equivalent. It's not that I don't do sci-fi, that's not why I don't do aliens. I love sci-fi and I'm fine with aliens but I don't think they'd suit the elaborate science-fiction/fantasy mythology of the show. Maybe I've just been scared off by the ending of Indiana Jones: Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

Currently watching:
Doctor Who - Season 11

Posted : February 26, 2010 6:43 pm
7chronicles
(@7chronicles)
NarniaWeb Guru

If anyone is interested, on ABC's Lost homepage there is a contest to make your own Lost promo, here is the description:

Be part of LOST history by creating a 35-second LOST finale promo for the series to get a shot at having your work shown on TV! You could win a trip to a LOST party and have your finale promo shown on air during LOST: THE FINAL SEASON. You don't have to be a video pro to enter -- you can use our mash-up tools or you can use your own personal editing software.

Here's the link :)
http://abc.go.com/shows/lost/fan-promo-contest

The Value of myth is that it takes all the things you know and restores to them the rich significance which has been hidden by the veil of familiarity. C.S. Lewis

Posted : March 1, 2010 9:29 pm
stargazer
(@stargazer)
Member Moderator

Thanks for the heads-up, 7chronicles! There was also a promotional spot during tonight's encore 'enhanced' broadcast of "Lighthouse."

Crazy episode tonight ("Sundown"). The connections between characters in the

Spoiler
flash-sideways - often different from those we're used to from earlier seasons on the island - keep getting more tangled. ;))

It's interesting to see people we're used to knowing each other being complete strangers, such as Keamy and Sayid, or Jack and Sayid (there was a glimpse of Jack in the hospital), or Sayid and Jin (who doesn't speak English in the alternate reality).

On the island,

Spoiler
Dogen explains the significance of his baseball - it's related to his son, who apparently isn't alive in this reality (but is in the alternate one; he appeared at the end of "Lighthouse") - and his son's life is also tangled up in Dogen's decision to serve Jacob on the island.

Kate tells Claire she took Aaron. I wonder if she mentioned (off-camera) that he's with Claire's mother now...

Sayid's descent to the Dark Side accelerates as he kills both Dogen and Lennon. And apparently Dogen - not the ash circles - seems to be what keeps the Smoke Monster out of the Temple.

I wasn't sure at first if the call to survive by leaving the Temple was a bluff or not.

Flocke/MIB was a wee bit creepy at the episode's end. I did catch a glimpse of Zach and Emma as Temple survivors.

In the

Spoiler
alternate reality, Nadia is married to Sayid's brother, and I was quite surprised to find Keamy as the loan shark he'd borrowed money from. Not sure what the connection between Keamy and Jin is - perhaps Mr Paik ordered the hit on Jin after the money was confiscated at the airport. Or maybe Jin just was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

And should Martin Keamy host a cooking show? ;)

But all night, Aslan and the Moon gazed upon each other with joyful and unblinking eyes.

Topic starter Posted : March 2, 2010 4:10 pm
7chronicles
(@7chronicles)
NarniaWeb Guru

Wow! great, great episode, they just keep getting better and better. I was really

Spoiler
sad that Dogen died :-o :(( , I actually really liked his character and we were only just getting to really know him! I'm sad about Sayid to. :(( I can't wait for the next episode, since Jack/Ben are my two favorite characters :) ! It was one of the higher rated ones for this season along with episode nine the Richard episode! :D

The Value of myth is that it takes all the things you know and restores to them the rich significance which has been hidden by the veil of familiarity. C.S. Lewis

Posted : March 2, 2010 4:28 pm
Claire-ayes
(@claire-ayes)
NarniaWeb Regular

Ooohh-eeerrr!! :-o

So - Island reality stuff first methinks.

Spoiler
Sayid has gone to the dark side! Or is it the dark side? I really can't decide if Jacob is good or not, especially after poor Dogen's story was revealed. :( I was shocked that they killed him off, he was pretty awesome (especially after that crazy fight scene). Kate's gone with them as well - looks kinda to be shaping up a little bit like the 'last supper' photo I feel.

Yeay! Lapidus & Ben & Co turned up to save the day - I was very worried Miles was going to die for a minute. We haven't seen Sawyer for a while - and what is going to happen to Jin!

All in all the wipe out of the others was insane and I loved it as an ending/climax to an amazing episode.

So . . . the alternate reality

Spoiler
I didn't really see the logic to Keemy turning up - but I thought it was a nice cameo. Again - what is going to happen to Jin! :-s I thought it was really bittersweet, reminding us of how nice Sayid could be and then making him all "evil" on-island.

You've done it again show . . . you carry on delivering an hour of awesomeness every week. Keep it up.

Posted : March 3, 2010 6:18 am
Warrior 4 Jesus
(@warrior-4-jesus)
NarniaWeb Fanatic

My thoughts on ep.6.05 - Lighthouse:

Great episode, some very good reveals. All in all, the story is moving slowly but it is moving.

Spoiler
In the LA X timeline, photos in Jack's house seem to show that he and his father, Christian, have a healthier father-son relationship than in the Island timeline. Jack checks himself in the mirror. He has some scars. Appendix removal or wounds from time spent on the Island?
Wow! Jack has a son called David. Very subtle. King David from the Bible, wrote several books including Psalms. The 23rd verse is '... the Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want'. A tie with Jack Shephard? Likely. But the episode entitled 'The 23rd Psalm' was Eko-centric. Hmm... What does this mean?

In the Island timeline, at the Temple, Miles and Hurley pass time playing Tic-Tac-Toe. I love these guys. They're not just the comic relief, they're the Everyman (particularly Hurley). Migrating from Rick to Tic-Tac-Toe? Funny stuff. Anyone else think they'll downgrade to Knuckle bones next?
Hurley wanders into the Temple to look for food. He sees Jacob by the ex-healing pool. This is weird. So we can now put the theory some had, out of our mind that Jacob had claimed Sayid and was barred from the Temple. Jacob tells Hurley to write some directions on paper. Hurley uses his arm. I loved the Indiana Jones and Star Wars references. He really is the king of pop-culture fandom.

LA X - David doesn't have a good relationship with his father, estranged from him. This continues the theme of Daddy issues amongst the Losties, particularly Jack. David owns an Annotated version of Alice's adventures. Subtle.

Island - Claire is definitely the new Rousseau. She's spent the last three years in the jungle with a 'friend', making temporary homes so she's not found by the Temple Others.
Jacob appears to Hurley again, alongside the inner Temple walls. I'm starting to distrust Jacob. He seems rather manipulative. I love Hurley's plan to 'con' Jack into following him. He tells him about a secret exit to the jungle and that Jacob told him to tell Jack he 'had what it takes' the exact opposite of his father's remark back in Season 1.
We finally see Claire again! She currently lives in a stick-thatched, plane-scrap metal hut. She has a variety of basic medical supplies and some dynamite from the Black Rock ship. She also has a creepy looking boar-skull 'child' in a cot, in place of Aaron. Her isolation must have sent her over the edge! She's aware of the infection. The 'new' Claire is definitely more than a little bonkers. I'm enjoying this version of her. She must have learnt basic medical training while in the jungle, or maybe her pseudo-doctor skills are just part of what runs in her family - brother, Jack and step-father, Christian. Claire tells Jin that her 'friend' told her the Others took Aaron.
Hurley is particularly perceptive about Jack and Kate's relationship. Jack and Hurley find Shannon's asthma inhaler by the caves from Season 1. Shannon's inhaler was missing at a time she was having major trouble breathing. Very interesting. Of course the caves still house the corpses of 'Adam' and 'Eve'. Hurley speculates that the corpses maybe them from a future time-travel experience. This is unlikely as the shout-out to fans suggests otherwise. I'm loving that the writers are tying some things back to the first season. Jack talks to Hurley about Christian's coffin being lost and finding it near the caves, but with no body inside. It's good to see the Losties are finally opening up about themselves to each other. It took long enough!

LA X - Jack looks for his son David and can't find him. He drives over to his ex-wife's house to look for him there. No-one is home, so he uses a key beneath a white rabbit ceramic statue (Alice in Wonderland!) to get inside.

Island - Jack and Hurley come to a lighthouse by the shore. It looks like a very old design, perhaps Ancient Greek or Egyptian or Mesopotamian?
Claire tell Jin that the Temple Others captured her a long time ago and tortured her. She escaped. Jin tells her they did something similar to Sayid and that the Others were just testing them. Claire thinks the Temple Others have Aaron. Jin tells her that Kate took Aaron from the Island. Claire axes the Other prisoner with Jin. Intense!

LA X - Jack finds out David has a music audition, he attends it. In the foyer there is a poster - 'Welcome all candidates'. I know what it means but could it possibly be a sly wink at the audience - Jack is a candidate?
Dogen! Never expected to find him in a modern timeline. Jack watches his son's performance on the piano. He's ridiculously good. Remember how Jack plays a piano in the Others village, on the Island? Maybe there's a link here.

Island - Hurley and Jack reach the top of the lighthouse. It open out into an area with a frame of angled mirrors and beneath that, a huge cog-like dial with an arrow and candidate names on it. The dial has 360 degrees, it looks nautical in design. Old. Perhaps from the 18th century? Black Rock ship technology anyone? The original lighthouse is likely a much earlier design and the dial and cog-system was probably added later. Hurley reads instructions from his arm and pulls on a chain that rotates the dial. He asks Jack to tell him when the arrow hits 108 degrees - the 108th candidate - Wallace? But who has the surname 'Wallace'? As the dial is moving through the degrees, the mirror flashes quick images from the Losties pasts. We see an Asian temple that looks like the location of Sun and Jin's wedding, we see a funeral home that looks like the one Jack went to pay his respects to a dead John Locke. Jack is confused by this occurrence. It pushes his rational way of thinking. This scene is similar to one in the Narnia Chronicles - Lucy finding her way into Narnia through a wardrobe (LWW) and Eustace and Jill finding their way via a door in the wall near their school (VDT). But the most similar scenes I can think of are those in the Lord of the Rings where the hobbits peers into Galadriel's mirror and see familiar events. Also, where Lucy eavesdrops on her peers in the Magician's Book in VDT. They are like mirrors into their world.
Jack sees his name at 23 degrees and stops Hurley. Jack tugs at the chain at sets the dial at his name. The mirror shows an image of his house where he grew up. Jack demands answers, he wants to see Jacob, now! Hurley says it doesn't work like that and that Jacob will come when he's ready. Furious, Jack shatters the mirrors, betraying all hope for them to find answers. They descend the stairs and Hurley sees Jacob again. He isn't fazed by Jack's reaction and that he smashed the mirrors. In fact, it almost seems like he inadvertently wanted it and tricked Hurley into 'helping' Jack do his dirty work. I'm enjoying Jacob as a character but he seems to be showing his true colours more and more of late. Is it possible the cave with the candidate's names was actually Jacob's dwelling, as we first believed but then disbelieved, and that the lighthouse is the MIB's dwelling, rather than the other way around? I think they're trying to sabotage each other's operations.
Jacob suggests that the people coming to the Island, who were to be guided by the lighthouse, will have to find another way to get there. Who is coming to the Island? Walt? Aaron? Desmond? It could be any of these or none of them. Someone we haven't met yet?

LA X - Jack and David resolve some of their Daddy issues, after the music audition.

Island - Jack needs quiet time to think. Jacob warns Hurley that someone is coming to the Temple and that they will kill anyone they find there. Hurley is obviously worried for his friends. It doesn't take a genius to work out that Jacob is talking about Smokey/the MIB/'Locke'.
Jin changes his story with Claire. He tells her that Aarron is at the Temple and that he will help her to recover him. I think Jin just wants to survive, especially after Claire mentions something about killing Kate if she really had taken Aaron. Ouchies!
Claire's 'friend' appears in her temporary hut. He is Smokey/the MIB/'Locke' and Claire knows it. It seems the MIB is recruiting his infected friends and claiming them to joins his army.

Currently watching:
Doctor Who - Season 11

Posted : March 3, 2010 11:58 pm
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