Trying this again. Somehow erased everything when hitting preview. Guess it just does not like me.
Anyway, here goes. God allows evil to happen, but for a reason. Teaching a lesson, bringing someone back to him, etc.
Read Isaiah 47. He tells the Babylonians that the reason He allowed them to invade Israel was for His peoples great sin. Now because of babylon's boasting they get to be slapped upside the head too.
In Romans 1 God said he "gave them over" to their sinful, depraved minds.

There are other verses where God, knowing in advance of peoples acts, and giving them fair warning, simply backs up what He said. How many time in Exoduse through Deut. does He say "If you do this, I will do that?

Way I see it He knows that we will sin, He allows the consequenses, we can then learn our lesson, and repent. Or continue in our ignorance. Now the latter does not mean that God cannot still use us. He may use our stubborn suffering to show others what happens when we act stupedly.
So the sin/evil are still ours, He has simply allowed it/knew of it because He is able to work it into His will.
Best I can do. Now let's see if this thing likes me today.

Wow. I don't even know where to begin. It took nearly 45 minutes to read 3-4 pages of posts!

Wagga: about that haircut you mentioned. This may seem tiny to you but I agree with TBG that God cares about the little things just as much as the big. If He didn't care, He wouldn't be loving and He wouldn't be God. God wakes me up in the morning. I live and breathe because of Him. He keeps my body functioning every millisecond of the day. He puts food on the table. He puts clothes on my back. I can go on and on.

Anyway, a few months ago I was worrying about where to get a haircut because I'd had so many bad experiences the past year or two. But God provided! I went to a place I'd never been before, called "Hair Dezine." They were still open, even though I didn't know their hours. The woman did exactly what I asked her to do [layered, just below the ears] in maybe 15 minutes. She was fast! My hair looked fantastic! And it cost only $12: shampoo, cut, and style. It had been a year since I had a haircut this good. And it was $5 cheaper than Walmart [a girl there butchered my hair earlier last year].

And what about this? I had been worrying about getting new tires for my car for weeks. They'd lasted 85,000 miles and nearly 9 years. So last October I bought 4 new tires! The price was $329 "out the door" [tires + taxes + disposal fees, etc]. It was the 2nd lowest price I was quoted that month. When I bought them they were only 3 months old. And they have the right tire pressure on them [35psi--same as the recommendation on my car]. The day I bought the tires it was raining, so it was a slow day for the tire people [lol], who were really nice. And I was in and out in 30 minutes. It feels like I'm driving a new car!

And what about this? Last week, I was driving home when I skidded on ice. I tried braking for the car in front of me but nothing happened. To avoid hitting the car I swerved into the opposite lane of traffic [on my right was just a ditch]. Thankfully nothing was in the opposite lane. And I managed to get my car back into my lane. I skidded but hit nothing!

These things may seem small to you but all they tell me is that God is watching out for me ALL THE TIME -- even in the little things! [It also makes me wonder who's praying for me. ] Was it God's will for me to skid? I don't know but I know He protected me. And that's enough.

*NOTE: I posted these events in the "place for praises" thread.

EDIT: Jan 12
Wagga, hello again! Guess what? I pray for green lights. I pray for lost items. When I'm on the road, I pray for a good and inexpensive hotel for the night. Why? God cares about me. He's my Father. In Job 38-41, Psalm 104, and parts of psalms 145-147, God says He feeds, takes care of, and watches over every living thing. And that means big and little. But guess what? We are worth more than many sparrows [Luke 12]. God knows what we need, even before we ask. But we're still expected to ask. Why? So God can demonstrate to us our need for and dependence on Him, so we can draw closer to God. Psalm 147:4, Isaiah 40 God names and counts the stars. You think He doesn't do the same with us? God knows our names even before we're born. He fashioned us, unique, in the womb. The hairs of our heads are numbered [Luke 12]. God cares about us! Who wants a God who doesn't?! Matthew 17 Jesus supplied tax money for Himself and Peter. Jonah 4 God provided a plant to cover Jonah's head in the heat. 2 Kings 6: God made an axe head swim; it was a borrowed item!

I presume you're a mother. Well, "if ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask Him?" [Matthew 7:11 ... read 7:7-11]

Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing? Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature? So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?
Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

No, I fail to see how God would just as concerned about something as trivial as a haircut than the welfare of one's loved ones, let alone about the continuing drought and scorching temperatures that afflict this part of the world.

I'm glad for you that you got a nice haircut, 220CT, just as I'm glad for my usual hairdresser that she had a mildly prosperous afternoon, after all. $28A for 10 min work isn't really that bad. But really no. I don't think a good, kind, God would want anything to do with fashion police. All you see or hear in the Bible about what God wants from women is what you see or hear about all other ancient civilizations, from the Assyrians down, is advice to women to cover up, be modest, be inconspicuous, be not talked about, be silent.

Plus criticism of women who wear too much jewellery, nice clothes, any jewellery at all, anything or everything they ever do that looks remotely appealing, or merely tidy. Sometimes I wonder why God created women at all, if men are expected to see them as good little pieces of property.

In this heat, a swimming costume is about as modest as it gets at home. By the way, I read somewhere that the dreaded Burqa was originally a Persian Christian fashion idea.

Wagga, your response shocked me so much that I started trembling and crying. How could you think God cares so little about you as not to care about a haircut? It has nothing to do with fashion police. Nothing. It is God in His wonderful providence daily watching over you. God provides the food and drink on your table, the clothes on your back, the shoes on your feet, and the roof over your head. God cares, wagga. He cares, yes even about a haircut. He made the female gender for a reason. He made you a woman for a reason. You actually think God cares so little about women?! You don't know God at all.

"All you see or hear in the Bible about what God wants from women is ... to cover up, be modest" ... Your judgment of what God desires from us as women is also grossly screwed up. God wants men AND women to cover up! Modesty is a virtue, not a vice! Can you imagine Jesus in skimpy clothing on a beach? I can't!

"Be inconspicuous, be not talked about, be silent" ... when was the last time you read Genesis 16 and 18 [Sarah, Hagar]? Genesis 25 [Rebekah]? Joshua 2 [Rahab]? Judges 4 [Deborah was a judge of all Israel!]? Ruth? 1 Samuel 2 [Hannah]? 1 Samuel 25 [Abigail]? Esther? When was the last time you read the four gospels?!

"Sometimes I wonder why God created women at all, if men are expected to see them as good little pieces of property" ... God didn't make us the property of men. That is the result of man's sinful nature.

Eve was not taken out of Adam's head to top him, neither out of his feet to be trampled on by him, but out of his side to be equal with him, under his arm to be protected by him, and near his heart to be loved by him.

In this heat, a swimming costume is about as modest as it gets at home. By the way, I read somewhere that the dreaded Burqa was originally a Persian Christian fashion idea.

Actually, it was Greek in origin and therefore used throughout the Greek-speaking world. When most of the Greek world was conquered by Islam, the conquerors adopted much of the local culture, including the burqa.

Modesty is not so much a set of rules as it is an attitude--how it applies will vary based on cultural norms (ie: it will look different in Africa, America, and the Middle East). What will be the same is the attitude--a consciousness of what others perceive and what tempts. It's fine to dress attractively as long as one isn't dressing provocatively.

No, I fail to see how God would just as concerned about something as trivial as a haircut than the welfare of one's loved ones, let alone about the continuing drought and scorching temperatures that afflict this part of the world.

The point is not to what degree God cares, but simply that He does care. Without His sustenance, you would not survive a fraction of a second. He cares about every insignificant detail of our lives. The problem here is that your God is too small--you underestimate the fact that God knows all, arranges all, and cares about all.

Again, as Kuyper said, "There is no square inch of all creation of which Christ has not said, 'This is mine.'"

TBG

Does God care for the little details as well as the big ones? Good question but simply answered. In Matthew 6, Jesus tells us not to worry about the little details. God takes care of the flowers, sparrows (whose value was worth less then a few pennies to the culture) with such detail, and then tells us how much more valuable we are than them. Jesus later tells us that every one of the hairs on our heads is numbered. But that is actually a mis-translation. The actual translation is that every hair on our head is named. It is the same phrase that is used with God naming the stars.

How does this compare with all the natural disasters taking place? We have to remember that we live in a cursed world due to sin. God can easily stop all the natural disasters and because of our image of him being love (God is Love) we tend to blame him when things go wrong. But a very common misconception about God is this. We tend to think because God is Love, therefore God=Love. This is wrong. Love != (not equal) God. God has other attributes like Justice and life principles such as 'A man reaps what he sows'.

God is Merciful and full of Grace, but he will not be mocked. When a farmer sows his seed, he expects to reap what he sows, more than he sows, and it will take place later than when he sowed it. The same is true for us for both good and ill. When things go bad, sometimes it is the fruit of what we've done individually or as a people. But other times things simply happen, and Jesus' response to that wasn't about sin. His response was unless you repent, you will be no different. Sometimes bad things happen to wake us up, to teach us a lesson, or simply to see God move. It is also interesting to note that God's Kingdom advances the most through tragedy.

We also must remember that God is running the universe and not us. Just because things don't go the way we'd expect them to, doesn't mean God doesn't care. We also tend to misunderstand Mercy and Grace as well. Mercy is withholding that which we deserve. Mercy goes deeper than just forgiveness of sin. It is also the little things. The 'small sins' that we'd prefer to just pass off are included. Yes, in the overall picture, God views the 'small sins' the same as the 'big sins'. But even the small sins have their own consequences besides the big one called 'death'. How often do we see these consequences? Let alone recognize them?

Grace is also misunderstood. Grace is reception of something undeserved. The truth of the matter is we have nothing that we actually own. You can talk about your money, your possessions, your job, and even your family. But it was the grace of God that not only put you in a position where you could get that, but also what has allowed you to keep it. This is what Paul was talking about when God told him "My grace is sufficient for you." But my pastor in the past two weeks has put Grace in a new light. Not disregarding what we already know about it, see how this fits. "Grace is not the means to get what we want, but the power to do what we ought." This can go a long ways into the idea of stewardship. All that we have now will not follow us for long. Eventually it will go on to other hands or be lost forever. That is why Jesus told us to store us treasures in heaven: things that won't be lost.

So it is very clear from the Bible that God is a God that not only runs the entire picture; he is also a very personal God who deals in the small details as well as the big. But God also doesn't do things the way we expect them and sometimes he must take things away from us to do things in us that need to be done. We know he works all things for the good of those who love him and are called according to his purpose. Note that it doesn't say everyone. Who gets the benefits and who doesn't is really up to God. Job got benefits for a while, then lost them, but then got them again. Paul had them for a while, then lost them. God is running the universe, and it is by his grace that we actually get to see and be a part of it.

FencerforJesus, please take a bow! Because for once I can agree with you. Today's news about Haiti sounds terrible. However I am sure those poor people (including some visiting Australians) were in that predicament because Haiti is a poor country, whose building codes may still need looking at, even if they have recovered from the tyranny, graft and exploitation of the likes of Papa Doc Duvalier and Baby Doc Duvalier. Earthquakes happen all the time, as a fact of living on Planet Earth. I wouldn't blame God for such catastrophes.

Wagga, your response shocked me so much that I started trembling and crying. How could you think God cares so little about you as not to care about a haircut? It has nothing to do with fashion police. Nothing.

Crying over a haircut? Especially when it is someone else's, and doesn't affect you personally? My Goodness! In days gone by I'd have received a hiding to give me something to cry about.

Let me put it this way. Of course one has to wash, do one's hair, have a shave, a shower and whatever else as a routine part of getting ready for the day's doings, and making one presentable. Usually work, and if one is lucky, a bit of romance as well. These are normal things which are obligatory if one is to assimilate into society and feel accepted. People tend to shun unwashed, unclean 'others' , don't they? And who wants to pong unpleasantly? Or contract a disease, or even be infested with fleas! . Woof! Woof!

A haircut falls into the same bracket. Especially as in my case. If I had to make an appointment later on, to have a lot more done to my less than glamorous looks, I would have been rather more pleased. There are good reasons why I would have had a haircut, or any sort of hairdressing job, though. Overgrown hair looks untidy, feels unpleasantly hot, is harder to keep under control, and tends to shaggily fall in my eyes. And I care about my eyes, my vision and how to protect these things a great deal. Seriously, if I fail to look after myself, that is my decision, and I must face the consequences, and not blame it on God, for not nagging me about my scruffy ways.

It is God in His wonderful providence daily watching over you. God provides the food and drink on your table, the clothes on your back, the shoes on your feet, and the roof over your head.

Er sorry, I'm a wage slave and the clothes on my back, the shoes on my feet and the roof over my head have all been paid for by my earnings and those of my husband before his retirement, believe it or not. We both worked hard for what we have, and if we, and in particular, myself, weren't prepared to work hard, we would not have anything at all, including the NarniaWeb membership.

On the other hand, I'm ever so glad God helped me to get into a suitable job, which really is a miracle. Especially as His local representative tended to think that I shouldn't have been worried about a career, or looking for work, however dire our circumstances were at the time. Apparently the upbringing and education of our children, and how it was all to be paid for, wasn't that priest's concern.

Er sorry, I'm a wage slave and the clothes on my back, the shoes on my feet and the roof over my head have all been paid for by my earnings and those of my husband before his retirement, believe it or not. We both worked hard for what we have, and if we, and in particular, myself, weren't prepared to work hard, we would not have anything at all, including the NarniaWeb membership.

The Lord has given and the Lord can take away--if He does, can you complain? Everything you are, everything you have is because of His provision and grace. I know people, Godly faithful people, who through no laziness or fault of their own have had all of those things taken away from them. Why? Because God is teaching them to trust Him and not themselves. Why thank God for food at dinner? Because it really is His provision that put it there.

So, does God cause natural disasters? I think so. Is it harsh or unjust of Him to do so? No. What did Jesus say when people told Him of natural and man-made disasters? He said, "repent lest the same happen to you." We all fall under the just judgment of God and it is by His grace alone that we are not sent to Hell this minute.

TBG

Yes one day soon I'll be expected to retire, I'm sure. But that is the law of the land, not God. As Jesus said, "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's".

Yes one day, maybe sooner, I'll be too ill to work. Or worse. Or maybe the job will fold up. As you say, in that case, the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away, and my days would be numbered anyway.

But I wouldn't blame God for my own folly in not taking more care of myself. And I wouldn't blame God for natural disasters that are directly related to the very tectonic activity that makes Earth such a wonderful place, a place where it is possible for life to happen.

Given that geologically, Earth is generally seismically active, eg earthquakes or volcano eruptions, shouldn't Man do more to be prepared for such occurrences? There was an earthquake in California a few days ago. But, I understand, it was nowhere near as devastating as the Haiti one, very likely because builders in California have been used to taking the possibilities of earthquakes into account. Haiti is a very poor country which hasn't had an earthquake for something like 200 years, and so wasn't expecting it. I'm sure that those people are no more sinners than is the case in California.

It isn't fair to see natural disasters as a judgement on the sinful, when high death tolls are clearly related to mismanagement.

Crying over a haircut? Especially when it is someone else's, and doesn't affect you personally? My Goodness! In days gone by I'd have received a hiding to give me something to cry about.

You misunderstood me. I wasn't crying over your haircut, but over the underlying attitude behind it ... namely that you apparently believe that in the eyes of God you're a second-class citizen, simply because you're a woman. That is a lie from the devil. Why trust or believe in a God [or His Word] whom you don't even think really loves you for who you are? That's your problem, isn't it? If not, please correct me. But I pray God makes you see that you are loved for who you are, that He formed the unique you in the womb and knows everything about you [even before you were conceived!] -- your ancestors and descendants, your past present and future, your name and location, the names [thank you, Fencer] of the hairs on your head, the number of cells in your body, the amount of your paycheck ... I can go on and on. God is watching over you every second of every day. I pray God makes you see and embrace godly womanhood.

I'm a wage slave and the clothes on my back, the shoes on my feet and the roof over my head have all been paid for by my earnings and those of my husband before his retirement, believe it or not.

Nothing you have or own belongs to you, not your "earnings" ... not even your body and soul [this occurred to me this morning]. It all belongs to God. Why? He gave it all to you. They’re literally gifts. God also gave you the ability to get an education and go to work. He provided the money you used to pay for bills and physical needs. Your money doesn't belong to you. Period. It belongs to God.

Without His sustenance, you would not survive a fraction of a second. He cares about every insignificant detail of our lives. The problem here is that your God is too small--you underestimate the fact that God knows all, arranges all, and cares about all. ... Everything you are, everything you have is because of His provision and grace. I know people, Godly faithful people, who through no laziness or fault of their own have had all of those things taken away from them. Why? Because God is teaching them to trust Him and not themselves. Why thank God for food at dinner? Because it really is His provision that put it there.

Amen! I know what it is to do without. Many do, as even wagga testified. It’s when we do without that we recognize God’s provision and thank Him for everything. Thankfulness is next to godliness.

wagga, you said you "wouldn't blame God for such catastrophes" like the Haiti earthquake. I'm with TBG. Who would you blame? Not man or the devil! God controls every aspect of nature, all the time. If He didn't, He wouldn't be God. It’s not that we blame Him for such a catastrophe. We just recognize the source, the One who allowed it to happen. And why did He? 1. Wake up sinners. 2. Sanctify the saved.

*peeks in*

Perhaps part of the disagreement here is a matter of semantics or perspective...much like the issue of God's sovereignty and man's responsiblity for his actions.

God is certainly the provider of all good things (James 1:17), and we should be grateful for them all - yet we have responsibility too.

For example, I lost my job in a recent corporate reorganization. My next job, when it comes, will be from God and I'll be grateful for it. But I have a responsibility too, to conduct a job search to find that position. It's not too likely it'll drop into my lap if I sit around doing nothing -though I understand stranger things have happened.

The same can be said for food, housing, clothing, etc...they come from God but it's not unreasonable for us to seek them, and then receive them in gratitude.

I'm sure that those people are no more sinners than is the case in California.

Right--they no more deserve God's grace than you or I do .

So that, thus it is that natural men are held in the hand of God, over the pit of hell; they have deserved the fiery pit, and are already sentenced to it; and God is dreadfully provoked, his anger is as great towards them as to those that are actually suffering the executions of the fierceness of his wrath in hell, and they have done nothing in the least to appease or abate that anger, neither is God in the least bound by any promise to hold them up one moment . . .

You probably are not sensible of this; you find you are kept out of hell, but do not see the hand of God in it; but look at other things, as the good state of your bodily constitution, your care of your own life, and the means you use for your own preservation. But indeed these things are nothing; if God should withdraw his hand, they would avail no more to keep you from falling, than the thin air to hold up a person that is suspended in it. . . .

Therefore, let every one that is out of Christ, now awake and fly from the wrath to come. The wrath of Almighty God is now undoubtedly hanging over a great part of this congregation. Let every one fly out of Sodom: "Haste and escape for your lives, look not behind you, escape to the mountain, lest you be consumed."

This is not to say that we should not take care for the future or be irresponsible, just that God may take it all away. God may at any time take all away, whether by natural disaster or car accident or financial crisis--it is His grace alone that sustains us and we cannot justly complain if it is taken away.

If I say that God is responsible for natural disaster, it must be understood that I do not blame Him for it because blame implies guilt and God cannot sin. If God ordains a hurricane or earthquake, then it must be just. For the unregenerate it is judgment, for the regenerate it is a means for sanctification (or even of bringing a saint to glory) but in no case is God to be blamed because God is righteous, faithful, and just.

Again, remember Job: he brought a complaint against God and God rebuked Him, and yet was gracious. God gave no answers: He gave Himself.

TBG

The God of the Andromeda Galaxy is also the God of the electron. The God of the infinitely large is also the God of the infinitely small. But I would argue that there is a difference between the God of the small and the "God of the petty."

For example -- and we have all had this experience, including myself -- let us say that someone gets a great haircut. This is pleasing to the person. Let us say that on another day, the same person gets a bad haircut, making one look like unto one who has been whupped with an Ugly stick. This is distressing to the person. But is it small or is it petty? Should we think that God, creator of all that is, seen and unseen, made a special effort to make us look handsome one day and scare-the-baby another day? Or does God simply allow it? To what extent does God micromanage our lives -- and what are the implications?

Friend-of-a-friend true story for a second example: Jane Friend cannot find her car keys and will be late to work. Jill Friend tells her, "it's God's will. You should thank Him for your lost car keys and search for the message and the meaning." Annoyed, Jane tells Jill, "I would be more thankful if He gave me a friend who would stop pontificating and help me search for the keys." Now also annoyed, Jill departs without helping Jane, trailing glories of "I'll pray for you." Post-script: some days later, Jill exults that God "gave" her a good parking space. Jane replies that maybe God gave Jill the brains to go at an off-peak hour when there were more parking spaces. More huffiness ensues. Post-post-script: The next day Jill is late because "The devil" thwarted her quest for a parking space. Jane replies that Jill should search for the message and the meaning in God letting her be late and then blaming it on the devil. That reply we shall not print, aside from commenting that 1) One called the other a weak Christian; 2) the other called the other a less-than-Christian; and 3) the whole exchange is dripping with Petty. (It also credits the devil with an awful lot of power in Jill's life, doesn't it?)

Small, on the other hand, is Betsie Ten Boom praying, "Thank you for the lice." Corrie Ten Boom thought this was just too much. They had been dragged to a concentration camp, and now Betsie was thanking God for the fleas and lice that made them suffer by day and by night? Well, yes. Eventually Corrie realized that the Nazis refused to go into the Ten Booms' barracks because of the bugs. It gave the prisoners the privacy to worship and pray together. So in the midst of death -- including Betsie's; she perished very quickly -- they had this solitary comfort. "Thank you for the bugs." That's the God of the small.

I believe God did not cause the quake in Haiti but rather did not prevent it. I believe that when people ask, "When will God help?" that the answer is "God sent us." I also believe that a person who believes that God did cause the quake, as opposed to simply not preventing it, should think about saying it to a Haitian's face. And I'm not proposing that this should be done for the purpose of the speaker getting a new nose. It's more about "he jests at scars who never felt a wound." It's a conversation some people simply need to have. Every time there's a disaster we hear smarmy remarks about it from people who live very safe lives. Quite aside from the fact that I have a hard time picturing the Jesus of the Gospels smiting Haitian orphanages, I'd venture that if God was ever to send a disaster at sinners, then I'd think God would have better aim. (See also: Katrina, Boxing Day.)

When Jesus' friends told him, "Those guys who died in that construction accident -- did they sin?", Jesus told them, "Do you really think they were worse sinners than anyone else? What I am trying to tell you is that they didn't know when they would die, and neither do you. Be ready."

...

BTW, 220, when you told wagga "I pray God makes you see and embrace godly womanhood" ... I can think of at least three ways that sounds. 1. That wagga isn't a godly woman. 2. That wagga isn't godly enough. 3. That wagga is not godly enough in your opinion. These are not the same thing. I don't have a horse in this race, so to speak, but I am curious which one you meant, and also what wagga would have to do, say, or be to satisfy you.

And for more general consumption: since money has been mentioned, the Bible has a lot to say about things that clearly happened, but that do not seem to be God's will -- things that were not prevented. The books of Amos, Malachi, and parts of James have some very heated exchanges -- I particularly like "cows of Bashan" -- directed at people who are robbing, discriminating, or defrauding other people with no mention of it being God's will. Far from it: the prophets keep saying, "hey, God wants you to stop that!" If things happened in Bible days because God did not prevent it, why is that a harder concept for us to grasp nowadays? (I'm asking about specific changes in teachings, as opposed to a more rhetorical question.)

Thank you, ever so much TOM. 220CT seems to think I need converting to an anti-evolution point of view, which I'm afraid is not on, if I am to be accepted as I am. Our Primate of Australia, Phillip Aspinall, said in the press that believers in evolution are not to be turned away from church by a clerical insistence on belief in a literal 7 day creation. And I don't see what is wrong with a strong work ethic, either.

Nothing you have or own belongs to you, not your "earnings" ... not even your body and soul [this occurred to me this morning]. It all belongs to God. Why? He gave it all to you. They’re literally gifts. God also gave you the ability to get an education and go to work. He provided the money you used to pay for bills and physical needs. Your money doesn't belong to you. Period. It belongs to God

.

Yes, God does perform miracles, and I agree I have much to be thankful to Him for, including a loving family. I'm still alive for one thing, and I'm able to work, after all, in a good job for which I am qualified, and also that so far I have had a roof over my head. However, if I was to take this quote as literally and as heavy-handed as I fear it is intended, I might find myself wondering to whom I pay the rent, the mortgage, if I bought the house, to whom the renter of my house would pay the rent, and who was responsible for the repairs should anything go wrong. Perhaps if God owns where I live, why isn't His name on the deeds? And who is affected if a thief breaks in, or if the windows are broken?

For example, in a court of law, wouldn't the thief, if caught, be able to argue that he didn't take anything from me, since it isn't mine anyway? How would the Insurers handle such incidents? Deny payment because of an 'Act of God'? I believe there was a film made of one such real life case, which happened in Australia.

Whilst my 'earnings' - after the ATO has taken its proper share - might belong to God, I do hope I am left with a bit of pocket money to pay the bills with. Otherwise I really would be in deep doo doo. And by the way, a good definition of slavery is to work for nothing, unless one is only working on a voluntary basis.

As for the Haitians, given Jesus' strictures about the wealthy and the poor in several parables and teachings, I think they are more deserving of God's grace and mercy than anyone I can think of.

I seriously doubt 220 meant you ought to give up any sense of adult responsibility, wagga. Are you sure you're not reflexively reading an extreme view, which someone claiming to be Biblical told you before, into 220's more-Biblical reminders of gratitude to God and lack of overarching worry about the future because He is running it?

Biblical balance is key here, as stargazer said. And the passages about how God owns everything and how we must trust Him don't in any way deny other passages about strong work ethics, etc. Scripture contains both "do not worry" and the Book of Proverbs, after all.

given Jesus' strictures about the wealthy and the poor in several parables and teachings,

I'm not sure what you mean here, but I have a hunch (please let me know if it's wrong!) that the Virtuous Poor Myth may be a factor. Many people read some kind of more-poor-people-than-rich-people-get-to-heaven meaning into verses such as Matthew 19: 23-26, about rich people and the "camel through the eye of a needle." But a Virtuous Poor meaning is not what Jesus meant at all. I won't go into the reasons why here, but this column and its second part explain further.

As for the Haitians [. . .] I think they are more deserving of God's grace and mercy than anyone I can think of.

Whoa, wagga -- by definition, no one can ever "deserve" God's grace and mercy. We all by our sinful nature deserve little but Hell. That includes me, you, Haitians, Australians, Americans, anyone.

Maybe you didn't mean to imply otherwise. Yet in an age of too much Gospel confusion already, I think it's important to watch our language. We already have enough people who believe (and worse, act) as though they deserve anything from God. It's likely part of the religious hypocrisy you keep citing. Knowing we deserve nothing from Him, and yet He chose to save His people anyway, leads to humility and loving focus on His truth.

Did you catch Black Glove's reference above to the Tower of Siloam? Here is what Jesus said when people asked him about political unrest and a national tragedy.

There were some present at that very time who told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices [a reference to a massacre of Jews carried out by Pilate, the Roman leader]. And he answered them, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered in this way? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”

Luke 13: 1-4

Wow. That's pretty "mean" of Jesus, isn't it? But He's Jesus, and He can say that. And it would be less loving of Him to act as though natural disasters in this world are what we should fear the most, rather than God's just punishment for everyone in the future.

Of course, this does not deny the need to help the poor and suffering in this Old Earth. But relief work, giving to the poor, etc., should be part of a Christian's ministry that is concentrated on eternity, not just the here and now. It would make no sense for Christians only to tend the temporary wounds of a spiritually dead person (Ephesians 1-2).

Remembering that is even more important than believing in a six-day creation. However, a question for thought: how can evolution believers say that death and suffering, as in Haiti, are wrong? Evidently God is okay with it, if He used millions of years of death, bloodshed, extinction and evolution to create the world. One can be a Christian and still accept evolution (or be fuzzy on it), but the result is claiming that death/suffering are not invaders in the world, and approved by God. This is unlike a literal creation believer who accepts the account of Genesis 1-3.

Just yesterday I wrote a review about a great new book by Randy Alcorn called If God is Good. The review, and much more effectively the book itself, addresses the Biblical reasons for why a good God allows suffering. I'd encourage anyone to check it out.