The Old Maid, thank you for your informative post.

So far my only personal experience with fasting has been as a young teenager with the 30 hour famine through World Vision. My youth group would get sponsors and then spend 30 hours together bowling, watching movies, playing games, praying and not eating. Then when the 30 hours were up, our youth group leader would sign our forms that we had done it and we would have a big meal together. It was generally a fun time and a challenge. That first meal afterwards is amazing.
http://www.30hourfamine.org/en/about/what-is-the-famine

I think my motivations then for it were 1. The social interactions and bonding with the other kids, going through something challenging. 2. I wanted to help feed the hungry.

I think now if I were to fast, it would be to seek out a greater connection with God. Food can be a distraction. At my church, when it gets to be 12:30 and enticing smells are wafting from the sanctuary kitchen, it can grow difficult to concentrate on the sermon and very easy to think about what is for lunch. So going for a set period of time without food, could be a way to discipline myself, paying less attention to my physical needs and to focus on God.

One thing I don't like that people do about fasting is the big feast right before or right after. It seems to be that it defeats the purpose of it. This is what has become of Mardi Gras. For Catholics, Ash Wednesday begins a 40-day fast of meats, fats, and other stuff in anticipation of Resurrection Sunday. So the day before, Mardi Gras, they use it all up so it doesn't go to waste. But now it has become a big party night so the next day they can go sober up for the 40-days. It reminds me of Romans 6:1 where Paul asks us if we should sin more so grace can abound more. Pauls says we should not.

For me, if I am going to fast, I am going to go about my regular routine leading right up to the fast and when I come out of it, I'm going to go right back into my routine. I'm not going to feast and party going into it or coming out of it. Maybe not everyone can do it that way, but that is my conviction about it.

And fasting does not have to be food. My dad cannot do the 40-day fast for physical reasons. He is 60 and his metabolism still competes with an everyday teenage. After 2 days of not eating or eating very little, he can barely get out of bed. So fasting can be from TV, internet, video games, texting, or anything in particular that tends to take our time away from God or distract us from focusing on him.

During fasting, what do you do to get closer to God during that time? Just pray and read the Bible?

I've tried doing that, but I ran out of things to pray about, and I could only sit and read for so long... :/ It ended up not really helping, because most of the day I just sat there, wondering what to do.

*is apparently clueless on how to do this sort of thing*

~Riella

Poking my nose in here for just a moment.

Ithilwen. I have always understood that when fasting one needn't always be in prayer, or doing something "holy". Looking into Matthew 6, I believe we are to go about our business. Pray, certanly. But also attend your regular chores, so long as you also keep in mind your health. Keep hydrated on a hot day, and don't over exert your body.

Okay, here's something I've been mulling over lately.

In Genesis 1, God makes humans in His image (male and female). I've wondered what exactly does it mean to be made in God's image. Clearly, this is a trait unique to humans compared to the other animals He created, so what truly is the difference between human and animal?

I think that, in Genesis 2, there is the answer:

18Then the LORD God said, "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him." 19 Now out of the ground the LORD God had formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name. 20The man gave names to all livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper fit for him.

We all know what happens next: God pulls off the ultimate matchmaking operation (literally, complete with ribcage surgery!) and the rest is history.

But I think there is something else that God shows us here, about the fundamental difference between humans and animals: namely, that animals cannot be a helper fit for us. That doesn't mean animals can't help us, both practically and emotionally, but at a very spiritual level--a level meant to bring us closer to God's likeness--only another human can be our helper.

Furthermore, humans need someone to be in that role. God was not concerned about animals being "alone": sure, there needed to be other animals for reproduction and other purposes, but there was no sense in which animals needed a "helper". God, however, outright says that for man to be alone is "not good"--and amidst all the "good" God was creating, this is the only time during the whole creation process God decided something to be "not good"!

Thus, humans can be distinguished from animals by both the capability and the need of being in relationship with other humans.

Now, would I be crazy to say that this is what it means to be made in God's image? That being in relationship, not just with God but also with each other (and not just marriage, though that has a particularly special place as representing the relationship of Christ with the Church), that "loving your neighbor as yourself", isn't just a means to get closer to the likeness of God, but is in fact the likeness of God in itself? I mean, I have a hard time believing that "God is love" is nothing more than a way to command us to love, and not also insight into the very identity of God.

Furthermore, the fact that God made His image "male and female" is also a big part of all this. It seems that the differing dynamics that opposite genders bring into relationships (and not just marriage) and the interaction of such dynamics is also key in being the image of God.

Any thoughts on this?

I used to believe that being made in His "image" meant that not only were our souls/spirits relatively the same but also our physical forms. After all, "image" is a purely visual-oriented word. But it's one of those things we won't have an answer to until we get there.

About the best way I have ever heard it explained about being in "God's image" is this.
-We have a mind that makes decisions of what the body will do.
-We have a physical body that is controlled, (does the will of) the mind. Just as Our Lord could only do the will of The Father.
-We have a soul which is in one respect our Power source if you will. Without it we do not live. Just as any mention of the Holy Spirit was dealing with a manafestation of His power.
How is that?

To be honest, I think that explanation is rather incomplete.

- There's mention of a "mind", but what exactly does that mind consist of? The problem here is that most people will think of the intellectual, rational mind, ignoring the fact that we make many decisions based on our emotions. (The real problem is that many people try to portray our emotions as somehow "sub-spiritual" and somehow invalid because they can vary so much and/or are led by deceitful desires. This is all despite the fact that God and Jesus express many emotions themselves.)

- There's mention of a physical body, but does it really only "do the will of the mind"? (Especially considering that "the mind", i.e. our brain, is very much a physical part of the body and is subject to physical effects, particularly hormones.) I think there's a very carnal aspect to our beings that most Christians like to ignore, and that this aspect is really no less a part of the image of God as anything else. (Remember, Jesus experienced such physical aspects as pain, hunger, and fatigue.)

- There's no mention of any relational aspect of ourselves. This is what I was trying to get at with my post, that there's a relational aspect to being made in the image of God. And unfortunately, there's been an extent to which some Christians try to write off this aspect as unimportant, saying that focusing on relationships is "humanistic" and "the only relationship you need is with God". (Remember, God and Jesus have a "father-son" relationship, and Jesus himself made many close relationships with other people.)

As an addendum, I think we have to be careful not to over-prioritize the spiritual aspects of ourselves and our relationship with God, devaluing our physical, intellectual, emotional, and social aspects in the process. This kind of "overspiritualization" causes much destruction in people's lives.

I personally don't see what good comes of fasts. I don not believe in them in the very least. I never understood them, nor do I think I ever will.

Then you may not understand that at present it is Ramadan in the Muslim world. Apparently followers of Islam have to fast during the day up until August 31st or when the next New Moon is. That is to say, they fast during the daytime and eat after sunset and before sunrise.

Unlike Christians in Lent they do not have to give up things they might enjoy such as desserts or other sweeties. Even meat is acceptable so long as it is halal. But I think it would be a bit harsh to have even able-bodied people unable to take in even water on very hot days, especially as the bulk of the Islamic world is in places with rather hot summer temperatures.

To an extent I agree with you. But then there are other sorts of fasts, which are not connected to religion, even indirectly. Such as not having enough food in a time of famine. Or during some sort of emergency. There is also the physical and emotional reaction to bereavment. At such times I found myself quite unable to eat or enjoy food. But I had an unaccountable craving to put mustard on everything.

As for what is meant by being in God's image, I have always thought that it means that humans can think, understand, talk, listen and sympathise. Or not. Just as God can and does. Just my two 5 cent pieces worth.

As for being made in God's image, God is Father, Son, and Spirit. Man is body, soul, and spirit. Animals have bodies and souls, but not spirits. Here is the differences between them.

The body is the physical manifestation. Through the body we have the five senses: touch, taste, smell, hearing, and sight. I expect when we recieve our glorified bodies after the End Times these senses will be greatly enhansed from what we have today.

The soul consists of our mind, our will, and our emotions.

The spirit consists of our fuctions of intuition, conscious, and communion. Ever get that sense where you know something you normally would not? That's the spirit's function of intuition. When you have a close friend where you can tell what the other is thinking without saying a word or barely looking at each other...that's the spirit's fuction of communion with each other. And since God is a spirit, that is how he communicates with us and visa versa.

Does that help?

I think that fasting can mean different things at different times. Although various churches offer different guidelines and reasonings for it.

For me it meant something different when I was 12 and fasting with my youth group for the 30 hours, to when I was 17 and journaling on giving up chocolate for lent in order to fullfill a class assignment, to would it would mean now. My faith in God has deepened and grown and so my reasons would be different.

I just read an account of 3 girls who as part of a trip around the world take a yoga course in India. During their time there they spend 4 hours a day meditating and 4 hours a day of yoga. They also are expected to give up meat, dairy, caffeine, alcohol and even garlic and onions. They eat twice a day, rice and lentils with fruit and vegetables and weak tea. All three girls at different times have emotional break-downs. At one point one of the girls asks a person in charge about why they have to give up so much and the teacher's response was along the lines of, "You can't appreciate something fully, when you are afraid of losing it." The idea was that without discipline, the fear of losing material comforts, can drive a person to make unethical and even irrational decisions. ("The Lost Girls." by Jennifer Baggett, Holly Corbett, & Amanda Pressner)

This book was a view of eastern religions from the perspective of 3 worldly nonbelievers. But I thought it was of value. I think a purpose of fasting could be to strengthen one's morals. So that in a situation where one felt she could make a moral decision but go without luxuries or even regular meals, that one could put her conscience above her appetite.

Imposing these restrictions on oneself for a set amount of time, could be empowering and strengthening of one's moral resolve because a faster knows that they have gone without this thing before and could do it again. It eliminates idols in our lives to some extent.

I just read an account of 3 girls who as part of a trip around the world take a yoga course in India. During their time there they spend 4 hours a day meditating and 4 hours a day of yoga. They also are expected to give up meat, dairy, caffeine, alcohol and even garlic and onions. They eat twice a day, rice and lentils with fruit and vegetables and weak tea.

India is not a place noted for conspicuous over consumption of meat and dairy products in any case. There is still a lot of dire poverty there. I'd be more concerned about the girls having to give up onions and garlic, since both items add nourishment and antiseptic properties to the eater's diet. At least garlic and onion breath keep others away, I guess. I can also see how fasting in such a manner can make people more appreciative of what they do have at their disposal and more satisfied with a simpler, less expensive & possibly, a more nourishing, diet.

I understand that the Catholic rules for Lent are giving up meat on Wednesdays and Fridays, no desserts and abstaining from things like alcohol and chocolate. Giving up meat on Wednesdays and Fridays plus desserts isn't all that hard. But fasting can be taken to excess. Whilst browsing in one of Melbourne's book markets, I picked up a biography of Catherine of Aragon, whose husband, Henry VIII, famously tried to annul their marriage so that he could marry the winsome Anne Boleyn, and who famously broke away from Rome, after which the Anglican church became established.

The author of this biography who followed closely her upbringing in a very religious household - Isabella the Catholic, was her mother - noted that after the death of Henry's older brother, Arthur, that Catherine did indulge in rather too many fasts, being unhappy and trapped in England whilst Henry VII and her own father Ferdinand, haggled about her dowry. Catherine of Aragon's fasting may have had consequences. Her fasting too much couldn't have done much for the health of the prospective son and heir she was later unable to produce for that hypocrite Henry VIII. Thus history is made.

Now there is a thought to consider as well. Did an over indulgence in religious fasts in days gone by mask disorders like anorexia, and all the harm that disorder does to the patient, do you think? Fasting once in a while wouldn't hurt, but how much fasting is too much fasting?

I shall go with "however much will cause a violation of the commandment to take care of our bodies as they are a temple for the Holy Spirit".

Also, regarding being made in the image of God: I think the better question to ask is, given what it might mean to be made in the image of God, what should we do about that? How do we let our definitions of this concept affect how we live? Do we take care of our bodies instead of trying to "fast" them away? Do we seek relationships instead of trying to isolate ourselves? Do we accept and embrace our emotions, especially "negative" ones like grief and anger, instead of trying to push them aside as somehow unspiritual?

Man is body, soul, and spirit.

I hear this a lot, and it's one of those things that sounds kinda smart -- but not long ago I found out it's without Scriptural support. Seems better to say only that man is body and soul/spirit. The Biblical terms and definitions for the latter two are just about indistinguishable.

Seems I've very likely posted about this before ... from Wayne Grudem's Systematic Theology, I think. It's not a hugely vital issue — but taking the "trichotomy" of human nature can lead to wrong notions and accidental Gnosticism (assuming only your "spirit" communes with God, etc).

waggawerewolf27, I didn't understand the reasoning behind the onion and garlic restriction. But I think a person could get do a diet like this for a month without hurting their body. I agree with you about the possible connections between fasting and anorexia in history. There's a point where its just hurting one's body and not helping one's spiritual life anymore.

On the topic of man being made in God's image. I think its a claim of God's authority. In a society where many of the religions involved humans carving images of their gods out of stone or wood and worshiping those, the idea of worshiping a God who hard formed man out of His own likeness must have been pretty shocking. Its turning the system around on its head.

"Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.' So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them." (Genesis 1:26-27 NIV).

Besides being a meta-claim towards God's dominion and agency. I think it also has to do with man's responsibility as rulers of the animals. Also the emphasis on male and female might have to do with our capacity to love and to form family bonds.