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[Closed] Howl's Moving Castle ~ A SF In Several Places At Once

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Ithilwen
(@ithilwen)
NarniaWeb Zealot

Diana Wynne Jones'

“Tell me about this Wizard Howl of yours."
Sophie's teeth chattered but she said proudly, "He's the best wizard in Ingary or anywhere else… And he's sly and selfish and vain as a peacock and cowardly, and you can't pin him down to anything."
"Indeed?" asked Abdullah. "Strange that you should speak so proudly such a list of vices, most loving of ladies."
"What do you mean, vices?" Sophie asked angrily. "I was just describing Howl…"

Welcome to the SF dedicated to discussion of Howl’s Moving Castle, a YA Fantasy trilogy of books written by Diana Wynne Jones. The trilogy consists of the award winning Howl’s Moving Castle, published in 1986, and is followed by two sequels, Castle in the Air (1990), and House of Many Ways (2008). The books are known for their humor and magic, some surprising plot twists, and for their endearingly imperfect characters - particularly the Wizard Howl, whose wild popularity with some readers came as a surprise even to the author. A film adaptation of the first book was made by Studio Ghibli in 2004, which may also be discussed here.

Since many of you have not read all the books, and some of you are still in the process of your first read through Book One, please place all spoilers in spoiler boxes. We want all people, in all stages of progress in the books, to be able to enjoy and participate in the SF. Also, please remember that all forum rules apply in the discussion. :)

Below are some questions to get the discussion started.


- How many of the books have you read?

- What was your opinion of each of the books, and which one was your favorite?

- Favorite character(s)?

- Favorite moment(s)?

- Favorite quote(s)?

- It’s said that imperfections make for a better character, since perfect characters are both uninteresting and unrelated. On the other hand, too many flaws can also make a character unlikable. What would you say it is in the case of the very flawed character of Howl? What do you think of him as a literary character? How much would your opinion change of him if he was a real person, rather than a fictional one?

- Howl seems to see his faults, such as his cowardice and dishonesty, as a point of pride. But do you think he paints an accurate picture of himself? Is Howl as bad, not as bad, or even worse than he claims to be? Why?

- What was your opinion of Sophie? How much does her character change after the spell is placed? Would you say she was better off before or after the spell?

- Do you believe what Sophie says about being “the eldest of three” is true?

- What is your opinion of the relationship between Howl and Sophie, and their treatment of each other? In their disputes, do you find yourself siding one with one over another?

- What is your opinion of Calcifer? Sophie often describes him as an “evil demon” and someone who should not be trusted. But Calcifer insists that he doesn’t think he’s evil. What do you think? Is he evil?

- What did you think of Howl’s apprentice, Michael? Do you think he makes a good apprentice?

- There are many accidents and chaotic goings-on in the moving castle - sometimes due directly to Sophie, sometimes because of one of Michael’s spells gone wrong, sometimes due to other factors. Yet Howl seems to believe all of them come from “the one woman force of chaos” Sophie. Do you think this is fair? Do all these events somehow stem from Sophie?

- In the sequels to Howl’s Moving Castle, Diana Wynne Jones chose to tell the stories from the perspective of new protagonists, and instead had Howl and Sophie and our other familiar friends working in the background or as supporting characters. What did you think of this choice?

- What was your opinion of the new characters such as Abdullah, Charmain, Peter, Waif, Jamal, Rollo, and the rest?

- The first of the sequels, Castle in the Air, seems at first to be an entirely new story with no relation to Howl’s Moving Castle. But a few later surprises prove otherwise. What did you think of some of the book’s plot twists? Did you guess any of the surprises ahead of time? (Use spoiler boxes if necessary.)

- In the first two books, we are shown Diana Wynne Jones’ creation of the moving castle, with its ability to be in several different locations at once. But in House of Many Ways, we are introduced to a brand new house, one which can bend space and time. What did you think of the author’s two different houses? Which did you like more?

- Do you think there is anything in the books from which we can learn something, or is it pure entertainment? Any morals or lessons, or overall themes? If so, what are they?

- Are there any elements in the books that took more than just a single read for you to notice?

- Have you seen Studio Ghibli’s adaptation of Howl’s Moving Castle? Did you prefer the book or the movie?

- How would you rate the movie as an adaptation? As a stand-alone film?

- What are your favorite scenes, parts, characters, etc. from the movie?

- Is there anything in the movie that was different from the book, that you ended up liking even more than the original?

You may answer all of the questions if you like, just some of them, or answer some now and the rest in a later post. Please feel free to ask some questions of your own, and respond to the answers of others. After all, the whole purpose of the questions is not just to answer them, but to spark an ongoing discussion. ;) And above all, remember to have fun. :)

~Riella =:)

Topic starter Posted : August 26, 2012 9:16 am
Lady Haleth
(@lady-haleth)
NarniaWeb Junkie

I've read Howl's Moving Castle and Castle in the Air.

Favorite characters: This is hard, but here I go, Lettie, Martha, Michael, Sophie, Abdullah, Prince Justin, Princess Valeria, Flower-in-the-Night, and of course, Howl himself. I kind of like Calcifer, too.

Spoiler
The incident with the green slime. Any time Howl and Sophie argue. When Howl fight the Witch and rescues Sophie, while Fanny and the others are cleaning his house! At the end, when Howl turns out not to be dead. Sophie meeting the king. Howl going to see his sister in Wales, and later when he goes back to protect her family. When Abdullah meets Flower-in-the-Night and goes around collecting pictures of men to show her. When Abdullah shows up in Ingary and starts talking gallantly to the innkeeper's wife. Prince-Justin-in-disguise and his liking for the cats. When Sophie, Morgan, Howl and Calcifer become themselves again. When Princess Beatrice stops Valeria's tantrum, and when their plan to escape involves her throwing another one!

. . . it is quite a risk to spank a wizard for getting hysterical about his hair

I think we ought to live happily ever after. . . It should be hair-raising

I think Howl definitely falls in the 'lovable rogue' category for me. I ended up actually liking him, mainly because he makes me laugh. As a literary character, I think he works--you can see that he does actually care about other people besides himself, even though he tries to hide it. That's another thing I like about him. In real life, however, he'd probably annoy me. My edition of the book has an interview with Diana Wynne Jones in it, and she said she didn't understand why most of Howl's female fans wanted to marry him. She said she wouldn't, partly because she'd actually want to get into the bathroom sometimes. :p

I don't think Howl is nearly as bad as he claims to be. He let all those rumors get around about him being terribly wicked so that people will leave him alone, but he's not really as bad as they say. Yes, he is tricky and vain, but he doesn't eat hearts or anything like that. And when he rescues Sophie or his little niece, I could see that he did care about some people.

I think Sophie's main problem in the beginning of the story was her lack of confidence. She thinks she's automatically going to fail, so she doesn't even try. She's less self-conscious as an old lady, and I think that helps her. I think she's better off having more confidence and doing magic than she was hiding in a hat shop like a mouse.

It's not necessarily true even in Ingary, which runs on fairy tale logic. Sophie doesn't fail (though then again, neither do her sisters.) I think it is true that the firstborn generally has the highest expectations placed on them, though, which can lead to them falling harder if they don't measure up.

Howl and Sophie certainly do argue a lot. Its part of what makes the book so funny. Most of the time, I tend to side with Sophie, though. All the same, I'd probably describe them with a phrase I found in Anne of Windy Poplars: "Happier arguing with each other than agreeing with anyone else." I think both of them would be bored without each other to argue with.

I think Calcifer is neutral. He goes along with the heroes because there's something in it for him, and he comes back because he likes being around them. He doesn't seem to be evil to me, but I wouldn't call him good, either.

Yes, I think Michael is very good and tries hard to do well.

I don't think all the problems are Sophie's fault--I think a lot of them are Howl's, and he just doesn't want to admit it because, hey, he's Howl. Admitting when he's wrong is not his strong point. It wasn't really fair of him to say that, though. Of course, a lot of the initial chaos is indirectly caused by Howl, as Sophie wouldn't have to clean so much if he wasn't such a slob. :p

I admit, at first I missed Howl and Sophie, and I wondered when they were going to show up. I think it was an interesting way to do a sequel, and requires a certain amount of patience from the reader to wait so long to find out what happened to the people from the previous book.

I ended up liking Abdullah. He made me laugh, and his romance with Flower-in-the-Night was so sweet. :) I also like Justin-in-disguise (again!) and how Flower-in-the-Night and Abdullah came up with the plan to free the princesses. I liked Beatrice too.

I admit that I had no idea when the connections to the last book were going to show up. I just kept reading to find out. That kind of thing tends to go over my head. Of course, I flipped, so I kind of spoiled myself.

I haven't read House of Many Ways yet, so I can't say.

I think we can learn a few things. People aren't what they seem. Think creatively to get out of bad situations. You are probably more competent than you think you are. Those seemed to be the main themes of the books. I liked the first one's message, because I often feel a lot like Sophie. The messages are secondary, though. It seems like its mostly just entertaining.

I don't think so. I can't remember just now.

I have not seen the movie.

The glory of God is man fully alive--St. Iraneus
Salvation is a fire in the midnight of the soul-Switchfoot

Posted : August 26, 2012 10:25 am
coracle
(@coracle)
NarniaWeb's Auntie Moderator

I'm a serious Diana Wynne Jones fan. I've been reading her books for 20 years (when I first discovered them in the children's section of various libraries), and began buying copies in 2001 when I lived in London. I confess to being the sort of person who checks in bookshops to make sure the books are shelved under J and not W, and moves them if necessary! While educating our local bookshop assistants I discovered another big fan.

As well as a sense of humour which makes her 'fairy tales' a bit off beat and whimsical, I love her ability to have several different things going on at once, or different layers in the story.
It could be said that Howl's castle is a good symbol for DWJ's stories - it isn't what it seems, it is in more than one place at once, and it isn't standing still. It is magic and imagination that make it work.
I like the original book best, but I do enjoy the way that DWJ links the sequels in. The second one reminds me of a delightful book called The Land of Green Ginger, which spoofs some aspects of fairytales, and has some similar characters. The third one shows DWJ's creative genius once again - yet it reminds us of something we have all done, endeavouring to find our way around an unfamiliar house.
I have a copy of the movie, and didn't hate it as much as I expected (don't like Anime) so can find some bits I like.

Who do I like best in book 1? Probably Sophie, who everyone can identify with. Next Howl, a pragmatic and vain, yet kind and generous young man. And I am fond of Calcifer.

Spoiler
I also like the way DWJ links her books to places she knows well, as in this case 'Howl' is actually a Welshman called with good Welsh names - Howell Jenkins - who manages to live in three other locations as well as his sister's home in Wales.

There, shining in the sunrise, larger than they had seen him before, shaking his mane (for it had apparently grown again) stood Aslan himself.
"...when a willing victim who had committed no treachery was killed in a traitor's stead, the Table would crack and Death itself would start working backwards."

Posted : August 26, 2012 11:10 pm
IloveFauns
(@ilovefauns)
NarniaWeb Guru

This is so strange, I hadn't thought about this movie since 2006/7 when we watched it in class and the last week, I have heard about it so many times. I can't actually remember much about the movie but i remember finding it quite scary when she turned old and they were standing in a poppy field.

Posted : August 28, 2012 2:13 am
Ithilwen
(@ithilwen)
NarniaWeb Zealot

How many of the books have you read?

I have read all three in the trilogy. :)

What was your opinion of each of the books, and which one was your favorite?

I'd have to say the first one will always be my favorite. It's such a perfect blend of everything, and handles all of the characters and events and everything so well. The second book is also amazing, though not as amazing as the first. It drags in a few parts, but overall is really entertaining. I think it's better the second time around, though, after you know all the twists and can keep them in mind while reading. ;)) I can't say I really liked the third one. It was almost entirely detail of the house and chores, and the pacing was far too slow. I didn't care for the new characters in it. The old characters weren't in it much at all, and when they were it was... odd. /:) There wasn't really anything in it much that I enjoyed. Although,

Spoiler
I thought it was cute when they revealed Calcifer has a taste for mystery novels. ;))

Favorite character(s)?

Howl. And Calcifer is a close second. Such great characters. :D

Favorite moment(s)?

Oh, goodness. So many. From the first book:

Spoiler
The green slime episode. The oversized suit problem. When Sophie visits the king to blacken Howl's name and ends up getting him the king's favor instead, and almost gets him engaged to the king's daughter. ;))

From the second book:

Spoiler
Anything with the genie. ;)) Also, when Flower-in-the-Night looks at the pictures of all the men and says Abdullah is better than all of them. (Aww. ;;) ;)) )

Favorite quote(s)?

“More about Howl? Sophie thought desperately. I have to blacken his name! Her mind was such a blank that for a second it actually seemed to her that Howl had no faults at all. How stupid! 'Well, he's fickle, careless, selfish, and hysterical,' she said. 'Half the time I think he doesn't care what happens to anyone as long as he's alright--but then I find out how awfully kind he's been to someone. Then I think he's kind just when it suits him--only then I find out he undercharges poor people. I don't know, Your Majesty. He's a mess.”

"I hope your bacon burns."

“My shining dishonesty will be the salvation of me.”

It’s said that imperfections make for a better character, since perfect characters are both uninteresting and unrelated. On the other hand, too many flaws can also make a character unlikable. What would you say it is in the case of the very flawed character of Howl? What do you think of him as a literary character? How much would your opinion change of him if he was a real person, rather than a fictional one? Howl seems to see his faults, such as his cowardice and dishonesty, as a point of pride. But do you think he paints an accurate picture of himself? Is Howl as bad, not as bad, or even worse than he claims to be? Why?

I have heard of people who disliked Howl because of his many flaws, but for me it just made him all the more endearing. It's hard to imagine what I would think of him if he was a real person rather than a character. Especially considering that I think a lot of his faults aren't quite real. And I don't just mean the rumors of him eating hearts and whatnot. The picture he paints of himself - a selfish liar and a coward - is definitely bad, and he does a great job of playing that part. But I think that's what it is - a part he's playing. Just like some people try to act more tough and scary than they really are, or more fearless than they really are, he seems to want to fool people (and maybe even himself) into believing he's more evil and cowardly than he really is and that doesn't care about anyone. When in actuality, he usually does end up being brave and giving and caring when the time comes that it's needed. Which is interesting in itself, since it's the opposite with most people. Most people are selfish and cowardly, but pretend to be nice, good people. It makes me wonder why he wants to be evil. I think if he was a real person I met, my opinion of him would greatly depend on how well he was able to fool me. Of course I'm not going to approve of what I perceive as cowardice or selfishness. But if I saw him with his guard down, being himself, I think I would like him a good deal.

What was your opinion of Sophie? How much does her character change after the spell is placed? Would you say she was better off before or after the spell?

After the spell is placed, Sophie is a lot more free, I think. The shyness goes away and she can say whatever she likes to people because, after all, she's an old woman, so what does it matter? ;)) I think she was a great deal happier after the spell was placed.

Spoiler
Indeed, as it is revealed later, she was keeping the spell up herself, because she didn't want to lose her "disguise".
But I wouldn't say she was better off that way. It let her hide behind the spell too much. Plus, she was starting to have heart problems because of it. I would say instead that the spell was a necessary step. She was an extreme of shyness before the spell; and an extreme of freedom during the spell, and she learned to lose a lot of her inhibitions. Then
Spoiler
when the spell was gone
, there was more of a balance.

Do you believe what Sophie says about being “the eldest of three” is true?

Not really. Ingary does run on a lot of fairy tale rules, but I don't think it followed in this case. I think the "eldest of three" belief was more of a superstition, much the way "good luck" and "bad luck" are in our own world.

What is your opinion of the relationship between Howl and Sophie, and their treatment of each other? In their disputes, do you find yourself siding one with one over another?

Their relationship is pretty stormy, but I adore it. :D Normally, I don't care for fictional love/hate relationships, but this one just really worked.

I side with Sophie on the fact that Howl is frustrating. But I do side with Howl on the matter of Sophie's cleaning. Yes, his house is a mess. Yes, it's disgusting and should be cleaned. But there is also the fact that it is his house, and she is just an uninvited guest.

What is your opinion of Calcifer? Sophie often describes him as an “evil demon” and someone who should not be trusted. But Calcifer insists that he doesn’t think he’s evil. What do you think? Is he evil?

I don't think Calcifer is evil. Snarky, yes. But not evil. I think he's actually very sweet. And I think many of the bad qualities that show in him in Book One are due to the fact that

Spoiler
he's sharing a heart with Howl.

What did you think of Howl’s apprentice, Michael? Do you think he makes a good apprentice?

I liked Michael, but not nearly as much as the others. I think he's a good, though inexperienced apprentice, and somewhat clumsy. But he'll get the hang of it. ;)

There are many accidents and chaotic goings-on in the moving castle - sometimes due directly to Sophie, sometimes because of one of Michael’s spells gone wrong, sometimes due to other factors. Yet Howl seems to believe all of them come from “the one woman force of chaos” Sophie. Do you think this is fair? Do all these events somehow stem from Sophie?

I think it's fair part of the time. For example,

Spoiler
with the suit incident, Michael was the one who enlarged the suit, but he wouldn't have had to put the spell on it if Sophie hadn't messed with the suit in the first place.
But I think there are also things that are genuinely Michael's fault, and Sophie shouldn't be blamed for those.

In the sequels to Howl’s Moving Castle, Diana Wynne Jones chose to tell the stories from the perspective of new protagonists, and instead had Howl and Sophie and our other familiar friends working in the background or as supporting characters. What did you think of this choice?

I think it was a fantastic thing to do in the second book. It was a lot of fun

Spoiler
trying to guess who was who.
But I didn't like it in the third book. They were in it so little that it hardly counted as more than a mere cameo. Plus,
Spoiler
Twinkle? /:) I would have thought Howl being turned into a child would have been interesting, but it ended up being very... weird. I think I would have liked it if it had been handled better, but he ended up being very babyish, absurd, and over-the-top. Plus, his lisp grated on my nerves. :P

What was your opinion of the new characters such as Abdullah, Charmain, Peter, Waif, Jamal, Rollo, and the rest?

I really liked Abdullah, Flower-in-the-Night, and the other new characters of Book Two. Charmain was well-developed, but not at all likable. And I couldn't stand the fact that she was so

Spoiler
passive about Calcifer's possible death, and kept delaying to tell Sophie.
Peter didn't really have any personality that I could see, except for the fact that he was stubborn. The Kobolds were very... odd. They remind me of Smurfs, or some kind of fairy tale creature you would expect to see in a book aimed for much younger viewers than Diana Wynne Jones writes for. /:)

The first of the sequels, Castle in the Air, seems at first to be an entirely new story with no relation to Howl’s Moving Castle. But a few later surprises prove otherwise. What did you think of some of the book’s plot twists? Did you guess any of the surprises ahead of time? (Use spoiler boxes if necessary.)

[spoiler=]I got a little messed up when it comes to trying to guess who was who, because someone who had read the book told me that Howl disguises himself as a cat in this book. So I started under the assumption that they were telling me the truth. I thought that black cat would end up being Howl, but then I found out it had a kitten. /:) So that didn't make sense. ;)) Then I thought the kitten might be Howl. But the kitten seemed too... nice and innocent. So, I figured maybe that person wasn't telling me the truth about Howl being a cat. From there, I kept switching back and forth between the soldier and the magic carpet, thinking one of them was Howl. The genie said the soldier was the one who could help them the most and that he "shines with dishonesty". Well, that sounded like Howl. (I didn't think that the genie might have worded it that way because he was Howl. ;)) ) Plus, the soldier liked to drink (which Howl did in the first book), was stubborn and frustrating, and the way he defeated those thieves on the road seemed very magical and wizardly. But then the soldier said he wanted to marry a princess, and I knew Howl was already married. So then I suspected the magic carpet, who was shown to be vain every time it got a compliment from Abdullah. I thought the genie was either a new character or Calcifer. It was described as a bluish smoke, after all. And Calcifer was a blue flame. But I wasn't quite sure... He seemed too mean to be Calcifer. ;)) So, yeah. That was a mess. #:-s ;))

In the first two books, we are shown Diana Wynne Jones’ creation of the moving castle, with its ability to be in several different locations at once. But in House of Many Ways, we are introduced to a brand new house, one which can bend space and time. What did you think of the author’s two different houses? Which did you like more?

The Moving Castle. No contest. :P ;)

I don't know if Diana Wynne Jones intended this, or if I just see symbolism in everything, but the Moving Castle kind of represents Howl to me. It has the same sort of "nature" he does. What it is on the outside is just an illusion, and is something really quite different on the inside. When Sophie sees the inside of the castle, she finds it dirty and repulsive, and yet makes every excuse not to leave it. She's always trying to clean it up and make it better, much against Howl's will. All the dirt and spiders are things he wants to hang onto, and she wants to chase away. And Sophie often searches the castle, expecting/afraid to find something truly terrible and horrendous, but never really does. There's one room Howl always keeps hidden from her, and won't even let her peek inside, and Sophie assumes this must be the place where the really bad stuff is kept. But when she finally gets to see the room,

Spoiler
there's really nothing bad in it other than the typical dust and spiders which are in other rooms. And what's more, it has a window that looks out on his family so that he can watch over them.
It seems almost like what she does to the Castle and what she learns of it, mirrors her relationship with Howl, what she does to him, and what she learns about him.

Do you think there is anything in the books from which we can learn something, or is it pure entertainment? Any morals or lessons, or overall themes? If so, what are they?

I think the main theme is that things are never quite what they seem. And what we can learn from the books is that we should give people and situations a chance instead of judging them from first impressions. I mean, when I read this book, two characters who were first presented as a "cruel and cowardly, heart-eating wizard" and an "evil fire demon" turned out to be two of the best literary characters I've ever seen, and both of them were very noble in their own ways. If that can happen in a book, think how much more it could happen with real human beings who are much more complex than any fictional character.

Are there any elements in the books that took more than just a single read for you to notice?

Many, many things. Especially when it comes to literary references. Take for example Calcifer's "saucepan song". It's a real song, which I've heard is about a troubled family. If that's the case,

Spoiler
it wouldn't surprise me if Calcifer sings it so much because he shares a heart with Howl. Howl has a deep love for his family. But his relationship with them is anything but positive.
Also, of course, all the little hints that were dropped concerning certain twists, which you wouldn't understand until after you knew what the twist was.

Have you seen Studio Ghibli’s adaptation of Howl’s Moving Castle? Did you prefer the book or the movie?

I have seen it, own it, and enjoy it. It's a good movie. But the original is a fantastic book. I like the book more. ;)

How would you rate the movie as an adaptation? As a stand-alone film?

It's a great stand-alone film. I think both book-fans and non-book fans can enjoy it immensely. But I think book-fans have to separate it a good deal from the book to do so. It is a rather bad adaptation. The plot is different, what with the war and all. And the characters are entirely different. Sophie doesn't have enough spunk. Howl is so... cardboard and solemn and "suave". That isn't the whiny, frustrating, lovable Howl that I know! :P I mean, yes Howl is charming. But not that kind of charming. ;)) Plus, I did not picture Howl having that deep a voice. Christian Bale sounded too old to be Howl to me. I think Billy Crystal was too busy being Billy Crystal to be Calcifer. And Michael? Or should I say Markl? [-( He was just a baby! ;))

What are your favorite scenes, parts, characters, etc. from the movie?

One scene that sticks out to me is the one where Sophie and the Witch are trying to climb up those stairs. ;)) Studio Ghibli seem to have a habit of making funny stairs scenes. There was one in Spirited Away as well.

Is there anything in the movie that was different from the book, that you ended up liking even more than the original?

I thought it was really fascinating that we actually got to see

Spoiler
the moment Howl saves Calcifer's life by entering into the contract.[/spoiler]

Also, I love the soundtrack. :)

~Riella =:)

Topic starter Posted : September 7, 2012 1:01 pm
daughter of the King
(@dot)
Princess Dot Moderator

I have read all three books. My favorite was definitely the first one. The others just don't compare, especially the last one. I saw the movie before I knew about the books.

Favorite characters are probably Howl, Sophie, and Calcifer. I like Abdullah and Flower-in-the-Night too. Oh, and Michael.

Favorite quote: "What a lie that was." ;))

Spoiler
Twinkle? I would have thought Howl being turned into a child would have been interesting, but it ended up being very... weird. I think I would have liked it if it had been handled better, but he ended up being very babyish, absurd, and over-the-top. Plus, his lisp grated on my nerves.

Spoiler
Wasn't that the point? Howl is a drama queen, of course he would act babyish and absurd. I also got the impression that he lisped just to get on Sophie's nerves.

I did not picture Howl having that deep a voice. Christian Bale sounded too old to be Howl to me. I think Billy Crystal was too busy being Billy Crystal to be Calcifer.

Easily solved by watching it in Japanese with English subtitles. That's the only way I will watch it. ;)) It also helps to disconnect the book from the movie.

ahsokasig
Narniaweb sister to Pattertwig's Pal

Posted : September 7, 2012 1:43 pm
Ithilwen
(@ithilwen)
NarniaWeb Zealot

Spoiler
Wasn't that the point? Howl is a drama queen, of course he would act babyish and absurd. I also got the impression that he lisped just to get on Sophie's nerves.

Easily solved by watching it in Japanese with English subtitles. That's the only way I will watch it. ;))

I'll have to try that sometime. Thanks. :)

It also helps to disconnect the book from the movie.

As I said in my last post, I do disconnect the book from the movie, and easily enjoy it that way. :) Those comments you responded to were in the section of how well the movie stood as an adaptation. ;)

~Riella =:)

Topic starter Posted : September 7, 2012 2:49 pm
Lady Haleth
(@lady-haleth)
NarniaWeb Junkie

Speaking of Howl, I forgot to mention my other favorite quote.

I am cone sold stober!

Spoiler
Of course, that's when he gets drunk and keeps saying his bed is dodging away from him. Howl . . . .

The glory of God is man fully alive--St. Iraneus
Salvation is a fire in the midnight of the soul-Switchfoot

Posted : September 8, 2012 10:35 am
Meltintalle
(@mel)
Member Moderator

I've read all three Howl books. I think I'd rank them Moving Castle, House of Many Ways, and finally Castle in the Air. It's hard to decide which order to put the last two in though. There are parts I like a lot in each of them, but neither has quite the same sparkle as the first. :)

re: Howl's appearance in the third book

Spoiler
I have sort of a vague recollection of reading somewhere that the author felt that Howl as Howl would have been repeating a theme she'd already used which is why Howl is never himself in the sequels. On the other hand, I am pretty sure I would have preferred Howl to be his right size. He's enough of a caricature that he's well rounded as it is. :p Howl as x was interesting and new in the second book, and meh in the third. I don't deny that I was amused by Twinkle--but I didn't care about his limitations since as I recall Howl chose to be an annoying child. Howl and Sophie weren't/aren't what draws one back to HoMW, unlike in the first two.
I feel like I articulated that very poorly...

We have hands that fashion and heads that know,
But our hearts we lost - how long ago! -- G. K. Chesterton

Posted : September 9, 2012 9:20 am
Fire Fairy
(@fire-fairy)
NarniaWeb Junkie

-How many of the books have you read?
All three

- What was your opinion of each of the books, and which one was your favorite?
The first was my favorite. I accidentally read them out of order, so House of Many Ways ended up being my second favorite. I only kept reading Castle in the Sky because I knew Howl and Sophie and Calcifer were in there somewhere in disguise. That book is much more entertaining on a second or third read when you already know who's who.

- Favorite character(s)?
Howl. Then Calcifer (movie version), then Sophie (book version).

- Favorite moment(s)?
Sophie getting Calcifer to cook, Howl getting suicidal over hair color, and Howl getting drunk.

- Favorite quote(s)?
"I hope your bacon burns." - Calcifer
"I refuse to be exploited." - Calcifer
"I assure you, my friends, I am cone sold stober....What a lie that was!...My shining dishonesty will be the salvation of me." - Howl
"Sophie strikes again." - Howl

- In the sequels to Howl’s Moving Castle, Diana Wynne Jones chose to tell the stories from the perspective of new protagonists, and instead had Howl and Sophie and our other familiar friends working in the background or as supporting characters. What did you think of this choice?
I think this was rather smart on Diana Wynne Jones's part. It's nice to get a fresh perspective on Howl and Sophie, and you always get to see them through the eyes of someone who has never met them before. Also, this makes it so that the main character always has room for growth.

- Have you seen Studio Ghibli’s adaptation of Howl’s Moving Castle? Did you prefer the book or the movie?
I saw the movie first; it's what got me interested in the books. I was rather surprised as to how different they are, but I like them both just the same. The adaptation works very well as a film, while the book works very well as a book. Although I have a suspicion that I would have been disappointed with the movie if I was a fan of the book first, I think they are both gems in their own sense.

- How would you rate the movie as an adaptation? As a stand-alone film?
As an adaptation, it rather missed the mark. As a stand-alone film, it's absolutely marvelous.

- What are your favorite scenes, parts, characters, etc. from the movie?
I love Billy Crystal as Calcifer. I love the bacon and eggs scene, and I love it when Sophie goes back into Howl's childhood and sees the falling stars. I love how Sophie gets older and younger at various times depending on her self-esteem. I love seeing two old ladies both trying to climb a huge set of stairs. :p =))

- Is there anything in the movie that was different from the book, that you ended up liking even more than the original?
Sort of. I kind of liked the ending better, but only because it was in a movie. Movies are different media than books, so there's really no comparison here. Both rocked their respective mediums.

Member of the Dragon Lovers Club. PM FrecklefaceJill to join.

Posted : October 2, 2012 2:59 pm
waggawerewolf27
(@waggawerewolf27)
Member Hospitality Committee

How many of the books have you read?

Sorry, although I have seen the movie, enjoyed it immensely and actually own a copy, I haven't read any of the books yet and will do so if they are available locally.

- It’s said that imperfections make for a better character, since perfect characters are both uninteresting and unrelated. On the other hand, too many flaws can also make a character unlikable. What would you say it is in the case of the very flawed character of Howl? What do you think of him as a literary character? How much would your opinion change of him if he was a real person, rather than a fictional one?

Some of Howl's flaws did come through in the movie. As did those of the other characters. However, there was something so very World War 1 - ish about the movie that distracted from the sort of characterisation analysis needed here. Do we really judge people of another period of time the same way we judge ourselves? How different were their standards and experiences of life than is ours? Take the men who died in WW1. Were they really all the unselfish heroes of war memorials, laying down their lives to fight for their countries? Or were they as flawed as any of the rest of those who survived?

Couldn't they have resembled Howl at times? Did they always go to war for unselfish reasons? Or was it because of no work at home, to avoid family commitments or troubles with the law? Were they pressured into fighting for their countries?

- What was your opinion of Sophie? How much does her character change after the spell is placed? Would you say she was better off before or after the spell?

Even having only seen the movie I agree with Lady Haleth's point of view of Sophie.

I think Sophie's main problem in the beginning of the story was her lack of confidence. She thinks she's automatically going to fail, so she doesn't even try. She's less self-conscious as an old lady, and I think that helps her. I think she's better off having more confidence and doing magic than she was hiding in a hat shop like a mouse.

Sometimes the advantages of being young are wasted on the young, as then they have not had the prior experiences, and learning which boost confidence. And they are less aware that they will die sometime - possibly very soon. I could relate to Sophie's aches and pains and also how equal Sophie ended up becoming to the witch whose spell made her appear old.

-- There are many accidents and chaotic goings-on in the moving castle - sometimes due directly to Sophie, sometimes because of one of Michael’s spells gone wrong, sometimes due to other factors. Yet Howl seems to believe all of them come from “the one woman force of chaos” Sophie. Do you think this is fair? Do all these events somehow stem from Sophie?

That particular comment made me think of an old remark I once read which went something like this: "Women are there to be blamed for things you can't blame on the goverment". This remark was in an old reference book since someone so famous, he was worth quoting, was the person who said it. Possibly Howl might have said it also, given his attitude to Sophie. Being an old woman, I have often come across the attitude behind this quote. When things go wrong it isn't always my fault either. And this attitude also reinforces the era in which the movie Howl's Moving Castle appears to be set.

- What are your favorite scenes, parts, characters, etc. from the movie?

There was much to like about the movie, even compared to others Studio Ghibli has made. Hayao Miyazaki's other movies, like the anime genre as a whole, tend to reflect his Japanese origins, and for an anime-style movie, Howl's Moving Castle is curiously early 20th Century European in style. Especially when compared to Spirited Away, another movie I both enjoyed and own.

I've just come back from a trip to Britain and Europe. The Wednesday before last, we lunched in a small Czech Republic town called Tabor, famed for its connections with the religious reformer, Jan Huss, whose statue we saw the following day in the town square of Prague. Coming into that town, whose houses are set on a hillside, both my daughter and myself were immediately struck by their fairy-tale panoramic resemblances to the depicted scenery of the town where Sophie was a hatmaker. It is no accident, either.

The area of Czech Republic, like Slovakia and next door Hungary, was heavily affected by WW1, the first war in which aircraft were used. Ingary, did you say?

Posted : October 4, 2012 2:25 pm
Ithilwen
(@ithilwen)
NarniaWeb Zealot

The area of Czech Republic, like Slovakia and next door Hungary, was heavily affected by WW1, the first war in which aircraft were used. Ingary, did you say?

That's really cool you saw places so much like the ones in the movie. :)

Although, I have to point out it is most likely a coincidence when it comes to the naming of the country. Ingary is the name of the country in the book as well. And in the book, there isn't really description of what the town looks like, nor is there a war (except perhaps a quick rumor of war mentioned in passing in one part). All of that stuff is in the movie alone, which came out a few decades after the book was released. :)

~Riella =:)

Topic starter Posted : October 4, 2012 9:59 pm
waggawerewolf27
(@waggawerewolf27)
Member Hospitality Committee

Well, not as much of a coincidence as one would expect. I see in the previous readers' comments that there is a Welsh connection with the author at least, and yes, like the Czech Republic, Wales is a very small country, heavily influenced by its immediate neighbours. Both Wales and Central Europe - what is left of it - are in places very fairy tale-looking, architecturally, including styles of housing. I should post some pictures. It is not hard to see how imaginary countries like Ingary, Strangia and others could be based on such small countries.

When in Europe you see those golden palace and important building roofs - often done for real by the way - in the Paris skyline in particular, it is more understandable why UK still has a monarchy, why France had the violent epoch-making revolution, and why different parts of Europe had the different fortunes they did.

Spoiler
At least the golden roof of the High Norland palace which is so important to House of many ways wasn't intended to be real.

- How many of the books have you read?

I am reading these books, and have just finished House of many ways. Due to a copy of Howl's moving castle having been kept overdue since 2008, and a someone thinking that the House of Many Ways might be the American title of Castle in the air, I will have to read the trilogy in the exact reverse order. 8-|

- Favorite character(s)?

Waif, Princess Hilda and Calcifer, who in this book is definitely good.

I liked Charmain who has an overwhelming urge to read, who isn't really lazy and

Spoiler
who doesn't mean to be unkind to others
.
Spoiler
I liked that she wouldn't let Rollo chop down someone else's hydrangeas and that she tried to make good use of the blossoms the kobolds snipped from those bushes. On the other hand I felt impatient that it was only Peter's leadership that impelled her to do anything useful about the mess she had been left with. I don't think that Charmain was too passive in not telling Sophie of Calcifer's possible death. By the time Charmain had found Sophie in the palace, she had been looking for Calcifer, who needed to know about the other Lubbocks etc, Charmain had also helped in the capture of Rollo and helped resolve his fate. That was quite active compared to her passivity about the washing up & laundry
. Peter makes a good foil for her since he is more practical and outgoing.

- Favorite moment(s)?

Bubbles, pink washing,

Spoiler
Sophie getting a cookbook from her Dad, meeting Howl and Sophie (finally) and getting rid of the Lubbocks and Lubbockins
.

The only thing I really disliked was

Spoiler
Howl as Twinkle, especially his irritating lisp. Ithilwen, I agree with you there. ;). Though by the end of the book I could see the sense of his disguise since it ensured Morgan's protection.

- Favorite quote(s)?

Calling Charmain "Charming". Bit too downright and frank to be called 'charming' all the time, wasn't she?

"Don't you think I'm pwetty at all?" ....."Yes....Disgustingly pretty!".

I'd like a full character analysis of Charmain, the lead female character of House of Many Ways. Perhaps her bookishness is a strategy she uses to escape the reality of her mother's social expectations, among other things. Being alone, house-sitting, is a chance for this only child to get to grips with growing up, without being stifled by parental expectations..

Posted : October 6, 2012 2:54 pm
waggawerewolf27
(@waggawerewolf27)
Member Hospitality Committee

I've now also read Castle in the Air, but will have to wait until after October to get a chance to read Howl's Moving Castle. If I'm lucky.

Although, I have to point out it is most likely a coincidence when it comes to the naming of the country. Ingary is the name of the country in the book as well.

Yes, I've noted this now. It is more noticeable in Castle in the Air than it is in House of Many Ways. I enjoyed both books, and found myself rereading House of Many Ways to pick up any connections between the two books, but there weren't many. Apart from Howl, Sophie and Calcifer,

Spoiler
there were only Princess Hilda, herself, the cook and his dog, and Queen Beatrice from Strangia.
.

Posted : October 18, 2012 11:53 am
malkah
(@malkah)
NarniaWeb Guru

How many of the books have you read?
All three of the Howl trilogy.

- What was your opinion of each of the books, and which one was your favorite?
HMC is by far my favorite. Castle in the Air was enjoyable but a bit lacking in comparison, and House of Many Ways just felt disjointed, especially for a Diana Wynne Jones novel. It's like she tried to bring too many different elements together and pushed the suspension of disbelief too far.

- Favorite character(s)?
Howl, of course. ;) Sophie and Calcifer are wonderful. I like the rest of the characters (Michael, Abdullah, Sophie's sisters), but none of them stood out as particularly memorable.

- Favorite moment(s)?

In HMC:

Spoiler
Howl's dramatics over his hair, when Sophie pretends to be his mother and has to go visit Mrs. Pentstemmon and blacken his name to the King, when she's "weed-killing her way down the drive" and venting to Percival, when Howl shows up to rescue Sophie from the Witch without spending hours in the bathroom...the entire book, basically. :P

In Castle in the Air:

I loved all the bits with the flying carpet and Abdullah's day spent collecting the portraits for Flower-in-the-Night.

Spoiler
And the ending where Abdullah goes to confront the djinn, and he's mincing along in a petticoat with the carpet and genie underneath and a dog between his knees. I was dying. :))

- Favorite quote(s)?
Oh goodness, where to even start. "I hope your bacon burns" is quoted a lot around our house. :P
"I assure you, my friends, I am cone sold stober!"
“Yes, you are nosy. You're a dreadfully nosy, horribly bossy, appallingly clean old woman. Control yourself. You're victimizing us all.”
"My shining dishonesty will be the salvation of me."
"I'm a coward. The only way I can do something this frightening is to tell myself I'm not doing it!" I love that whole chapter where

Spoiler
Howl rescues Sophie
So much insight into his character.

- It’s said that imperfections make for a better character, since perfect characters are both uninteresting and unrelated. On the other hand, too many flaws can also make a character unlikable. What would you say it is in the case of the very flawed character of Howl? What do you think of him as a literary character? How much would your opinion change of him if he was a real person, rather than a fictional one?
As a literary character, Howl is absolutely brilliant. Typically fictional characters either are fully flawed antiheroes or their less-than-admirable traits are a facade. Howl actually is most of the faults that Sophie accuses him of--vain, selfish, cowardly, melodramatic. And yet he's simultaneously compassionate, patient, deeply loyal to those he cares about, and far more selflessly brave than anyone gives him credit for. The two sides of his personality are both the "real" Howl and neither one cancels out the other. That's what makes him such a fascinating and endearing character. Even though in real life he'd drive me absolutely bonkers. ;))

- Howl seems to see his faults, such as his cowardice and dishonesty, as a point of pride. But do you think he paints an accurate picture of himself? Is Howl as bad, not as bad, or even worse than he claims to be? Why?

I really think the key to Howl's character is his insecurity.

Spoiler
In the chapter where he comes to rescue Sophie, he essentially admits to being a coward who can't carry the burden of feeling responsible for the things that matter. The only way to be brave and selfless and protective (things which he inevitably is when the time comes) is to remove the pressure of people always expecting him to be so. He's so afraid of not being good enough that he has to convince himself he isn't in order to be good enough, if that makes any sense. ;)) I think Howl's room is one of the truest glimpses we get into his personality in the book. The spiders and dust represent the chaos and carelessness that he lives with willingly, and yet what does the one window in the room look out on? His family. Who completely reject him (with the exception of Mari). I think that's the perfect reflection of the sources of his insecurity, his attempts to tell himself none of it matters, and the deep-down knowledge that he'll be putting himself on the line for his loved ones again the next time, just like always.

- What was your opinion of Sophie? How much does her character change after the spell is placed? Would you say she was better off before or after the spell?

The spell's not perfect, but in a way it was the best thing that ever happened to Sophie. She was unable to stay where she was in her safe shell, and forced to get out, take on life, and learn that she had the ability to thrive on her own. That being said, I think the spell enables Sophie to be too uninhibited after having been under such restraint for so long. So it takes the course of the novel and turning back into a young woman to teach her balance, that she can be expressive and make her own decisions without having to constantly yell and scold and violently clean people's houses.

- Do you believe what Sophie says about being “the eldest of three” is true?
Not at all, and Sophie herself proves it wrong. I do think it's a perfect example of the power of language which is a major theme in the novel. She's always been told that there's only one possible narrative for her life, and so she internalizes that she has no control over her own fate. And it turns out the exact reverse; even her words are literally powerful.

- What is your opinion of Calcifer? Sophie often describes him as an “evil demon” and someone who should not be trusted. But Calcifer insists that he doesn’t think he’s evil. What do you think? Is he evil?
Calcifer isn't evil any more than Howl is. He's snarky and selfish, but any "evil" comes from the dysfunction of his deal with Howl. I think it's very telling how both Howl and Calcifer fear that their bargain will end up like the Witch and Miss Angorian's did--that sort of consuming destruction is something that neither of them want, even for the power.

- There are many accidents and chaotic goings-on in the moving castle - sometimes due directly to Sophie, sometimes because of one of Michael’s spells gone wrong, sometimes due to other factors. Yet Howl seems to believe all of them come from “the one woman force of chaos” Sophie. Do you think this is fair? Do all these events somehow stem from Sophie?
In one sense, yes. Sophie's coming does seem to set into motion a lot of chaos that wasn't present before (like the curse). Her constant housecleaning is the perfect metaphor for the upheaval she causes in every area of Howl's life. But life in the moving castle was already insane before Sophie arrived and Howl causes plenty of trouble on his own without any help from her. ;)

- In the sequels to Howl’s Moving Castle, Diana Wynne Jones chose to tell the stories from the perspective of new protagonists, and instead had Howl and Sophie and our other familiar friends working in the background or as supporting characters. What did you think of this choice?
Not enough Howl and Sophie by far. ;)) But it's always interesting to see protagonists or favorite characters through the eyes of others, and the glimpses of their married life are really fun.

- What was your opinion of the new characters such as Abdullah, Charmain, Peter, Waif, Jamal, Rollo, and the rest?
They were okay. Abdullah was the only one I really ended up liking.

- The first of the sequels, Castle in the Air, seems at first to be an entirely new story with no relation to Howl’s Moving Castle. But a few later surprises prove otherwise. What did you think of some of the book’s plot twists? Did you guess any of the surprises ahead of time? (Use spoiler boxes if necessary.)

- In the first two books, we are shown Diana Wynne Jones’ creation of the moving castle, with its ability to be in several different locations at once. But in House of Many Ways, we are introduced to a brand new house, one which can bend space and time. What did you think of the author’s two different houses? Which did you like more?
The moving castle, definitely. :D (I love the theory that the castle is in some ways a personification of Howl himself). It's unique and alive and almost a character itself in a way that the other house isn't. And who doesn't want a castle that can have multiple solid doors into different worlds and be bouncing around on the hills at the same time? ;)

- Are there any elements in the books that took more than just a single read for you to notice?
Definitely; HMC in particular is so layered. The multiple references to John Donne's poetry (both the curse and Howl's "busy old fool, unruly Sophie" comment), and the Arthurian references (Gareth and Percival are both names of Knights of the Round Table and Howl's alias is Pendragon). I also noticed how impressions and facades also play a huge role in the story; the characters often seem to be made up of perceptions, rather than who they truly are.

- Have you seen Studio Ghibli’s adaptation of Howl’s Moving Castle? Did you prefer the book or the movie?
I've only seen disjointed scenes, so this is a biased judgement. ;) From what I've seen, the film is beautifully animated and an interesting story in its own right, but it doesn't capture the wit and heart and whimsical absurdity of the book. Howl is far too noble and suave and Sophie's missing her temper and spice. I can't picture them throwing tantrums over head colds and going on murderous weed-killing rampages. ;))

the light after the storm
shows that hope was never gone

Snow After Fire graphics

Posted : October 20, 2012 12:01 am
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