Be wary of feelings. It can be nothing more than your imagination (or something more sinister).

EDIT: Actually I have a quick question: I was baptised as an infant in a Lutheran church and I was just wondering what that means for my salvation. I am currently attending a Baptist church, obviously where baptisms are not performed at birth but sometime after salvation is received. Should I get baptised again? Baptism is a confusing issue. Some tell me baptism is necessary for salvation, others say it is a mere extra or 'declaration'.

Topic change, go!

So, to see what everyone here thinks, I ask: What role do you believe our feelings should play in our relationship with God?

That's a tricky question because it depends on what you mean by "feelings", and what the situation is.

I've seen people in some worship services; and to them, the whole thing was about feelings. It was like getting "high" on religion the way some people get high on drugs; and the whole things was much more like worshiping feelings rather than worshiping God. That, obviously, isn't a good thing.

But at the same time, there's another type of "feeling" besides the highs and lows that result from circumstances/hormones/excitement/atmosphere, etc. And this type of feeling is more tied in with our hearts. This, I believe, is important when it comes to God, or anything else for that matter. Because if it isn't there while we're doing something, that's often a sign our heart isn't fully in it. Without the "feeling" that is a love for God or a desire to serve and worship him, the things we do for Him can be more a matter of ceremony than actual worship.

Feelings are also something you have to be very careful with. Satan can use them to make you believe things that aren't true, by making you feel you or a situation is better or worse than they truly are; or by making you feel God doesn't love you, or that you aren't saved. But God can also use your feelings for different things, such as teaching you things and bringing you closer to Him. And when it comes to differentiating which situation is which, that's a matter of discernment that comes through prayer and study of God's Word.

~Riella

Actually I have a quick question: I was baptised as an infant in a Lutheran church and I was just wondering what that means for my salvation.

Short answer: I think infant baptism is perfectly legitimate. It's standard practice in most Christian traditions (indeed, I was baptized as an infant).

However, the question would be whether you think that such is legitimate and/or whether your church will accept you into fellowship even though you were baptized as an infant.

So, to see what everyone here thinks, I ask: What role do you believe our feelings should play in our relationship with God?

About the same role they should play in any other relationship. i.e. they shouldn't be the basis for it.

TBG

So, I think there's a relative consensus that feelings shouldn't be the basis for our relationship with God, or should be the primary thing we look to.

So, what role should feelings play, then? After all, God did create humans to undergo various emotions, so feelings certainly can be good. The question is, in what way can feelings be good, and in what way can they not be good?

Ithilwen raises some good points that, on one hand, the purpose of church isn't supposed to be a place to make us feel good. On the other hand, we can come to a point where we are just "going through the motions", and something about that is tied to our feelings. And the way to make the discernment of good and "bad" feelings is to read the Bible. (Any particular verses that come to mind that you wish to share? )

Re: baptism, first of all, baptism is not a requirement for salvation. The person on the cross next to Jesus's, who had repented while up there (not to be confused with that other guy who did not and just wanted Jesus to save his physical life) was saved, despite never being baptized (he didn't exactly have a chance to get dunked under water!).

That said, Jesus does call for us to go through baptism, if possible, as a way of publicly professing your faith and allowing you to testify to what He has done for you. In that sense, I'd say infant baptism and "adult" baptism are very different in purpose: infant baptism, I think, is more of a way for parents to symbolically dedicate themselves to raising their child under God; "adult" baptism is a freely-made choice to profess your own faith in a structured way.

There is a point and place for emotions to be involved, but as a basis, that is very dangerous. As Mark Lowry says, "If you have to feel good to be saved, you aren't going to be saved most of the time." Salvation is an identity and emotions can change on a minute by minute basis. There will be joy, there will be sadness, there will be anger, there will be dark moments, there will be mountain tops, there will be everything. Emotions do play a role, but not a dominate one.

Baptism: stardf basically stated my position. Infant baptism is not a sign of salvation but a sign of dedication to raising the child in the ways of the Lord. Baptism is not a requirement for salvation but is one of the first things a Christian ought to do as a public profession of his/her faith. I fully support baptism, not as a piece of the salvation process, but as a piece of the sanctification process.

In that sense, I'd say infant baptism and "adult" baptism are very different in purpose: infant baptism, I think, is more of a way for parents to symbolically dedicate themselves to raising their child under God; "adult" baptism is a freely-made choice to profess your own faith in a structured way.

If this Presbyterian can address this: in my own (reformed) tradition, baptism is about entrance into the Covenant community. Therefore, for traditions like my own, which have this view of covenant, we baptize infants because we believe that even a child is welcome in the Kingdom of Heaven, and so we baptize an infant into the community of faith. Similarly, an adult who comes to faith and has not been baptized has this opportunity to come forward and profess faith and be received into the covenant community.

Incidentally, this is why in traditional church architecture, the baptismal font was placed near the entrance to the church.

TBG

Being raised a Lutheran (I no longer consider myself one), baptism isn't the same thing as being saved. It's looked as more of a required physical thing. Infant baptism is done in case the child chooses to stay in the Christian faith when he/she is older. Confirmation is more about being saved and by that time, baptism is already done and "out of the way".

Again, not what I believe, just something from a different perspective.

Hmm... Thanks for the thoughts.

One thing about the man on the cross though. I wonder if, because, there was no possible way to get baptised, he was exempt. It wouldn't (I think!) be a sin for me to not save someone if they were choking half-way across the world. However, if baptism is fully accessible to you, would it be a heinous (unforgivable?) crime not to do it?

However, if baptism is fully accessible to you, would it be a heinous (unforgivable?) crime not to do it?

No. You would be in sin, but it's not unforgivable. Only blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgiveable.

TBG

No it wouldn't. What about all the believers in the underground church in China who might be arrested or killed for getting baptized? Remember, you can be saved and other people not know it (in this case, this is a good thing). But it's hard to be baptized and not have other people know it. There is only one unforgivable sin and that's blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Would not getting baptized be a sin? Not any more than a multitude of other sins. One thing baptism does do is make you accountable to the believers who witnessed it. You are making a public statement to follow Christ and submitting to the authority of Christ. So when you mess up, you have someone to get on your case for it. Good food for thought.

Only blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgiveable.

What about suicide? Some people say that a Christian who commits suicide won't go to Heaven. What is the basis for that, and is it true?

Also, what exactly counts as "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit"? And can a Christian commit it?

~Riella

Only blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgiveable.

What about suicide? Some people say that a Christian who commits suicide won't go to Heaven. What is the basis for that, and is it true?

~Riella

I would say that a person who commits suicide is someone who has lost all hope, including hope in God. To be a Christian is to value life, it is a fundamental. Suicide is a way of saying you don't value the life that God has given you and you don't trust that your life has a purpose.

Suicide is a very tragic sin, but it is not the unpardonable sin. Even Christians can become so oppressed that they do give up on hope and life. My understanding of the unpardonable sin is rejection of the free gift of life from Jesus Christ. Can a Christian commit the unpardonable sin? I don't believe so.

1 Corinthians 12:3 says, "No one can say, 'Jesus, be cursed' if they are living by the Holy Spirit. And no one can call Jesus as Lord except by the Holy Spirit."

A Christian has the Holy Spirit living in them. The Holy Spirit will not allow a Christian to truly deny Jesus. And a very good sign that someone is a Christian is if they call Jesus their personal Lord and Savior. That will make you think.

What about suicide? Some people say that a Christian who commits suicide won't go to Heaven. What is the basis for that, and is it true?

I see no basis for this in Scripture, therefore it seems that the sin is forgiveable. Christians can be depressed just like anyone else and make terrible mistakes. However, we're saved by grace, not by what we do or don't do.

Suicide is a way of saying you don't value the life that God has given you and you don't trust that your life has a purpose.

But we can say this of every sin. When I sin, I tell God that I don't value the new life that He has given me, yet He forgives me even this.

The reason why some Christians historically have thought suicide to be unforgiveable is that they held a view of sin where in order to be forgiven, one had to go and confess and then do penance. Thus, if you committed suicide, you had no way of confessing or doing penance. This goes against the idea that forgiveness is because of the work of Christ. Indeed, this mentality nearly drove Martin Luther insane before he discovered the Gospel.

TBG

What of Judas Iscariot then? He obviously felt terrible remorse for what he had done and killed himself because of it. Sometimes I feel rather bad for him when I think on the subject, and I hope that at the end maybe he understood. It would be horrific to be in his shoes.