I'm dressing up! I already have a Ravenclaw scarf, and I'm going to pull the rest of the uniform together and make a set of robes in June. So excited! I'm hosting a Potter Party as well, and everyone is dressing up. We're theater people - we get really into this sort of thing.

ok - I am not and Harry Potter fan but I have a question:
once HP and the Deathly Hollows pt. 2 comes out, what then? is the franchise over? is that the last book? has JK Rowling written any sequels, or is this it?

thanks,
Libby

What then? Who knows. HP and the Deathly Hallows is the seventh (and final) book in the series. There are no sequels. The end.

ok, thanks for the answer!
what on earth will you HP fans do without another movie?

This thread is way too in-depth for me. I got to page 10 or so and had to give up.

I am just now getting into the Potter series ... about a decade later than my peers, I know. I had read the first book (which I enjoyed) and dragged by some friends to see the fourth movie (which utterly confused me

but stopped after that. At the suggestion of several friends, I picked the series up again, and ate up the first three books in two days. I'm about to start GoF, and have put the first three movies on hold at the library.

So far, I am enjoying the books, although I found Chamber of Secrets a bit subpar given the books it's sandwiched between. Also, I don't like how Rowling feels the need to repeat the plot of the previous installments at the beginning of every ... single ... book. Hopefully she quits doing this at some point, because it's just going to get more and more wearying as the series goes on. And the comma splices in the first book! You think a good editor would have caught those. Thankfully, I haven't been noticing them much in the subsequent books. Maybe they got a new copy editor.

Favorite characters? Well, I do see a lot of myself in Hermione, which makes her sort of a favorite ... and sort of not. The interactions between the main threesome are classic. And I love, love, love Lupin. McGonagall too: I don't feel she gets much love. Snape is among the most fascinating characters, of course. I'm guessing Dumbledore gains in depth as the series goes on; right now he's most a Purveyor of Platitudes.

Some thoughts on the little I did read in this thread (all of it old):

As for why Twilight hasn't received much of a hullabaloo from Christians, I'm not sure why. It's certainly very popular and no secret what the books are about. The vampires and werewolves would be the least of their problems anyway. The abusive and unhealthy relationship models in the books are much more harmful.

There's beginning to be more of a backlash, I think. As usual, the conservative Christian contingent is several years behind on these things. But as yet there doesn't seem to be as much of a backlash as there was at one point for HP ... maybe they think Twilight isn't worth their attention? LOL.

I think it will get a PG-13 but it'll be at the higher end of the rating.

I don't know about how it is in the Land Down Under, but there's been considerable "stretching" of the upper limits of the PG-13 rating here in the US. Goodness, all three LotR films and the Bourne films got that rating. I haven't read Deathly Hollows yet, but I'd doubt it would get an R here.

Anyway, just a few thoughts. I'm curious to discover if any older Potter fans (Wagga ) have seen some of these literary and psychological connections also.

I'd noticed the repackaging of the old "boarding school" stories, which date all the way back to P. G. Wodehouse, and probably before. In examining the first book, I also saw connections to Roald Dahl (the Dursleys, primarily) and C. S. Lewis (the centaurs, the Mirror of Erised).

It's been a little while since I've popped in to visit, but seeing as Lysander sent me a Shout-Out I thought I'd drop in.

Glad to hear you're reading the books finally Lys. I actually didn't start reading the series until the 4th book came out. I thought it was just a bunch of hype. Boy was I wrong.

As far as I'm concerned, the Potter books are the best Fantasy Series since the Middle Earth, and Narnia Fantasy Series. Both Tolkien and Lewis would have agreed that they were rewriting Myths and cadging the best bits, and that it's all about how everything is put together. Like the 12 notes in an octave; one has to use all the same notes (unless you use different tunings, but the point is the same). It's how you rearrange them that's unique.

Now most writers trying to do Tolkien's "High" Fantasy aren't doing much rearranging at all. Which is why I've found most "adult" fantasy literature boring and tepid. There are some notable exceptions of course, but that discussion would be a whole topic in its own right.

CS Lewis himself borrowed bits of everything and put it together in a way which Tolkien, rather insensitively, called a "hodgepodge." I disagree with Tolkien of course. I find the Narnia series a beautiful and enchantingly unique series that hits (mostly) all the right notes.

I think Fantasy Lit aimed at children and teens generally compares much more favourably with Lewis, than "Adult" Fantasy Lit does with Tolkien. Children's and Teen's series are much more imaginative on the whole (I'm currently enjoying the "How to Train Your Dragon" series for example).

What I enjoy most about Rowling, is that her Harry Potter series successfully straddles both "High" and "Low" Fantasy, or rather; "Adult" and "Youth" Fantasy. I really haven't seen anything quite like the Potter series in that regard. She uses a lot of the same notes that British Authors of both adult and kid lit use--definitely bits of Roald Dahl and Wodehouse and Blyton and Lewis--but also of Tolkien, the Arthurian myths, and even a bit of Blake.

The way she puts it all together creates a very unique Melody all of her own. One which resonates with the Greatest and most powerful Myths back through the centuries.

Obviously I'm looking forward to the film Finale. I think David Yates has done a bang-up job adapting the last 3 books. It's not a task that I envy. Those books are far too complex to completely do justice to in a 2 1/2 hour film (but Yates manages to pull them off, get the most important bits, and present a cohesive story). Which is why I'm so glad the decision was made to film the last book in 2 parts.

GB

I think you've done a very good job of analyzing the state of the two major fantasy markets (adult and YA/children's), GB. I doubt that I personally will find the series the best since Narnia and Middle-Earth, but then again, I'm not yet halfway through. It is a nicely constructed hodgepodge in the manner of Lewis (that's a good point of comparison), and as you say, far superior to all the thousand-volume would-be-Tolkien epic fantasies you see lining bookstore shelves. I'm not seeing a terrible lot of the straddling you've mentioned yet, but I'm guessing that will become more apparent in the coming volumes. I did think that

Nice to see you Ly. I'm glad you are enjoying the series. The series gets increasingly adult as Harry gets older. It also gets better (with the possible exception of the very odd 6th book). My personal favorites are 4 and 5 (though some people don't like 5 because it can be kind of rambling). The plots between books become more cohesive and the stakes get way higher.

I actually think the increasing adultness could be a problem for current readers. Book one is appropriate for an 11 year old, but 6 certainly is not. But I can't see children wanting to wait 5 years before they read the end of the series.

I enjoyed reading both of your analyses of some of the literary influences. I read the books for the first time around age 11, so I was hardly thinking about those kinds of things. Ly, what Lewis reference is the Mirror of Erised?

McGonagall has always been one of my favorite characters in the books and she does get a bit more love from Rowling later on. There's something so faithful and solid (and awesome) about her.

GB: I agree that Yates' adaptations have been wonderful. The first half of 7 was possibly the best adaptation I have ever seen.

I appreciate your concurrence with my analysis Lys

I'm not seeing a terrible lot of the straddling you've mentioned yet, but I'm guessing that will become more apparent in the coming volumes.

Indeed, you get a sense of where the series is going towards the end of PoA (HP3). But by the end of GoF(HP4), it's clear that the series is entering adult territory.

I did think that

Yes there is a bit of that definitely. And you'll see that it plays out with some similarity in the end, but not nearly as significant.

Kate, I agree that by book 5 one should be cautious about the maturity of the youngsters reading the books, which I think will be different ages for different children. And I think pre-teen kids should definitely have some parental involvement as they read though the series. There is a lot of heavy stuff that may need some explaining to some kids.

And Yeah, it was hard to see some of my favourite bits not make it into film 5, but there's just too much to pack it all in. Yates very skilfully pared the story to its essentials. On 6, his job was a bit easier. There was a lot of information in the book that could be consolidated and conveyed without losing too much. I was amazed at how well he did getting so much into that one.

And of course, by 7, with two films to cover the story, Yates' direction and adaptation have really nailed it.

GB

So far, I am enjoying the books, although I found Chamber of Secrets a bit subpar given the books it's sandwiched between. Also, I don't like how Rowling feels the need to repeat the plot of the previous installments at the beginning of every ... single ... book. Hopefully she quits doing this at some point, because it's just going to get more and more wearying as the series goes on. And the comma splices in the first book! You think a good editor would have caught those. Thankfully, I haven't been noticing them much in the subsequent books. Maybe they got a new copy editor.

Although Chamber of Secrets doesn't seem as good as some of the other books, it is the key one. Philosopher's Stone (Sorcerer's Stone to you ) introduces the series, and the seven tasks to find the Philosopher's Stone seem to mirror the ensuing books. Each of the other books seem to draw on some aspect of what happens in COS. It got to be fun picking up Things Hidden in Plain Sight. Keep your eyes open for the following items/people:

JK Rowling gets a bit more imaginative as to how she introduces each book, and ties it in with the previous volumes.

Some thoughts on the little I did read in this thread (all of it old):

As for why Twilight hasn't received much of a hullabaloo from Christians, I'm not sure why. It's certainly very popular and no secret what the books are about. The vampires and werewolves would be the least of their problems anyway. The abusive and unhealthy relationship models in the books are much more harmful.

There's beginning to be more of a backlash, I think. As usual, the conservative Christian contingent is several years behind on these things. But as yet there doesn't seem to be as much of a backlash as there was at one point for HP ... maybe they think Twilight isn't worth their attention? LOL.

I think that Twilight was never intended for children. That is the difference. Why bother about what is virtually a combination of very adult romance with fantasy?

I think it will get a PG-13 but it'll be at the higher end of the rating.

I don't know about how it is in the Land Down Under, but there's been considerable "stretching" of the upper limits of the PG-13 rating here in the US. Goodness, all three LotR films and the Bourne films got that rating. I haven't read Deathly Hollows yet, but I'd doubt it would get an R here.

We have a slightly different coding system. CON:PC, LOTR and the later HP films all got an M rating (for mature). The next one up is MA(mature adults only). There used to be an ad in front of movies and on television explaining the ratings, starring a family wearing t-shirts.

Anyway, just a few thoughts. I'm curious to discover if any older Potter fans (Wagga ) have seen some of these literary and psychological connections also.

I'd noticed the repackaging of the old "boarding school" stories, which date all the way back to P. G. Wodehouse, and probably before. In examining the first book, I also saw connections to Roald Dahl (the Dursleys, primarily) and C. S. Lewis (the centaurs, the Mirror of Erised).

You'll see more connections as the series gets along, especially to C.S.Lewis and the Narnia books. You've already met at least one connection, in POA and GOF, and there are others. C.S.Lewis didn't see school as a particularly pleasant place, but JK Rowling, a teacher, herself, could also see that school might be a more bearable place to be than a loveless home.

What JKR did that was so different from other boarding school books, is to show a trio of children growing up, how their interactions change, and how adolescents do develop into adulthood. She wrote something in which the main children do not always get to be prefects, sports people, popular or fantastically looking.

They might manage some of these things occasionally but not all the time. Sometimes they are bullied, sometimes they make mistakes. They have to learn they aren't always going to be right. The hero doesn't always get the heroine, and the trio can be just as grumpy and difficult to get along with as ordinary adolescents sometimes are. Of course by the end of the series it is no longer a children's series, but one for young adults By the time the trio are about to leave school they are adults or virtually adults, though in the last book, they still have much to learn.

I didn't see the Mirror as an actual reference to Lewis in the same way that the centaurs were, Kate; I just found the discourse and message vaguely similar to Lewis there. This reasoning has become a bit hazy in my memory now (the result of reading all of the first three books in two days) and I don't have a copy at the moment.

And when I spoke of McGonagall not getting enough love, I didn't mean from Rowling, but from fans. She doesn't seem to be the first person to come to mind when people are thinking of their favorite characters -- she didn't for me, but I do love her.

McGonagall is definitely tops in my book.

GB

I think McGonagall is well respected in the Harry potter fandom, but just not as avidly. She does have some good moments in the last book.

I am a huge McGonagall fan! I love her in the 5th book when ever shes against Umbridge! And espicially in the seventh book! A definite unsung hero but she has done so much good

Yes, McGonagall is my favorite of the teachers! Besides Lupin, but he was only there for one year, so I'm not counting him. I can't wait to see her in the last movie!

Speaking of which, pre-order tickets for the midnight showing have gone on sale, at least in my area. I'm buying a bunch of them at once for my party, but I'm trying to get as many friends to give me their ticket money as possible before I go buying a dozen or so of them. I'm keeping a careful watch on the website to make sure they don't sell out, but as there's different theaters for the 2D and 3D versions, back to back Part 1 and Part 2 double features in 2D and 3D, as well as a ticket for a marathon showing all 8 movies in a row and starting at 5:00am, I don't think the 2D midnight showing is going to sell out as quickly.