About the tempting thing, do any of you believe Satan would tempt a "non-believer" to sin, or does he even worry about causing them to stumble? Or would he divert his energies to the Christians and such?

Sorry it's been so long since I've been on - I was asked to leave my Christian school BECAUSE I'm agnostic, and they didn't want that sort of influence at the school - and my computer was taken away for awhile because of the incident. Interestingly enough I had yet to share my beliefs at school, but I guess that's what happens when you get alot of moral people together who feel it's their duty to worry about what everyone else is doing.

Andrew, to answer both points. First off, yes, Satan will tempt 'non-believers'. His goal is to steal, kill, and destroy, and he doesn't care who he takes down. He goes after Christians more because we are a threat to him. Non-Christians, he goes after in attempt to keep them from seeking God when he calls them.

I am very sorry about you getting kicked out of the Christian school. This is NOT how a Christian should act. You know that it is a Christian's duty to make disciples of all nations (Matt 28). How can they do that, if they do not witness to those who are not Christian? Unfortunately, there are a lot of Christian churches and schools, etc that only want thier 'kind' around. And I will be one of the first to say that this is wrong. This is one of Satan's favorite tactics on American Christians: to keep them isolated in thier own groups, so they don't witness to those around them. Please don't take it against Christianity, because even though this school claims to be Christians, they are not walking what they preach.

Christianity is not about conforming to a standard, especially one given by a human institution. It is about living a lifestyle that follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. And many times, the Christian's and non-Christian's biggest persecutors are...other Christians. It is so sad, but that is the way it has played out. I'll say more later.

Andrew, I'm really sorry to hear that this happened to you. I'm shocked. I don't think that would ever happen in Australia, simply because the majority of people who attend Christian schools, at least Christian high-schools aren't Christians. There are a higher percentage of Christian students in primary (elementary) schools though. I can see why so many people want to run from Christ, if this is the picture they get of him from his followers.

Andrew, I'm sorry that happened to you.

P.P.S.
Isn't that (learning from each other) sort of like what we NarniaWebbers are doing here? I think this place benefits from having you here and you have a lot of friends here.

I am very sorry about you getting kicked out of the Christian school. This is NOT how a Christian should act. You know that it is a Christian's duty to make disciples of all nations (Matt 28). How can they do that, if they do not witness to those who are not Christian? Unfortunately, there are a lot of Christian churches and schools, etc that only want thier 'kind' around. And I will be one of the first to say that this is wrong. This is one of Satan's favorite tactics on American Christians: to keep them isolated in thier own groups, so they don't witness to those around them. Please don't take it against Christianity, because even though this school claims to be Christians, they are not walking what they preach.

Christianity is not about conforming to a standard, especially one given by a human institution. It is about living a lifestyle that follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. And many times, the Christian's and non-Christian's biggest persecutors are...other Christians. It is so sad, but that is the way it has played out. I'll say more later.

You hit the nail on the head Fencer I've seen too many Christians doing similar things! Jesus said, "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven." (Luke 6:37, NIV) To often Satan causes people who claim to be Christians to forget this, causing them to turn others away from Christ. Such people act like the Pharisee's of Jesus' day. Jesus commanded us to love our enimies, not cast them away. This goes back to another question, I belive it was EJ's, if God loves non-Christians: Of course he does, or else he would not rejoice so much when they turned to him. See the parable of the lost sheep, Matthew 18:10-14 NIV.

Matthew 10:14, "In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost." God loves non-believers and he wants to see them come to him. But he has to caste evil away. He offered us a chance for forgiveness, but also a choice to take it, and we must live with the consequences of that choice. But if God loves all the non-believers, should not we? Isn't it part of our moral duty as a Christian.

Also to go way back to pages one and two. I believe in God, destiny, fate and free-will, and I believe that they are all interconnected. I believe that, in a broad sense, yes we have a purpose to serve God, and grow closer to him, but it's still more than that. We have a chance to make the world better, to save lives and souls, while bringing both them and ourselves closer to God. Isn't that part of our purpose to? I believe to that God gave us each and individual destiny, but it is our choice weather or not to follow it. Yet, we must live with the consequences of that choice, God will punish us for our evil, just as he tests us with hardships, to help us grow therefore our choices will also influence our fate, but we likely will know not of it or what it is til it comes.

I also have a question:
I'm a Christian, but I guess I could also be called an environmentalist. Lots of times it seems as though these two things conflict. But for me that has never been the case... Is the conflict human created? Or does it depend on what values a person gets from both? Or do the two truly conflict?

Personally, I feel that this is where God wants me to go, its given me a different perspective on the world than scientists or religious leaders, but God has lead me here and I truly believe that he wants me to work here, in a sense it's part of my destiny. I believe that he wants to use me to make the world better, and I pray I can live up to his call.

I'll just make this quick. It is fully possible to be both Christian and environmentalist. Just like it is fully possible to be both Christian and scientist, educator, politician, etc. The Bible says we are to subdue the earth and control it, but it also says we need to be good stewards of what were are given. Be wary of the extreme environmentalist side of things. They get close to worshiping the creation, and not the creator. But that doesn't mean we should be careless. There is a line in between the two sides, but it is not a thin line. There is a lot of leyway and 'gray' area stuff. So you can be both without really offending either side.

Fencer, I think you're touching on something much more profound than you know, which is the doctrine of creation. Many Christians, when they think about the doctrine of creation, think it's all about age of the earth, evolution, and the like. However, the concept of creation in Scripture is so much more fundamental than this. It's about where the earth came from, who made it, and that He made it good. The doctrine of creation is about the fact that God made the world and made it good. Moreover, he gave us a task: "take dominion, rule the creation, multiply, steward what I have given you for my glory" says the Lord. Then Adam and Eve go and mess it up.

And that's why Jesus came: to redeem His creation. Did Jesus come to save souls? Yes, but He also came to redeem His creation and declare the beginning of a new order: a better kingdom, a new creation. As Christians, then, we have the duty to redeem what we can of the created order because, as Dutch theologian Abraham Kuyper said, "There is not a single square inch in all of creation of which Christ has not said, 'this is mine!'"

I also have a question:
I'm a Christian, but I guess I could also be called an environmentalist. Lots of times it seems as though these two things conflict. But for me that has never been the case... Is the conflict human created? Or does it depend on what values a person gets from both? Or do the two truly conflict?

Christianity and Environmentalism conflict only if you equate Christianity with a certain *cough* political persuasion.

As someone noted above, Christians are called to be stewards over all Creation. Taking care of the earth should not be a right-wing/left-wing issue; it should be an issue of obedience to Scripture.

Christ's lordship extends to every area of life, as TBG noted--it is arrogant of us to suppose that he cares only for men's souls when Scripture is so plain that he means to redeem our bodies, that he means to redeem his whole creation!

Just as the old Narnia was a shadow of the new Narnia, our present earth is a shadow of the earth to come in the sense that it is less real, less tangible, less satisfying the New Earth will be. The New Earth will be the perfection of all the shadows of truth and beauty in this one. The point of all this is that physicality is good--taking care of the good, physical, tangible Creation that God has entrusted to us is a legitimate (even necessary!) part of our calling as Christians.

What does everyone think about kosher eating? Like as far as not eating pork and the other meats that the Hebraic law talks about?
I would really like to hear about what other people think about this.

I won't pretend to be an expert on this or anything -- and this could be totally off -- but someone once told me that the reason the Bible says not to eat certain foods, touch certain things, etc. was because, at the time, the people did not have the means to cook things properly, store things properly, clean things properly, etc. For instance, I heard from this same person that they did not have soap in those days, and therefore had to be very careful as to what to touch, lest they should contract some sort of disease. It was more for safety, perhaps, than for holiness. (And since we have those means now, those rules would no longer apply.)

Doesn't it also say in Galatians not to let anyone tell you not to eat of certain things?
I also recall a scripture that says all things are permitted (but not all things are profitable.)

So, it looks to me that it would be fine to eat whatever meats you want. We aren't under the law anymore. But if it was something that bothered you, you wouldn't have to eat it, of course. I think it's more your own decision now.

~Riella

I have been raised eating kosher and keeping the Hebraic laws. I do believe in it.
I always thought some of the reasons might be for pigs was that they are not very clean animals and they eat some pretty gross things, but you could say the same thing about some kosher animals such as chickens.

Sorry to interrupt your conversation, but this seemed to be the appropriate thread to ask a question:
Yesterday I was in the garden with my cat, just sitting down.
A (tired looking) moth flew down next to her and couldn't seem to move... I distracted my cat, and somehow helped the moth fly again, but it being disorientated flew straight into a spider web!
A big black spider darted down and grabbed the moth and quickly dragged it further into its home, where i could no longer rescue the moth...
I destroyed most of the web and the spider dropped out of it, onto the ground and hid (badly) in under a leaf...
I found that I couldn’t kill it, even after it had taken the moth.
I know it seems weird to worry about this, but it just seems strange that I couldn’t kill it!
Why do you think I couldn’t?

The Jewish people were commanded to avoid certain foods for health reasons, yes but also to separate God's people from the surrounding pagan nations. To be 'holy' is to be set apart. Since Jesus coming to earth as a human and dying to appease God's wrath (and later rising to new life) has fulfilled the New Covenant, this practice is no longer required.

Well often when I debate people who are not Christians about what they believe. They often come back to the kosher laws asking if Christians who do not eat kosher will go to heaven. I'll tell them "yeah, they will go to heaven". But then they say that if Christian's don't need to keep the kosher laws they don't need to keep the other laws. What do you tell tell them when they say that?

Jill_Pole, I guess this is just a more extreme senario of "All things have their time." I'm sure the moth had led a full life, and it was it's time to die. As for the spider it did not. God knows when every creature falls, and he won't allow it to die unless it's the proper time.